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Some More Cops Who Need to Be Fired


Dan T.
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1 hour ago, TryTheBeal! said:

No matter your age, and I find it highly unlikely the cop knew his age, if you’re rolling through the streets at 2:30 in the morning flashing your piece you are at very high risk to catch a bullet...from a wide variety of sources.

 

Heartbreaking and tragic, but to me this is a gun control issue much more than a policing issue. We are a long, long way from Breonna Taylor here.  And it’s disrespectful to her memory to suggest otherwise.

 

The cop immediately went into life prevention mode after he shot him too. In some cases its hard to put yourself in the officers shoes and understand why they took the actions they took. This is not one of them. 

 

Maybe you can say he shouldn't have chased him. But even then I think you are grasping for reasons to blame the cop. 

 

**** is sad regardless. But i dont blame the cop on this one. 

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15 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

The cop immediately went into life prevention mode after he shot him too. In some cases its hard to put yourself in the officers shoes and understand why they took the actions they took. This is not one of them. 

 

Maybe you can say he shouldn't have chased him. But even then I think you are grasping for reasons to blame the cop. 

 

**** is sad regardless. But i dont blame the cop on this one. 

 

I think this is maybe where better training could have been important.  Rather than yelling stop and show me your hands, maybe yelling stop but don't turn around would have made a difference.

 

If he stops and doesn't turn around, is he shot?  

 

You're chasing a suspect that might have a gun late at night, what do you actually want that person to do and how do you communicate it to them?

 

If you're a cop and haven't thought about that and that isn't part of your training, that's a problem.  And reasonably he did follow the cops instructions.  Stop and show me your hands.

 

(And I seriously doubt stopping and showing the cop his hands with a gun it would have resulted in him not being killed.  I don't believe he got killed because he threw the gun away.)

Edited by PeterMP
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3 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

I think this is maybe where better training could have been important.  Rather than yelling stop and show me your hands, maybe yelling stop but don't turn around would have made a difference.

 

If he stops and doesn't turn around, is he shot?  

 

You're chasing a suspect that might have a gun down late at night, what do you actually want that person to do and how do you communicate it to them?

 

If you're a cop and haven't thought about that and that isn't part of your training, that's a problem.  And reasonably he did follow the cops instructions.  Stop and show me your hands.

 

(And I seriously doubt stopping and showing the cop his hands with a gun it would have resulted in him not being killed.  I don't believe he got killed because he threw the gun away.)

 

Thats a fair point. Unclear instructions seem just as dangerous as anything else in these situations. Stop and dont turn around does seem a bit safer for the police at least. I do wonder how that is received on the other end though.

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2 hours ago, mcsluggo said:

the kid DID have a gun, and he had it in his hand as he started to turn around, in a dark alley, after a chase.   yes, he dropped the gun and was trying to surrender... but it is SO EASY to see how the policeman in that spur of the moment was unsure of that fact.

 

i see your point, but the kid gave up and raised his hands. what was he supposed to do? if he ran, he'd be shot too. it's the cop's job (trained job) to be 100% sure before killing someone. being scared, and especially being "unsure of the situation" is not justification for murdering someone

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Just to add, the cops have to have a reasonable solution to this.  The kid appears to have had problems.  His mother has admitted that he snuck out at night.  He appears to have somehow he ended up on the street at 2:30 in the morning with a gun in his hand.

 

But running from the cops with a gun in your hand shouldn't equate to a death sentence.  And IMO, yes the burden is on the cops to figure it out until larger society is willing to step in and do something (especially many cops are pro-2nd amendment.)

 

(Also in terms of pay, cops are paid pretty well and their retirement is pretty good too.)

 

Edited by PeterMP
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32 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Maybe you can say he shouldn't have chased him.

And if the person then goes on to kill someone(s) with that gun an hour later there would be outrage the cops didn’t do their job. 
 

to me the real question is why is someone this young running around at 2:30 am with a gun?

 

im sure there’s a lot of reasons. Some we can’t control. But one we can, should we choose to, is how we can help communities suffering socioeconomically (kids see no way out and turn to gangs/guns, parents work multiple jobs to pay the bills so they aren’t around as much as they should be, etc) and access to guns. 
 

 

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Running from the cops with a gun should not equate to a death sentence.  If running with a gun from a cop my options are:

 

1.  Out run the cop.

2.  Shoot the cop

3.  Be shot by the cop.

 

That isn't good for anybody.

