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Why is Kirk Cousins an Interception Machine?


RiverboatGambler

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You quickly went from laughing to pretty much agreeing with me. You're some piece of work.

Wilson in the middle of the season was close to being benched before stringing together a solid 2nd half to secure his job. RG3 played at an all pro level from week 1 through week 17.

While I think Griffin CAN be a better QB than Wilson, the stats posted def dont tell the entire story. I won't argue that Wilson benefits GREATLY from a great defense, running game and insane home field advantage, but I've seen a lot of times where Wilson played not so great but with the game on the line he made the plays with his feet or with passes that won them games. The defense would keep them in the game covering his mistakes or subpar play.... then Wilson would step up and make the plays they needed to win. Wilson is perfect for what Seattle needs out of the QB position. He takes the plays and yards that are there either with the pass or his feet and doesnt make a lot of mistakes. I'm not sure where people are getting that Seattle has some amazing offense either. Outside of Lynch and Harvin (who he got this year basically), their o line isn't anything special and he hasnt had an amazing cast of pass catchers either since he has been there. He benefits greatly from the circumstances he is in and has made the best of them.

This is what I was getting at in my post above. Wilson a 3rd round pick has been put in a great situation and has flourished, Cousins a 4th round pick has been put in a poor situation and has been up and down.

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Ok, so  what was RGIII coming out of college?  Using your statement and applying it to RGIII, does that mean RGIII can't overcome his instincts/muscle memory either?  RGIII is a spread option QB, not a pocket passer, never has been one.  If I use the same on him, we really can't expect him to be better in this system either.  Looks like we are screwed either way we go.

I am so sick and tired of RG3 detractors trashing what Robert accomplished in college like he was given a Heisman trophy. Do your homework please! Yes... He was in the shotgun and not under center but do you realize how many WR's he helped make it to the NFL and get paid by hitting them in stride? Terrance Williams, Kendall Wright and Josh Gordon ring a bell? Robert racked up 3500 passing yards his Junior year and 4200 yards his Senior year at Baylor. His completion percentage was 67% his Junior year and it was 72% his Senior year. He also had a 22/8 TD to INT ratio his Junior year and a 37/6 TD to INT ratio his Senior year. Now I'm not a pro scout but how does a human being put up numbers like that throwing to speedy NFL caliber WR's against elite college competition with bad instincts, bad muscle memory and a propensity and talent for running with the ball if necessary, regardless of the offense he was running in college? Numbers don't lie... 

 

Kirk put up good numbers in college as well but if I am forced to compare him to Robert which I would prefer not to by the way... The most obvious differences are: 1) Robert is injury prone. A major concern at this point that can't be overlooked... 2) Robert has a legitimate cannon arm but needs to learn to throw with more touch. 3) Robert throws a very accurate deep ball (when he has time to throw and isn't running for his life). 4) Robert is a superior athlete which can be his downfall because it has contributed to his injury history. 5) Robert is a better pocket passer than he is given credit for but in all fairness he has never had an offensive line good enough at the professional level to give him enough time to survey the field. Which leads me to my final point...

 

Kirk get's the ball out quick which is what gets him in trouble at times but he has no choice. Until the offensive line play improves dramatically, our QB regardless of who it is will have to get the ball out quickly, dink and dunk, etc. to avoid sacks. 

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And his rookie season was 2 years ago, what has he done since? He won 3 games and that's it, 3 games!

Yeah sure MustangSteve. Whatever you say. Your question here wasn't the question any of us was speaking about. But to answer you question He had over 3,200 yds (more than he threw the entire 2012 in 15 games), 16TD's and 12INT with a 60% completion ratio, 82 QBR, on a losing team with a horrible defense. And, didn't play 3 games!!!!! ****Compare those stats to Russell Wilson who's on a stellar team, with a #1 (then) defense and played ALL 16 games******

 

Try comparing that to QB's with teams that has about same record as the Redskins last year and see what you come back with. Hell, you can do it with teams with 8-8 records on down and see just how bad RG3 really was. Since you like to keep throwing that statement out there.

