bedlamVR Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Teams that loose are not happy with their FO. Teams that win are looked up too and their FO is seen with god like infallibility.... At some point teams that win were teams that lost and at some point they had to go through that transition from loosing to winning. What is happening this year is different to what has happened under Shanahan. Find me one story - just one where Bruce Allen was involved in decisions. Shanahan controlled everything from the scouting department to the colour of the drapes. The thing is we want to blame someone one . If there had been a complete cleaning of house, everyone was gone internal staff, FO, back office training staff the entire roster and Dan Snyder stepped down and a minority shareholder or new owner came to town and we were sat a 1-4 then fans would still be this depressed and this angry and putting the blame for 20 years of loosing on the current team. Hell Moses had one bad play in 6 in his first NFL game and he is held up as a shining example of how we cannot develop players . One play. (Which was actually 2 into is NFL career). It is old an borring and sure if you dislike this team so much then go and do something else on a sunday. You think it is a laughing stock and you are ashamed of the franchise there are others to choose from. I am sure they will appreciate your fine weather fandom just as much as the Redskins will when things come around. The only thing that will fix this team is to win games and to win games consistently and the best way to construct a team to win consistently is to minimise the change, Sure when some people have reached their potential and are limiting the team it is time to let them move on (as is the case with the DC) but the idea of a GM is to have a stabilizing force there to help the team grow. It might take time for Allen to get the right people together and my overall felling is we have a good teaching coaching staff but the strategic element may be lacking (particularly on defence). But he has to be given time. If the next defensive hire is just as bad as this one then yes he cannot go on forever but 5 games into a season in this role is a little ****ing early even by our standards... Still some would say 2 plays into a career is a little early to write a player off, but not here apparently ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knighthonor Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Snyder left all decisions to Coach/GM and stuck to the office stuff so he not to blame The Shanahans are gone, so they cant be blamed. And RG3 is not even playing, so he cant be blamed this time. So it seem like a the media is going down the list of who to blame for the whole team failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diesel Hog Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 This offseason will tell me a lot about Bruce. If we insist on sticking with a 3-4, we BETTER get a dang true NT! How has this not been addressed yet? Also, he needs to build the heck out of the O-Line. Again, what's going on here? We've needed O-Line help for years. What is taking so long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Everyone sucks Even the Waterboy and the guy in charge of headsets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 That's why I waxed your ass in fantasy this week Taken out of context thread nominee of the month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowledge316 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Teams that loose are not happy with their FO. Teams that win are looked up too and their FO is seen with god like infallibility.... At some point teams that win were teams that lost and at some point they had to go through that transition from loosing to winning. What is happening this year is different to what has happened under Shanahan. Find me one story - just one where Bruce Allen was involved in decisions. Shanahan controlled everything from the scouting department to the colour of the drapes. The thing is we want to blame someone one . If there had been a complete cleaning of house, everyone was gone internal staff, FO, back office training staff the entire roster and Dan Snyder stepped down and a minority shareholder or new owner came to town and we were sat a 1-4 then fans would still be this depressed and this angry and putting the blame for 20 years of loosing on the current team. Hell Moses had one bad play in 6 in his first NFL game and he is held up as a shining example of how we cannot develop players . One play. (Which was actually 2 into is NFL career). It is old an borring and sure if you dislike this team so much then go and do something else on a sunday. You think it is a laughing stock and you are ashamed of the franchise there are others to choose from. I am sure they will appreciate your fine weather fandom just as much as the Redskins will when things come around. The only thing that will fix this team is to win games and to win games consistently and the best way to construct a team to win consistently is to minimise the change, Sure when some people have reached their potential and are limiting the team it is time to let them move on (as is the case with the DC) but the idea of a GM is to have a stabilizing force there to help the team grow. It might take time for Allen to get the right people together and my overall felling is we have a good teaching coaching staff but the strategic element may be lacking (particularly on defence). But he has to be given time. If the next defensive hire is just as bad as this one then yes he cannot go on forever but 5 games into a season in this role is a little ****ing early even by our standards... Still some would say 2 plays into a career is a little early to write a player off, but not here apparently ... I think Bruce was involved in the hiring of