 

On another front, the cop shoot at the Tennessee school shooting wasn't shot by the student.  They aren't saying whether he shot himself or was shot by another cop.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/corrected-investigators-find-officer-wounded-in-tennessee-school-shooting-not-shot-by-students-gun/ar-BB1fFzv1

 

https://www.usatoday.com/news/

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/latest-updates-the-police-shooting-of-anthony-j-thompson-jr-in-knoxville/ar-BB1fIrWq

 

Maybe there is more here than being reported, but from what I read whatever cop decided to enter that bathroom should be fired.


    

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53 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Lefty Tailgate about to pretzel themselves into applauding the way law enforcement handled Kyle Rittenhouse.

 

Me personally? I'd question Kyle R walking past police carrying an AR15 style rifle after shooting people and then getting to go home that night. The other kid, gets shot after being stopped and dropping a gun. One is white or looks white (and/or at least is a white supremacist sympathizer), the other wasn't. 

 

What other take is there? Let be honest, if Adam Toledo was a blond haired white kid he'd been taken to Burger King before being fingerprinted. Not killed unarmed while complying with the police. 

Edited by The Evil Genius
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3 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

Does the Adam Toledo incident even have a racial component to it, though?   Other than everything in American life has a racial component to it.

 

He definitely isn't a white looking Latino kid and the neighborhood in question is overwhelmingly Latino. Since the cop who shot him was white, I'd suspect there is a racial component that needs to be examined. 

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11 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

 

What does that even mean?

 

Yeah poor wording on my part. 

 

From my old eyes, some Latinos can easily pass as white Europeans. Others cannot. From what little pictures I've seen, I'd doubt anyone would be confused that Adam Toledo wasn't Latino. 

 

For example, I've read that Kyle Rittenhouse was part Latino (is that really true?). He looks more like a dorky white kid to me. 

 

Back on topic, I've read that the cop (Stillman) who shot and killed Adam Toledo had 3 complaints and 4 use of force reports filed against him from 2017-2020. I really have no idea what the norms are for that but from far away that seems excessive. 

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1 hour ago, PeterMP said:

Running from the cops with a gun should not equate to a death sentence.  If running with a gun from a cop my options are:

 

1.  Out run the cop.

2.  Shoot the cop

3.  Be shot by the cop.

 

It doesn’t necessarily equate to a death sentence. Plenty of people run from cops with guns and don’t get shot. Hell I’ve seen it on LivePD multiple times. 
 

we always fall into this trap of using terms like “deserve to die” and “equate to death sentence” and others. They’re all loaded. 
 

 Cops don’t shoot to kill. They shoot to stop aggressive actions. Sometimes the person dies. Sometimes they don’t. And many people with guns that have run ins with police are arrested without a shot fired. 
 

If you have a gun and choose to run or be aggressive you’re running the risk of getting shot. End of story. 
 

this idea that cops should deal with an armed subject in a manner that puts them at overly high risk is nonsense. 
 

there’s so much to criticize police for. This just isn’t one of them. 
 

the fact that at the last second the kid tried to give up, and the cop misunderstood the situation, is tragic because a young boy is dead. 
 

but never will I accept the idea that cops don’t have the right to defend themselves when the other person has a gun and is clearly behaving in a hostile way. 
 

young boy. With a gun. 2:30 am. Running from the police. 
 

sucks but sometimes people make (multiple) poor decisions. 

Edited by tshile
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36 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

I'd question Kyle R walking past police carrying an AR15 style rifle after shooting people and then getting to go home that night.

Yes. Absolutely. And there’s plenty of other situations. 
 

they shot and killed the white guy with the gun at the stand-off over that Native American museum. 
 

but none of that has to do with this. And this attempt to lump everything together all the time is silliness and any objective person can see that. That tactic is used plenty in many other topics and no one has an issue seeing the fault then.

 

there’s plenty that needs fixing but there will always be this core issue: you get into a confrontation with the police while you are armed and you’re running the risk of being shot, and the risk of dying from it. 
 

and if an individual can’t understand and accept that... well maybe you weren’t long for this world anyways. 

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16 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

Yeah poor wording on my part. 

 

From my old eyes, some Latinos can easily pass as white Europeans. Others cannot. From what little pictures I've seen, I'd doubt anyone would be confused that Adam Toledo wasn't Latino. 

 

 

 

I really don't think that's part of the calculus for a cop responding to a shots fired call who comes upon an armed person in a dark alley at 2:30 in the morning.