 

It's funny how YOU always run to his win/loss record while ignoring the entire picture. Let me help you......Coming off a major knee injury (the second one), horrible special teams, horrible OLINE, horrible defense and no true #1 WR, still had better stats than Joe Flacco's entire career except 2 seasons. Those are FACTS, not an excuse. The fact is the Redskins was almost ranked last in special teams and defense last year! Where is RG3 ranked with QB's  around the entire league last year?

 

I see you want to have it both ways and tailor things to fit YOUR argument. You PRAISED Cousins in a losing effort against Philly "because of his stats", and it wasn't about winning then!!! LOLOL!!!  But you want to talk about how many games have RG3 WON???? How many has Kirk won? Not only that, you PRAISE Cousins, who statistically, is A LOT worst than RG3. With a losing record too.

 

Just remember what this thread is about. And remember that Kirk Cousins HAS 16 turnovers in only 6 starts. How many has RG3 had in 2 years and 28 games?

 

And this league is about WINNING! RG3 hasn't done that lately. What's new?? How is your solution any better? Oh, I get it, it's because you just "like" Cousins better? Well Cousins thus far isn't "better" than RG3 on paper or on the field. That's a fact! It's ON paper......That's why I say RG3 is better as of right now.

 

What documentation can you provide other than YOUR own personal choice and media hype that Cousins is better? Can he read defenses better? 16 turnovers in 6 games.... Why because you like a QB that throw quickly? 16 turnovers in 6 games......Why because you like a QB that stands tall in the pocket behind a horrible OLINE? 16 turnovers in 6 games.......I can keep going......

 

Once and for all Mr. Mustangsteve other than your personal choice, what has Cousins done ON the field that makes him better than RG3? Is it win/loss ratio? Better QBR? More come back wins? What is it? I don't want to hear what you or the media thinks......Kirk has started 6 games and won 1. He has never beat a team with a winning record yet. So what is it that makes him better?

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You honestly want me to tell you to not talk about what goes inside RG3's head, acting like an out of job shrink? And then you have the nerves to come up with the term "rational discussion"? You're trying to give yourself too much credit with that. How do you have rational discussions with somebody who clearly lost his mind?

I'm done with you, wanda. Stay delusional.
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He thinks because he has a cannon he can make any throw.

 

Part of the problem is he does not have a cannon. He's no noodle arm either, he has plenty of arm to make all the throws he needs to including deep outs, but its not a cannon. I think he overrates his arm and when you combine that with sloppy mechanics (he often throws without a base when there is no need to do that) AND an aggressive attitude you get turnovers.

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Yeah sure MustangSteve. Whatever you say. Your question here wasn't the question any of us was speaking about. But to answer you question He had over 3,200 yds (more than he threw the entire 2012 in 15 games), 16TD's and 12INT with a 60% completion ratio, 82 QBR, on a losing team with a horrible defense. And, didn't play 3 games!!!!! ****Compare those stats to Russell Wilson who's on a stellar team, with a #1 (then) defense and played ALL 16 games******

Try comparing that to QB's with teams that has about same record as the Redskins last year and see what you come back with. Hell, you can do it with teams with 8-8 records on down and see just how bad RG3 really was. Since you like to keep throwing that statement out there.

It's funny how YOU always run to his win/loss record while ignoring the entire picture. Let me help you......Coming off a major knee injury (the second one), horrible special teams, horrible OLINE, horrible defense and no true #1 WR, still had better stats than Joe Flacco's entire career except 2 seasons. Those are FACTS, not an excuse. The fact is the Redskins was almost ranked last in special teams and defense last year! Where is RG3 ranked with QB's around the entire league last year?

I see you want to have it both ways and tailor things to fit YOUR argument. You PRAISED Cousins in a losing effort against Philly "because of his stats", and it wasn't about winning then!!! LOLOL!!! But you want to talk about how many games have RG3 WON???? How many has Kirk won? Not only that, you PRAISE Cousins, who statistically, is A LOT worst than RG3. With a losing record too.

Just remember what this thread is about. And remember that Kirk Cousins HAS 16 turnovers in only 6 starts. How many has RG3 had in 2 years and 28 games?