Haslett and Morris. He fired everyone with ties to Shannys yet kept those two guys because they are his guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knowledge316 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Cool. I'm sick of fans who let agendas obscure common sense. Allen was in charge of contracts and some PR stuff under Shanahan. It was well-known and established by insiders here that Shanny called all the shots. You have ZERO proof Allen was responsible for any decisions under Shanny. Meanwhile, we have Shanahan's past as well as his title here as proof. I didn't want the DC either, few did, that's a decision Gruden must learn from. Allen's track record qualifies him to be a GM, and plenty of teams have retained people and promoted people under a GM that was let go or head coach fired. But my original point was we are only a few games into a new regime and have faced a ton of injuries. I'm sick of impatient fans who just want to leap to blame to satisfy a stupid agenda. You can't expect to get better if you don't establish some consistency. Hahahahahaha! The Raiders and Jaguars are far, far worse off. Guess you forgot the whooping we put on the Jags. We have a very good, young offense and we have a potentially good DL. One offseason of getting 2 good OL and a good DC and this team is just fine. You're being overdramatic and it's causing you to stray from reason. Guess it's being impatient with 4 years of Shannys. We should have given him an extension just for the sake of consistency. Also, when everyone knows the GM is a joke, you shouldn't have to wait 4+ years to get rid off him. Even if you count this as year 1 for Bruce, I'm not impressed. Retaining Haslett and Morris, top FA signing was Luavo, top 3 draft picks were selected to be backups with no shot of competing for starting job, did not upgrade safety position, signed an injury prone Porter, keeps a kicker who can't kick it out of bounds, special teams is still a mess. But yeah, lets just be patient and give him more time and draft picks to screw up. With this current FO structure, I have no faith that we'll ever be a consistent playoff team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 VOR- I can't believe i'm being forced into defending Bruce Allen as GM because since his signing i maintained that he was not a true GM. Bruce has really only been the grand poobah this offseason. But I'll address your previous points. The decision not to get rid of Haslett and Morris w/ the Shanahans. This may or may not prove to be the right decision. But Bruce more then anyone else had a vantage point to observe the relationship between Mike Shanahan--Haslett/Morris and the defense and maybe decided ALONG with Jay that Haslett deserve to replaced based on the interference from Mike S AND because changing DC in the midst of HC/OC would be too much change to sustain the first offseason of "his" regime. Now personally you know that I was in favor of an upgrade at DC (Wade Phillips). But again we're 5 weeks in to the season. Signing Rak goes hand in hand with signing Haslett. How can you bring the DC in a year you know he's being evaluated for the future without bringing back one of the best pass rushers on the team? Seems kinda unfair. AND again how do we know it was mistake anything can happen over the next 12 weeks? (man that seems like an eternity) OL-Here is an area where I agree. But based on the previous season where the OL was adequate and in conjunction with Jay's scheme I can see how they could agree that the OL wasn't top priority. But I agree I think they certainly made personnel mistakes on the OL. Draft-Agreed. You know my feelings on the Murphy selection. I think its too early to say on Moses. Long a 3rd round OL that doesn't start on a sub-par interior OL is troubling, especially when we're hurting at S and the selection right after long is a contributing S on the Ravens. First time HC + first time OC. Again, if you recall, I disagreed with this when the decision was made this offseason. But again its too early to know whether or not this is an issue. The offense isn't bad it's not being maximized nor as efficient as i would like but that's more of style issue. Bottom line the offense has been productive considering were on our back-up QB. NOW the game management miscues could certainly be linked to Jay having too much on his plate BUT it could also be any number of other factors. My thought is that its too soon to say. Secondary. Once again this is an area i agree is/was a mistake. Kicking game/special teams agreed but again its early. Scouting department being kept goes hand in hand with Mike Shanahan being in charge. Was it bad scouting or bad choices with good scouting? One offseason isn't enough to know. Bruce did hired that prick from San Deigo, good GM but just an ahole. Was the coaching search a mockery? Even if he knew Jay was his guy interviewing other guys was smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 I think Bruce was involved in the hiring of Haslett and Morris. He fired everyone with ties to Shannys yet kept those two guys because they are his guys. He kept Haslett because he knew his #1 choice for head coach might want to retain him because they have a past relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexa Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 I think it's fair to judge Bruce on what he's done THIS YEAR. So far, I give Allen a D. Porter. Not contributing. Terrible free agent pick The new left guard. Not working. Hatcher. Not good, not bad. I'd say he's been solid but outside of Jacksonville does he have any sacks? Clark. It's sad that you have to bring in a 35 year old safety to be your starter. That player should have been Rambo or a drafted player. Jackson. I liked this pick and still do. Just wish the coaches would use him like Seattle uses Harvin. Roberts. Good player. No