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7 minutes ago, tshile said:

Yes. Absolutely. And there’s plenty of other situations. 
 

they shot and killed the white guy with the gun at the stand-off over that Native American museum. 
 

but none of that has to do with this. And this attempt to lump everything together all the time is silliness and any objective person can see that. That tactic is used plenty in many other topics and no one has an issue seeing the fault then.

 

there’s plenty that needs fixing but there will always be this core issue: you get into a confrontation with the police while you are armed and you’re running the risk of being shot, and the risk of dying from it. 
 

and if an individual can’t understand and accept that... well maybe you weren’t long for this world anyways. 

 

I get that.

 

But I cannot help think the question in these cases will always be is/was the confrontation caused by the color of the persons skin. White (or seemingly white) kid shooting people with AR15 like gun, free pass to walk by cops and go home. Minority kid chased by cops, ditches gun behind fence when cornered, gets shot when he turns around.  

 

The playing field isn't level and it just sucks to have to still know that over and over. 

 

2 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

 

I really don't think that's part of the calculus for a cop responding to a shots fired call who comes upon an armed person in a dark alley at 2:30 in the morning.

 

Perhaps my assumptions are unrealistic then. 

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4 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

But I cannot help think the question in these cases will always be is/was the confrontation caused by the color of the persons skin


Yup. And that’s the police’s fault. Cause there’s entirely too many obviously bad situations and even more seemingly bad ones. 
 

I don’t fault you. At all. 
 

but I think this one is different. Doesn’t mean it’s not tragic. It’s just different. 

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Also - knife counts as armed. 
 

the training is 21 feet I believe. An average sized average athleticism adult male can close 21 feet with a knife before you can draw your weapon and take a meaningful shot. 
 

so if a knife is involved and you don’t stay at least 21 feet away and you make an aggressive move... you’re also going to get shot. 
 

just as an FYI because people tend to not know this stuff then ask why a cop shot someone standing 10 feet away when he “only had a knife”

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It seems popular thought is every time the cop is white and harms somebody of color, it's because they are racist.  When in reality, they could just be an a-hole, bully, poorly trained, freaked out, etc. - perhaps all the above.  An alley, middle of the night, I don't think you can really tell the difference between a latino kid or a white kid.  But I'd imagine you'd be on high alert when you see a gun, no matter the age or race of said person running away.

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Speaking of Kyle Rittenhouse...

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1264343?

 

Quote

Police, other civil servants donate to Kyle Rittenhouse defense fund


A data breach at the Christian crowdsourcing platform GiveSendGo shed light on the suspect's backers.

 

April 16, 2021, 5:02 PM EDT
By David K. Li and Kevin Collier
 

First responders and other government employees have donated money to support homicide suspect Kyle Rittenhouse, according to data leaked from a Christian crowdfunding website.

Rittenhouse, who fatally shot two men during protests against the police shooting of Jacob Blake in Kenosha, Wisconsin, has become a cause célèbre among conservative activists who believe the teen was within his rights to open fire in self-defense on Aug. 25. Rittenhouse, 18, was 17 at the time of the shooting.

 

MyPillow Inc. founder Mike Lindell and former "Silver Spoons" child actor Ricky Schroder played key roles in "putting us over the top" in coming up with $2 million for bail in November, Rittenhouse's defense attorney, Lin Wood, said at the time.

 

Now, data leaked from GiveSendGo appears to shed light on the sources of over $500,000 in donations to Rittenhouse's legal defense fund. The data was unearthed by the digital activist group Distributed Denial Of Secrets and shared with NBC News on Friday.

 

One pro-Rittenhouse donation for $25 was made with an email address linked to Sgt. William Kelly, who works in internal affairs for the Norfolk Police Department in Virginia.

 

Edited by The Evil Genius
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2 hours ago, tshile said:

but never will I accept the idea that cops don’t have the right to defend themselves when the other person has a gun and is clearly behaving in a hostile way. 
 

young boy. With a gun. 2:30 am. Running from the police. 
 

sucks but sometimes people make (multiple) poor decisions. 

 

For this kid, it was a death sentence.  And he didn't do anything that was clearly hostile or practice any behavior that was clearly hostile.

 

So...

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From the body cam video, there was less than a second from the time he had a gun in his hand to the time the officer fired.  I’d like to see some people here have to decide to shoot or be shoot and you have less than a second to decide.  Cops do plenty of stuff to be outraged over, this isn’t one of them.  Let’s move along.

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