RGIII is 12-16 as the starter, dude. And it's funny you say wins don't tell the whole story, yet you think stats are the end all be all. Doesn't matter what his stats are when his team is 3-10. Stats are useless if you don't know how to interpret them (which you clearly don't). Especially when you compare the stats of RGIII to those of a guy that recently won a SB MVP. Absurd.

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RGIII is 12-16 as the starter, dude. And it's funny you say wins don't tell the whole story, yet you think stats are the end all be all. Doesn't matter what his stats are when his team is 3-10. Stats are useless if you don't know how to interpret them (which you clearly don't). Especially when you compare the stats of RGIII to those of a guy that recently won a SB MVP. Absurd.

What's more funny dude is your ability to NOT read what I wrote and insert your own statement in there with your reply. Where in my post did I EVER say wins don't tell the whole story? Reading is extremely fundamental. I said clearly, the NFL is about WINNING. RG3 hasn't WON lately. What's new? Did you NOT see that??? WOW.........

 

Yeah you're right, it is absurd to reply with what you wrote. Thank you for enlightening us. Appreciate you man.

 

Here is what I said that you conveniently left out:

And this league is about WINNING! RG3 hasn't done that lately. What's new?? How is your solution any better? Oh, I get it, it's because you just "like" Cousins better? Well Cousins thus far isn't "better" than RG3 on paper or on the field. That's a fact! It's ON paper......That's why I say RG3 is better as of right now.

 

What documentation can you provide other than YOUR own personal choice and media hype that Cousins is better? Can he read defenses better? 16 turnovers in 6 games.... Why because you like a QB that throw quickly? 16 turnovers in 6 games......Why because you like a QB that stands tall in the pocket behind a horrible OLINE? 16 turnovers in 6 games.......I can keep going......

 

Once and for all Mr. Mustangsteve other than your personal choice, what has Cousins done ON the field that makes him better than RG3? Is it win/loss ratio? Better QBR? More come back wins? What is it? I don't want to hear what you or the media thinks......Kirk has started 6 games and won 1. He has never beat a team with a winning record yet. So what is it that makes him better?

 

And this is funny about you too Bubblescreen, when you talk your talk about Cousins being better, your reply is NEVER about Kirk Cousins wins..........You where raving about that Philly game and his stats........LOLOL......too funny! But now I don't understand the importance of winning and how unimportant stats are.....WOW Some of you, some of you. God bless you all LOL

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RGIII is 12-16 as the starter, dude. And it's funny you say wins don't tell the whole story, yet you think stats are the end all be all. Doesn't matter what his stats are when his team is 3-10. Stats are useless if you don't know how to interpret them (which you clearly don't). Especially when you compare the stats of RGIII to those of a guy that recently won a SB MVP. Absurd.

And who won a SB MVP that I compared RG3 too? Joe Flacco? Do you understand what I'm talking about at all? You are obviously replying with emotions. You made MY POINT for me LOLOLOL!!!!!!

 

Look at the team Joe Flacco was on........And yet RG3 was right there with him statistically. You didn't understand that? WOW......

 

Let me tell you in a more simple way since you say "I clearly don't understand"........

 

Joe Flacco was playing on a better team than Redskins assembled. What's RG3 record against the Ravens by the way? Wasn't that the year they (the Ravens) won the Superbowl? Didn't RG3 drive us down the field on a hurt knee to put us in position to win that game? Oh ok..........nevermind. I'll leave it there......it's pointless.

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And who won a SB MVP that I compared RG3 too? Joe Flacco? Do you understand what I'm talking about at all? You are obviously replying with emotions. You made MY POINT for me LOLOLOL!!!!!!

 

Look at the team Joe Flacco was on........And yet RG3 was right there with him statistically. You didn't understand that? WOW......

 

Let me tell you in a more simple way since you say "I clearly don't understand"........

 

Joe Flacco was playing on a better team than Redskins assembled. What's RG3 record against the Ravens by the way? Wasn't that the year they (the Ravens) won the Superbowl? Didn't RG3 drive us down the field on a hurt knee to put us in position to win that game? Oh ok..........nevermind. I'll leave it there......it's pointless.