more no less. His 2014 draft class is not doing anything. There is not one drafted player on a 3 win team that's starting. To me that's pathetic. Long isn't even dressing. Moses can't beat out Polumbus. We needed a couple starters out of this draft and we don't have one. I guess we need more time on Murphy and he'll start next year. But to me, he should be starting NOW and Orakpo should not have been signed. That money should have used on a safety. LOL at paying Orakpo 11 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 I think it's fair to judge Bruce on what he's done THIS YEAR. So far, I give Allen a D. Porter. Not contributing. Terrible free agent pick The new left guard. Not working. Hatcher. Not good, not bad. I'd say he's been solid but outside of Jacksonville does he have any sacks? Clark. It's sad that you have to bring in a 35 year old safety to be your starter. That player should have been Rambo or a drafted player. Jackson. I liked this pick and still do. Just wish the coaches would use him like Seattle uses Harvin. His 2014 draft class is not doing anything. There is not one drafted player on a 3 win team that's starting. To me that's pathetic. Long isn't even dressing. Moses can't beat out Polumbus. We needed a couple starters out of this draft and we don't have one. I guess we need more time on Murphy and he'll start next year. But to me, he should be starting NOW and Orakpo should not have been signed. That money should have used on a safety. LOL at paying Orakpo 11 million. Hatcher has 2.5 sacks. From what I've seen, he's definitely has been worth it. You also are missing Roberts on the list, who was also a pretty good signing. As for the draft class, you are wrong with no one starting with Breeland, who was the nickle guy and is now starting now that Hall is out. Ryan Grant is also getting a lot of playtime as the #4 receiver, which given what we have on the roster is probably as high as could be expected. Trent Murphy is also seeing a good amount of snaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 VoR, I'm going to start this off by saying that you're one of my favs on here but I do have some disagreements with some things here. Here's what I can hold him responsible for, which is after Mike Shanahan was fired: 1. The decision not to get rid of Haslett and Morris at the same time as Shanahan, Kyle, the Slowiks, Burns, etc. He could have done that. Didn't. I'm not as down on Haslett as some, and I understand the situation that he's working with talent wise. But that's a move that almost had to be made. I think the right of any head coach should be the ability to hire / fire his coaching staff. If you remember Gruden did interview people for the DC position, but the guy he wanted stayed in Cincy as DC (and isn't really looking too good right now). I will say that one positive in Haslett staying (I can't believe I'm saying this) is that we may have quick return on investment. Either our defense turns around immediately (yay), or it doesn't and Has is fired next year. If we'd have gone with a new DC we'd be looking at possibly 3 years of sucking before replacing him. 2. Signing Orakpo to the Franchise Tender without a clear understanding of how they were going to use him to make that investment worthwhile. Which really cut down on the ability to spend money elsewhere, along the OL, DL, Secondary. I could have gone either way on this one, but I leaned towards signing him because HISTORICALLY we've been a team that didn't keep their own draft picks. Orakpo may be a luxury we didn't need but I like that we're signing our own picks. I wish we'd have kept Carlos. 3. Assessing the state of the OL, and deeming that it didn't need an immediate, complete overhaul. And that guys like Chester and Polumbus could go into camp as starters. Here I agree with you, but we did bring in guys and offered contracts. We probably should have offered more, but it seems that the plan of action was to try for a few and if they didn't land here, that we'd just try to rebuild the line through the draft. But it seems you're looking to judge the GM wanting immediate success where a GM needs to be looked at over a longer period of time. I, for one, am glad we went the draft route because we've tried trades (Jamaal Brown), we've tried signing free agents (Jeremy Trueblood), and I know people were in LOVE with Eric Winston who keeps getting cut. I know we brought in Penn who looks good right now, but I feel like free agency is the way we tried to do things under Vinny and I want to use the draft more so I'm glad we drafted the OL and are looking to develop guys instead of just looking for quick fixes. 4. Drafting a whole bunch of backups when there were possibility to get guys who could come in and contribute right away. They KNEW Murphy was a backup, Moses was a backup, and Long was a backup the second they drafted them. I said in the draft thread, and in the "wish I got that guy" thread, stay put at 33, pick up Bitonio, who seemed like the most ready to play OL at that position. At least he goes into camp with a chance to compete for a starting job. none of the first 3 draft picks went into camp with a chance to compete for a starting job. This is a draft strategy question. We had practically deemed Keenan Robinson a bust before this year and now he looks like a stud. We don't know how our draft picks will turn around and like I said above, its hard to judge a GM on immediate turn around. That said, like I said above, I love the fact that we're finally using the draft. I would have liked for more to have been immediate starters, and maybe some different positions addressed (Free Safety), but the fact that he has shown an investment in the draft again is exciting to me because we are finally building this team like most teams. Sure we won't hit on all our picks and the Long / Moses vs Bitonio picks may wind up like the Kerrigan / Hankerson picks vs Watt, but its not like we got a bust in Kerrigan. Thats a pro bowl player who has shown to be a disruptive force on defense. Hopefully Long and Moses turn out in similar fashion. 