DM72 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 You shouldn't provoke people. I don't care if you are a guy or a girl, but if you do not wish to be involved in a fight, then do not provoke one. Don't spit in someone's face if you aren't prepared for the consequences. I agree with that. I'm from the school of thought that "EVERYONE" should keep their hands to themselves. I believe it was the late comedian Sam Kinison who once said, "I don't condone domestic violence, but I do understand why it sometimes happen." I don't agree with what Stephen A said, but not all women are totally innocent. Define provoke. Is asking who some girl was an adequte provocation? Causing someone to be late to a movie? Angrily slamming a door? What specifically should a woman avoid doing that cause someone to knock her unconscious and grab her by the hair. A list of ten things would be helpful. My wife was hit by an old boyfriend for asking him where he as when he came home at 3 in the morning. Was that a provocation she should have avoided? Just to play devils advocate, what if a woman was wearing rings and she put one right between your eyes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Define provoke. Is asking who some girl was an adequte provocation? Causing someone to be late to a movie? Angrily slamming a door? What specifically should a woman avoid doing that cause someone to knock her unconscious and grab her by the hair. A list of ten things would be helpful. My wife was hit by an old boyfriend for asking him where he as when he came home at 3 in the morning. Was that a provocation she should have avoided? perhaps you should ask the original author of his definition of "provoke", since that's what you were attacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Just to play devils advocate, what if a woman was wearing rings and she put one right between your eyes? Well, that's actually assault not provocation. Maybe Steven A. should be telling ladies "Don't punch violent men." Let's assume for a moment that I think hitting a woman who hits me first is justifiable (which I don't), is there any provocation below a physical assault that a woman needs to avoid? I want to pass this infomation to my kids. perhaps you should ask the original author of his definition of "provoke", since that's what you were attacking. I don't have his email. I'm just curious what you cats think "provoking" is. Talking loudly during a ball game? Spending $500 on a purse? Overcooking the chicken breast so it is dry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Spending $500 on a purse? Lol...Is that all we had in our savings? There could be a problem. But seriously, I don't believe anyone is justifying hitting a women for those examples you gave. As you put it, if a women "assaults" you, I think you have every right to defend yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Lol...Is that all we had in our savings? There could be a problem. But seriously, I don't believe anyone is justifying hitting a women for those examples you gave. As you put it, if a women "assaults" you, I think you have every right to defend yourself. So why the word "provoke?" Also...how many domestic violence cases start off as female on male? Actually, forget I ask that. Because someone here is going to go off on a screed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I don't have his email. I'm just curious what you cats think "provoking" is. Talking loudly during a ball game? Spending $500 on a purse? Overcooking the chicken breast so it is dry? Kicking a beehive Walking up to a growling dog Pissing off someone you see as a threat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chew Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 i'll never understand how people are so confident in approaching strangers in the heat of battle. Okay, so you're having a bad day and you're running on a short fuse and could snap at any moment. What makes you think nobody else is feeling the same way? Some jerk cuts you off in traffic and people are quick to pull up along side them and curse them out and toss middle fingers around. What makes you think that guy doesn't have a shotgun and his mom died earlier that day? People are waaaaaaay too confident in dealing with strangers on an aggressive level. I say we need to see more viral videos of road rage knockouts before the general public gets the message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 First Take may be the worst show on television Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 So why the word "provoke?" You're right. No one should ever have to worry about provoking anyone. No one should ever have to go through life in constant fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 i'll never understand how people are so confident in approaching strangers in the heat of battle. Okay, so you're having a bad day and you're running on a short fuse and could snap at any moment. What makes you think nobody else is feeling the same way? Some jerk cuts you off in traffic and people are quick to pull up along side them and curse them out and toss middle fingers around. What makes you think that guy doesn't have a shotgun and his mom died earlier that day? People are waaaaaaay too confident in dealing with strangers on an aggressive level. I say we need to see more viral videos of road rage knockouts before the general public gets the message. Um...okay. That's solid advice, people. Let's move on...