Yea, I thought I read that right. SMH.

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The problem with Kirk seems evident. You can debate the mechanics and the stats all you want, but it's MENTAL. That's the only way to account for the HUGE swing between performances and the big drop in his play when the pressure is on. He has not proven that he can handle the MENTAL aspect of being a QB. I'm not talking about smarts and understanding plays. He's a really smart kid. But he doesn't have the mental toughness needed to stay collected and perform at a consistent high level at ALL times during a game, not just when nothing is expected of him. 

 

That's one thing I'll say for Robert: he's got the mental toughness, and you HAVE to be that way if you're going to succeed in this league. Hopefully one day his body will catch up. Kirk seems completely the opposite: less injury prone but totally lacking in the ability to stay focused in tough situations. 

 

This week will be VERY interesting as far as seeing how Kirk bounces back from that epic meltdown last week. To be honest, his meltdown started in the fourth quarter in Philly on that last drive. If he can't at least start looking confident and calm back there, I don't see much to look forward to with him. 

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Yea, I thought I read that right. SMH.

Yeah you did read it right. What was inaccurate about it? You want me to finish it? Kirk Cousins came in threw the TD and QB sneak the 2pt conversion to tie the game. Special teams won it in overtime........What else....SMH Whether you want to give RG3 credit or not, it was his play in the 4th qtr on a hurt knee that gave us the chance to win that game. Which we did came away with the win.

 

What's there to dispute?

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New NFL Rule Protects Quarterbacks From Brutal Criticism

NEW YORK—As part of a comprehensive league-wide policy change going into effect immediately, the NFL officially announced a new rule Monday aimed at protecting quarterbacks from any blatant and especially brutal criticism. “This has quickly become a greater issue in the sport as a whole, so we have taken steps to ensure that a team’s quarterback cannot under any circumstances be hit with criticism deemed to be severe or in any way excessive,” the league said in a statement, which went on to explain that considerable penalties and fines will be imposed upon anyone who decries a quarterback’s high interception rate or inability to make key third-down completions.

“A passer can no longer be slammed by the media in the aftermath of a loss, and the ban on attempts to disparage a quarterback’s questionable composure and decision-making in the pocket will also be strictly enforced. There is simply no place for this type of behavior in our league.” The statement also clarified that while NFL officials are currently contemplating similar guidelines for wide receivers, such protections will not apply to any players on defense.

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And who won a SB MVP that I compared RG3 too? Joe Flacco? Do you understand what I'm talking about at all? You are obviously replying with emotions. You made MY POINT for me LOLOLOL!!!!!!

Look at the team Joe Flacco was on........And yet RG3 was right there with him statistically. You didn't understand that? WOW......

Let me tell you in a more simple way since you say "I clearly don't understand"........

Joe Flacco was playing on a better team than Redskins assembled. What's RG3 record against the Ravens by the way? Wasn't that the year they (the Ravens) won the Superbowl? Didn't RG3 drive us down the field on a hurt knee to put us in position to win that game? Oh ok..........nevermind. I'll leave it there......it's pointless.

You were implying that because Bob had equal or better stats than Flacco, that automatically made him a better QB LOL. And yes, Joe was surrounded by better talent that year, but he was INSANELY good in the playoffs that year. One of the best playoffs (especially SB) a QB has had in recent memory, which culminated in winning the SB MVP. To compare Bob to him, is silly.

And yeah, Bob had an ok game vs them that year, but it was his idiotic decision to try and get a few extra yards, instead of going out of bounds, which started his downfall. Furthermore, it was Cousins who had to come in to save his ass that day, which you conveniently left out LOL . Btw, I'm on record as having little confidence in either of these guys, so you can stop saying I prefer one over the other. Unlike you, I don't cheer blindly for any one player. I'm about the name on the front, not the back.

Yea, I thought I read that right. SMH.

I know right. It's pointless debating with this guy when he doesn't even know the most basic of things as that. LOL
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And his rookie season was 2 years ago, what has he done since? He won 3 games and that's it, 3 games!

