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Long term growth versus get what you can while you can....(RG3)


NoCalMike

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All the reports out of training camp as it is wrapping up seem to give me the vibe that Gruden is approaching the coaching and teaching of the QB position to Robert differently then the Shanahans. While it not be as exciting in the short term I think it will pay dividends in the long term.

 

Gruden does not seem content on squeezing Robert for what he can right now.  The way he is talking and conducting practice makes it seem like he is trying to teach Robert as opposed to make it as easy as they can for him.

 

As fun as 2012 was, I sometimes do wonder if that had never happened, or say that style of QB play was never implemented, would we have been in a different spot in 2014. Maybe, (quite likely) we don't win the NFC East in 2012, but then also perhaps Robert is further along in his development from the pocket then he is now.

 

It seems like the current coaching staff is full embracing the expectations that Robert will have an up and down season this year in the new offense.  His comments regarding the QB play have been very tempered, it's not that he doesn't praise when it is deserved but he has no qualms about explaining what he sees on tape that needs to improve for this offense to run.

 

I am not sure if the Shanahans gave up on Robert too soon, or they just weren't interested in developing/putting in the hard work to turn a rookie QB into a top QB.  That seems to be a common theme among the old-guard of coaches that are still hanging around, they really don't like dealing with young QBs and having to work through the growing pains.

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Well I think the empty void is what would 2013 have been like had the injury to RG3 never happened.

 

Lets say they beat Seattle, then lost to Atlanta.

 

So Robert goes into Year 2 healthy and a full offseason.  

 

At that point are the Shanahan's looking to improve his pocket skills or do you think they were just looking for the short route by continuing what they are doing?

 

Also, I think the term "pocket passer" is becoming something of a misnomer. Just because a QB has the ability to make athletic plays outside the pocket, doesn't mean he can't pass inside the pocket.  Robert was pretty solid in 2012 from the pocket with his passing, but the offense was designed for a typical rookie QB, it was not complex, so naturally when the NFL had an offseason to study and you combined that with RG3 spending the offseason learning how to walk instead of practicing, it was a disaster waiting to happen.  We really won't know just how much of a lost year 2013 was until we see how he plays in 2014.

 

Something tells me we are going to get something in between because it's obvious Gruden is not willing to sit pat with the kind of passing offense the Shanahan's ran.  He wants more out of the passing attack, he wants it to be more diverse.  More weapons were brought in to be utilized, not so Garcon would have to catch 90+ passes again.  

 

I think too many people are looking at the normal projection of a star QB and assume he's going to take some huge leap merely because he is healthy, but we have to remember he isn't likely going to be running the same offense he did in 2012, it is like he is learning all over again.  We can say what we want about how "similar" this offense is, but there are new players, new plays, reads, audibles etc etc etc......this isn't Robert returning to an offense that he has been running for 10 years after missing a season.  

 

All I am saying is that I think it is okay if Robert has an up & down mixed results season if it means he is taking the steps towards becoming a big time QB.  

Contrast this with what I am hearing from a ton of 49ers fans out here when it comes to Kap, 90% of them are perfectly happy with him being a "1-2 Read QB, run for your life if you get into trouble" kind of QB.  Well that works well when the rest of the team is loaded with elite talent, but imagine where that gets him in a few seasons when more of the team's results are on his back.

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All I am saying is that I think it is okay if Robert has an up & down mixed results season if it means he is taking the steps towards becoming a big time QB.

absolutely....   i would add to this that people tend to forget this is a team game.  it's not all about how robert does translating to how the team does...  it's obvious, at least to me, the front office is trying to improve things across the board but rome wasn't built in a day... Robert will take his lumps as the team will.... it should not be all on his back...  we all hope the team does well this season but even if it does not, if robert learns and improves and takes steps forward, i believe with an improved team over the next few years, we as a fan base will be very happy with the results....

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Gruden and co should definitely be investing the time with Robert in the pocket so that he can develop as a pocket passer long term. But to get to that point I think Robert also has to be successful short term. And IMO to get that result you still have to set Robert up for success with some simple offensive scheming and taking advantage of Robert's legs. For the time being he's going to have to use his legs and athleticism in order to be successful to make up for the inability to stay in the pocket and pick a defense apart. So it should be a mixture of both long term development and get what we can get out of Robert now. I just want to see Robert confident back there and not afraid to take off and make plays. Then the passing lanes will open up and Robert will be able to take advantage ala 2012. If Gruden forces Robert to stay in the pocket there is a risk he will struggle mightily and be out of the league sooner than later.

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All the reports out of training camp as it is wrapping up seem to give me the vibe that Gruden is approaching the coaching and teaching of the QB position to Robert differently then the Shanahans. While it not be as exciting in the short term I think it will pay dividends in the long term.

Gruden does not seem content on squeezing Robert for what he can right now. The way he is talking and conducting practice makes it seem like he is trying to teach Robert as opposed to make it as easy as they can for him.