5. Allowing a first time HC to have a first time OC. I like both, but the GM's got to step in there. I think some of our offensive problems with scheme and playcalling is because of inexperience by McVay and Gruden's over-loaded. Like I said above, I feel like any coach should be able to pick his assistants. If Gruden thought McVay was ready and was his guy, then more power to him and I wish us well. And its not like our offense is our problem. It could definitely be better in stages (third down), but we're still a good offense. And Looking at the team that Harbaugh built in SF, they had a similar thing - first time coach with a first time OC in Roman. 6. Not figuring out a better strategy to approach the secondary. And that's not saying that they needed to bring in one of the high money guys, but thinking that Hall/Amerson/Clark and Merriweather could cut it with the backups they had is not very smart. I agree with this and we could see this developing, but I am glad we didn't give a big contract to Just A Guy to come in and start. And some of the guys with major contracts had question marks. We went after Talib, Byrd and Mitchell, but didn't land any. I wish we had drafted a FS, but this again is something I say not to judge the guy on one year. Look at how long the Ravens had QB problems before drafting Flacco. I wouldn't call Ozzie a bad GM for going with Boller at QB for so long. I say give it time. 7. Not fixing the damn kicking situation. Pooch kickoffs on MNF because your kicker can't reach the endzone? Can't happen. This is somewhere I disagree with you. He found a punter, and he (or Mike) found Kai. Kai can't do kickoffs so he went and drafted a kicker. I could understand the criticism for drafting a kicker more than this one because they deemed K such a problem that they spent a pick on that kicker and had an open competition. Its not resolved yet, but this is something that he is addressing. 8. Determining that the entire scouting department and talent group were good and didn't need to get upgraded. Once again, I'd hold off on this. We had some respected personnel in our scouting department. We always have. I mean people look at SF and Sea and say "their GMs came from Washington" as a shot at us for not keeping them, but Morocco Brown was widely respected to the point where he was being interviewed for GM jobs across the league. he's gone now, but I think we have a good pipeline of scouts. I think the problem has been with either the coach (final person making decisions) listening to them, or finding guys to "fit his system" rather than picking the best player and adjusting the system to that player. 9. Not hiring a real, true-blue, experienced talent evaluator to serve as his right hand guy. Somebody from outside the organization who could lend a new perspective. How do you now know that Campbell isn't that guy? Or Williams? Williams led Grambling to division crowns so he knows recruiting and he's close to Gruden and Allen. But again, I think he has a right hand guy because if he's anything, he's a guy with friends. 10. Conducting a mockery of a coaching search. He knew who he was going to hire, and just had to wait until the Bengals lost. I'm not saying that it was the wrong hire. But the search was a joke. A mockery? I think he had a top choice, but it wasn't a given taht Gruden would take it. Russell was reporting that it would be Cowher. Others said it would be Art Briles, there was speculation everyday as far as who it would be. And even if it was a mockery, the fact that we interviewed those guys means that next time (if Gruden fails) we have a lead on who to go after next. But stuff like the Jim Caldwell interview where he analyzed every snap attempt of RG3 and said how he'd correct RG3. That's valuable information that can go into our vault and help Gruden (if Gruden chooses to use it). Not saying you don't have valid points, but I don't think they're all one sided or as bad as you made them out to be. Ultimately these are some valid things to judge Allen on, but don't be quick to give him a negative grade a few games into "his term". 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SWFLSkins Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 So a great joke among men talking serious football can't get a laugh, wow tough room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 It's a bit strange that insiders knew McVay was OC and Haz was DC immediately after the Gruden hire which was entirely predictable based on the coaches that we retained. Still, we lined up a dozen head coach interviews and pretended like the staff hadn't already been set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 It's a bit strange that insiders knew McVay was OC and Haz was DC immediately after the Gruden hire which was entirely predictable based on the coaches that we retained. Still, we lined up a dozen head coach interviews and pretended like the staff hadn't already been set. Well, there was no guarantee that Gruden wanted the job. While you are waiting to find out, you might as well look at other candidates, just in case and also for future reference if you need a coach. I'm not sure how knowing what you want is considered a "mockery". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 It's a bit strange that insiders knew McVay was OC and Haz was DC immediately after the Gruden hire which was entirely predictable based on the coaches that we retained. Still, we lined up a dozen head coach interviews and pretended like the staff hadn't already been set. I don't think it was hard to imagine that Gruden was on our short list. In fact that was reported once people started to connect the dots. But I think its incorrect to act as if those were "pretend" interviews. This is the same organization that had coordinators TURN DOWN interviews in 2008. At the same time, Gruden was a hot commodity and Tennessee was trying to get him as well. So it was far from a sure thing that we'd land him. I hope Gruden had final say on who to keep vs let go, but I don't think that its a problem with keeping the people on the staff that he may want to keep until he has a chance to interview them and make a final decision on who stays and who goes. And if Gruden doesn't work out, now we've got some leeway on who we may hire next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenDavis Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Is Bruce Allen to blame? This franchise has been in a mess for 20+ years. At some point you run out of people to blame and it all goes back to the owner. What is the Redskins record ever since Snyder took over? I know it's wayyyyyy below .500. I'm done blaming other people. And I'm 100% back to blaming Snyder. But really it doesn't matter. Snyder will be the owner until he dies. We'll suck year in and year out until 2050 or something. Oh don't get me wrong we'll continue to make the playoffs every 5 years or so, just enough winning to keep us fans around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Paint Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 This offseason will tell me a lot about Bruce. If we insist on sticking with a 3-4, we BETTER get a dang true NT! How has this not been addressed yet? Also, he needs to build the heck out of the O-Line. Again, what's going on here? We've needed O-Line help for years. What is taking so long? I'll also add, he better get a quality defensive coordinator too. He needs to go with someone with a track record, someone who is an expert at the 3-4, like Wade Phillips. Now is not the time for him to bring in some old Bucs defensive coordinator from his Tampa days to replace Haslett, and God forbid if Haslett still remains after this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 At least hes 10x better with the cap Is he? I know in many ways he seems like it. But no matter how unfair it was, the cap penalty still happened on his watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 If someone were to let a monkey drive their car and the monkey ran over a bunch of people, you wouldn't blame the monkey. ....damn dirty apes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Is he? I know in many ways he seems like it. But no matter how unfair it was, the cap penalty still happened on his watch. Involving a guy signed by his predecessor and that his current head coach had pretty much decided he couldn't work with him. What were the options, really? I don't like anything that happened with the Haynesworth situation from any side, but Bruce didn't have a choice at that point. Haynesworth needed to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdlives Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 I think anyone who thinks Snyder is or has been sitting on the sidelines and doesn't have any input on the way this team is run is being really naïve. Who was at his Thanksgiving table last year? Sorry, but that qualifies as interfering, especially if RGIII's bosses weren't invited. Talk about being undermined. I wouldn't be shocked at all if he was also responsible for both the RGIII trade and the McNabb trade. Like Shanny said, all Dan cares about is the QB position. The bottom line is Snyder has no clue how to run an organization. He really needs to go and take some business management classes. He treats this franchise like a toy, not a business. Part of that is personality, but part of it is lack of understanding. I also think if you're waiting for Snyder to clean house and do things properly, you'd better bequeath your waiting chair to your grandchildren because its not going to happen. He's never started from scratch with this team. There are always leftovers from prior failed regimes. Snyder doesn't get it and never will. As long as he's making money, he'll be content to fail as an owner. Winning no longer matters In the NFL and it certainly doesn't matter to Daniel Snyder. The worst franchises make serious cash, so what incentive does he have to bite the bullet, pull away, and hire someone who rebuilds this franchise the proper way from the ground up? It's never going to happen, and that makes me sad, but at least I've moved on to acceptance. It seems to me there are plenty of people out there who still think the next semi-rebuild will be the one that puts us back into relevancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 It's funny making excuses like "they didn't know if Gruden would want the job so they had to keep looking". Comical actually. I guess it's good to be young and naive. As far as the "staff", the plan to keep Haslett is reminiscent of the time we hired Zorn to be our offensive coordinator prior to hiring a head coach. We do everything bass ackwards. If it wasn't so depressing it would be funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Involving a guy signed by his predecessor and that his current head coach had pretty much decided he couldn't work with him. What were the options, really? I don't like anything that happened with the Haynesworth situation from any side, but Bruce didn't have a choice at that point. Haynesworth needed to go. You're right, but it wasn't cutting AH that was the problem, it was the restructure that happened first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 You're right, but it wasn't cutting AH that was the problem, it was the restructure that happened first. Exactly. It was the restructure WHICH HE WAS TOLD SPECIFICALLY NOT TO DO which got us in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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