Since comparing QBs to Peyton Manning seems all the rage on this board lately, Manning "won" the same amount of games in his through his second year that RG3 did. (I keep typing this wrong lol...Manning had 3 more wins)

But thankfully nobody with even a minuscule amount of football intelligence thinks a team's win/loss record says all you need to know about the career of a young QB who has only been in the league 2 years.

I'm praying all of us really DO know this and can craft far more impressive posts than many have been doing when it comes to RG3 and Cousins.

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He was also coming off a major injury and did more than enough to win at least another 3 of those games if the redskins had an NFL level defense, special teams and offensive line. If you are going to just break it down to wins, those things should be considered. There are a lot of worse things in the world than a QB coming back off a major injury and playing .500 ball with an average NFL season of stats. This was supposed to be the season where we would see what Griffin had and what we could expect for the future and instead he gets hurt 1st quarter game 2. Ill admit that is very troubling.

I don't think Cousins can succeed here and it's a toxic situation for him. He tries to do too much because of the circumstances he is in. He has to prove he can be a starter in this league whenever he gets a chance and he just doesn't have the supporting cast on all sides of the ball to help him out. He played great in that eagles game and should have been handing the ball off at the end for the win, instead he has to go back out and try to win the game again, fails and his great day has a asterisk beside it. He isnt clutch, doesnt have moxy. Giants game the defense is allowing Manning to make them look silly so again he has to throw most downs trying to make something happen. This team plays best when we run the ball, yet we keep asking our QBs to throw the ball 30+ times. The pressure on him and Griffin is enormous and Cousins doesn't handle it as well. I think Cousins would be a completely different QB if he was the unquestioned starter and played for a team that committed to running the ball. Instead he plays for a team where he is the backup, has probably pressure from himself to perform well, pressure from this team for him to play perfect for us to have a chance to win and have him throwing the ball over 30 times. That's a lot to ask from Cousins, who was a 4th round pick as it is.

Look what has happened over 3 weeks. Cousins plays great football for 2 weeks and he is the talk of the league. Its his job to lose, reports are Griffin would accept a backup role, things look great for him. Then he struggles in a game where it's on his shoulders to make something happen through the air. Drives us down to get it to 21-14 at half and Paulson has a ridiculously silly turnover. 24-14 he makes a mistake and all of a sudden it's 31-14 and he has to throw when the defense knows he has to throw. He crumbles and is now back to being nothing more than a backup. Yeah these guys make millions and should be mentally tough, but that's a toxic situation to be in. Hindsight it would have almost been best for us to have benched him after the Eagles game, gotten our 1st or 2nd pick for him during the offseason and both parties move on lol. These are brakes in the NFL though and Cousins won't be the first or last QB that never really had a chance to flourish under great circumstances allowing him to grow into the best player he could be.

No QB's future success can be determined by his 1st season, much less than only a few games. A few Perfect examples are

Payton Manning 3-13

Troy Aikman 1-15

Joe Theisman started 0-5

All had great success and won Super Bowls, we can't determine if Cousins will turn out good or bad, all we know is he has a lot of potential. He lit up 2 defenses back to back, one being a division rival. I say Kirk is going to turn out to be a pretty good QB in this league, while another says he won't be better than a back-up QB. Only time tells the truth and proof. Griffin was coming off a pretty bad knee injury, in his 2nd year and was not the same QB he was in his rookie season. Started off very poor against the Texans, looked good on 1 drive against the Jags and right back on crutches. I'm not sure how he will look when he returns, but it better be much more productive than he was last season or there will be another QB controversy in Washington if Cousins plays well the next few games. I hope both Cousins and Griffin lights up every Defense in our path, I wan't to win and that's all I care about.

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I rarely post but Nuwanda you are spot on. This whole "pocket passer" BS needs to stop! When RGIII is healthy Gruden needs to adjust his scheme to complement RGIII's style of play. Period.

 

 

I do agree that defining a QB by pocket passer or running QB is kind of silly.

 

But you may want to go back and watch the beginning of the Jaguars game again before unloading on Gruden. RGIII's 1st play was the read option. He had two other designed runs early before he got injured on that freak play. It seems to me that represents that after one week Gruden adjusted his play calling to better fit RGIII. 