As fun as 2012 was, I sometimes do wonder if that had never happened, or say that style of QB play was never implemented, would we have been in a different spot in 2014. Maybe, (quite likely) we don't win the NFC East in 2012, but then also perhaps Robert is further along in his development from the pocket then he is now.

It seems like the current coaching staff is full embracing the expectations that Robert will have an up and down season this year in the new offense. His comments regarding the QB play have been very tempered, it's not that he doesn't praise when it is deserved but he has no qualms about explaining what he sees on tape that needs to improve for this offense to run.

I am not sure if the Shanahans gave up on Robert too soon, or they just weren't interested in developing/ putting in the hard work to turn a rookie QB into a top QB. That seems to be a common theme among the. old-guard of coaches that are still hanging around, they really don't like dealing with young QBs and having to work through the growing pains.

to be fair, if he never got hurt then i think it still could've been a smooth transition. I also think by the end of the season he will be much further along as a pocket passer than people think. He will be throwing for big numbers and we will put up big points

RG3 will never be a pocket passer, ever. Attempts to make him one will fail. <sigh> I digress.

I totally disagree with that sentiment

his decision making is his biggest weakness

his decision making as a passer was top notch pre injuries. His bad decisions is all from that and yes it can affect that aspect
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I just looked back at Robert's first 6 games of his rookie season.  What I noticed was that for a "1-read" QB, he sure did an incredible job spreading the ball around.  I guess it was all play calling to make all these different guys the #1 read.

 

Game 1 - Connected with 8 different receivers   - Brees connected with 7

Game 2 - Connected with 8 different receivers   - Bradford connected with 6

Game 3 - Connected with 8 different receivers   - Dalton connected with 5

Game 4 - Connected with 9 different receivers

Game 5 - Connected with 8 different receivers

Game 6 - Connected with 8 different receivers

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Being a pocket passer is all well and good but if don't use Roberts leggs then we are just wasting his best asset. His threat to run will keep the pass rush on their heels instead of having their ears pinned back. We have one of only a hand full of QB's the can beat you either throwing or running would be a shame not to take full advantage of it.

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Let's just hope Gruden realizes the importance of the running game, which I think he will. For most good offenses the key is to establish the run game, then that will open it up for the passing game. I said this last year and I'll say it again this year...we need to be doing playaction bootlegs. RG3 has the speed and passing ability to be one of the best bootleggers in history of the NFL. Obviously it only works for so long, but if we establish a sound running game early on in the game we will torch defenses. I also still feel we should sprinkle in the read-option every once in awhile. Have to keep them honest.

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RG3 will never be a pocket passer, ever.  Attempts to make him one will fail.  <sigh> I digress.

 

And you are basing this on what ? His hair style, his choice of footware, the name of his pet dog when he was growing up, ......or...... because he has not really been asked to do this before, and IF it is because he has never really been asked to do this before, how do you supose you know he cannot adjust his game... any other tip bits you would like to share from your infalable vision into the future ?

 

Look I kind of agree with you in the sense that I do think RGIII will struggle to tame his playmaker processes and think if A, B and C are not there when they should be there can I make something happen - wham! ... but scouts right up until he was drafted in 2012 were thinking he sould be a WR at the next level...I think (well I assume) you will agree they were wrong about him...

 

Other QBs have more experience as a pocket passer but like other 3rd year QBs  (specificially those playing in blue and white uniforms for instance)  RGIII is still developing (athough there are those who suggest some are developing and others are developed and amazing and ooh golly... ) Young pocket passers to whome RGIII is typically compared to, are able to read the field and get the ball out quickly making quick decisions, however those decisions are not always right .  

 

I think I would be comfortable with RGIII being that unconventional QB, not unlike Steve Young who are able to utilize his arm and legs. RGIII has some growing to do but is that unexpected ?

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Where did this notion come about that Gruden is trying to make Griffin a pocket passer?? Gruden is trying to improve his skills in the pocket, reads, decision making, and overall pocket presence. But in no way is Gruden trying to turn RG3 into strictly a pocket passer. The argument is fruitless and shouldn't even exist.

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OP good thread topic although I'm sure it will inevitably turn into another outlet for the vocal minority that don't think Griffin can be a pocket passer.

But specific to your OP I agree I think Grudes is developing Griffin different from Mike/Kyle. Grudes is developing him like he would any QB.

He's developing Griffin to execute a complete passing game. And for me that is a welcome chabge from the simplistic base personnel read-option playaction passing game under Kyle.

But I don't think Griffin is going have many 'downs' compared to 'ups'. I trust in Griffs skillset as a passer and his overall coachability, smarts and work ethic. Plus I trust Grudes ability to coach. If Jay can got production from a less talented spread read-option QB like Dalton then I'm quite bullish on Griffin's production.

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