 

May want to give the guy more than a microsecond to make this thing work. 

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Maybe the Giants are his kryptonite. His career TD/INT ratio is 14 TDs and 15 INTs with a QB rating of 75.3.   His overall numbers against the Giants are 1 TD-6 INTs, with at QB rating of 42.4.  If you take away his Giants' games, his TD/INT ratio is 13 TDs and 9 INTs, with a QB rating of 90.2. 

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It looks to me like Kirk makes bad decisions under pressure, both actual physical pressure and the mental pressure to turn around a game. I don't know if that can be coached out of him, he seems smart but he's also had a couple of years now to get it out of his system.

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You were implying that because Bob had equal or better stats than Flacco, that automatically made him a better QB LOL. And yes, Joe was surrounded by better talent that year, but he was INSANELY good in the playoffs that year. One of the best playoffs (especially SB) a QB has had in recent memory, which culminated in winning the SB MVP. To compare Bob to him, is silly.

And yeah, Bob had an ok game vs them that year, but it was his idiotic decision to try and get a few extra yards, instead of going out of bounds, which started his downfall. Furthermore, it was Cousins who had to come in to save his ass that day, which you conveniently left out LOL . Btw, I'm on record as having little confidence in either of these guys, so you can stop saying I prefer one over the other. Unlike you, I don't cheer blindly for any one player. I'm about the name on the front, not the back.

I know right. It's pointless debating with this guy when he doesn't even know the most basic of things as that. LOL

First of all I didn't imply anything. If I felt that way I would've said it. You have a talent for avoiding or side stepping the original point no matter how clear it's stated. I said in 2013 RG3 stats where better than Joe Flacco career stats except 2 years. But Joe Flacco is on a better team. How in the ham sandwich is that implying RG3 is "better" than Joe Flacco?? What I stated is a FACT.......Look it up!!!

 

I'm not just pulling stuff out my behind and throwing it out there like many do on here.

 

****You honestly think Cousins came in the Baltimore game and saved RG3 butt??? WOW........

 

I won't get into what you know or don't know because that become more personal. But again READ ALL my post and you will see you replying to me is.........well nevermind. Carry on dude

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That can be argued as it related to their "rookie" season as he stated.

There's no real good way to argue that Griffin was "twice" as good as Wilson in his rookie year.

You're right, stats don't lie. Their stats aren't such that Griffin is double that of Wilson.

Luck, Wilson, and Griffin all had Good to Great Rookie years...in that order imho. But the difference between Griffin and Wilson wasn't a gaping chasm like "twice" as good would suggest.

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There's no real good way to argue that Griffin was "twice" as good as Wilson in his rookie year.

You're right, stats don't lie. Their stats aren't such that Griffin is double that of Wilson.

Luck, Wilson, and Griffin all had Good to Great Rookie years...in that order imho. But the difference between Griffin and Wilson wasn't a gaping chasm like "twice" as good would suggest.

No No No ZRagone what I'm speaking of is the team RG3 was on and what he was asked to do as opposed to the other guys. That's why it's so hard to communicate this stuff on a message board. It's always taken literally. RG3 had to be twice as good because of what he had to work with.

 

But you're absolutely right stats wise. But RG3 had to bascially carry his team. The other two not so much.

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No No No ZRagone what I'm speaking of is the team RG3 was on and what he was asked to do as opposed to the other guys. That's why it's so hard to communicate this stuff on a message board. It's always taken literally. RG3 had to be twice as good because of what he had to work with.

But you're absolutely right stats wise. But RG3 had to bascially carry his team. The other two not so much.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Luck was asked to do much more for his team than RGIII or Wilson. Luck had the least talent around him his rookie season. He had no running game or offensive line. And his defense stunk. Plus, look up his pass attempts and compare it to the other two. Do you really think RGIII only throws 5 INT if he had to throw it as much as Luck, or didn't have the benefit of having a RB like Morris to use play action off of? Not to mention, Luck's head coach went down early in the season. So don't give me this garbage that RGIII was asked to do more than the other two. Wilson yes, but definitely not Luck.
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