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan since a Fetus Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I get the gist of his argument, I just do not think he said it in the most eloquent manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 You're right. No one should ever have to worry about provoking anyone. No one should ever have to go through life in constant fear. neither should they go thru live oblivious of consequences.....even unjustifiable ones the guy going to jail doesn't remove the scars ect...... if ya don't mind living or dying with the consequences you are certainly fearless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWolf990 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Stephen A Smith attacks black people for being black for years on that show, nary a peep. Attack women, and all hell breaks loose. IN saying that, no one should beat on anyone in a relationship and each person has a right to defend themselves if they are physically attacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinInsite Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Hey Christians, stop living in Muslim countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 You shouldn't provoke people. I don't care if you are a guy or a girl, but if you do not wish to be involved in a fight, then do not provoke one. Don't spit in someone's face if you aren't prepared for the consequences. What is provocation PP? What degree of provocation makes it okay for you to assault and hit someone? Smith is treading a very dangerous line here because there is a history of victim blaming and there's a whiff (maybe more than a whiff) of if they knew their place nothing would have happened to them. Women should be proactive in situations where men can be violent. Best way is to leave and not come back, but that isn't always possible/realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chew Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 youngchew, on 25 Jul 2014 - 2:00, said: blah blah blah Um...okay. That's solid advice, people. Let's move on...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Hey Christians, stop living in Muslim countries. Hey Redskins' fans, you wore your jersey to a Philly game you deserve to be assaulted and hospitalized. WTF were you thinking sitting in your seat! That's provocation, man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 What is provocation PP? What degree of provocation makes it okay for you to assault and hit someone? Smith is treading a very dangerous line here because there is a history of victim blaming and there's a whiff (maybe more than a whiff) of if they knew their place nothing would have happened to them. Women should be proactive in situations where men can be violent. Best way is to leave and not come back, but that isn't always possible/realistic. Yea. Hitting....spitting....kicking....I get that those actions have a really good chance of causing a phyiscal response. But is that what Smith is talking about? I don't think it is. What about flirting with another guy? Talking a lot? Insulting his family? Insulting his salary? Hey Redskins' fans, you wore your jersey to a Philly game you deserve to be assaulted and hospitalized. WTF were you thinking sitting in your seat! That's provocation, man! You cheered for the Skins near a drunken unemployed welder from Cherry Hill. You, frankly, deserved that plate in your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 So why the word "provoke?" Also...how many domestic violence cases start off as female on male? Actually, forget I ask that. Because someone here is going to go off on a screed. There certainly are women who provoke fights, and there are men who provoke fighting from women, this happens due to arguments that escalate and because those people have issues and/or don't know how to properly handle arguments. Couples get into arguments all the time, and there are men and women who take it way over the line when they are angry and say or do things that cause a violent reaction from their partner. I think what Stephen A. Smith was trying to say, but lacked the coherency to articulate it, is that in situations where tempers are escalating and lines may be crossed, it's usually a wiser course to be aware of the situation and either make the decision to try and quell the argument or simply walk away to de-escalate the situation. This is very different than the completely unprovoked instances of violence where someone flies off the handle over very little, like the examples you gave. People in customer service are trained in how to relax tense situations with irate customers. I think it is a good idea for women AND men to know those same skills and be able to apply them in arguments. I only see Stephen A. Smith's argument applying in those situations, where there is an argument and it could potentially escalate and escalate, or cooler heads can prevail. But he should have said that both women and men need to learn those skills, and been VERY specific about the situations in which it applies. Because he said it wrong, people are having a field day with it and the actual good in his message is pretty much lost because of all the nonsense he had around it. And this in no way means women should be subservient in an argument. There are plenty of ways to handle an argument to where you cool things down without being the one to cede their point. And this in no way condones violence either, but these types of conversations seem to always need such disclaimers (and disclaimers themselves are examples of people attempting to keep discussions from escalating). But I do want to thank Stephen A. Smith for wording his things so poorly and shifting the sports world's focus away from us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Elk, you knocked it out of the park bro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Elk, you knocked it out of the park bro a walkoff homer with that closing line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 There was nothing wrong with what Stephen A said this morning. If you watch the entire clip, he makes it clear that there is no excuse for a man to hit a woman. He then goes on to say that when discussing it with the woman closest to him, he says that they should make sure they aren't doing anything to provoke the situation. He's 100% correct. There are many times when a woman is attacking a man and ends up being the victim because the man retaliates. By no means does this excuse a man from hitting a woman, but not all men are the same. I'd tell all woman close to me the same thing. They should be cognizant of the situation they are in. There are women when who are innocent victims to domestic violence. But the issue is very complex. To say a woman shouldn't take personal responsibility for her actions, if she's wrong, is foolish. I (as a woman) kinda get where you're coming from. I fully expect a punch if I land one, no matter whose face it's on. And being cognizant and fully aware of what's going on around you is definitely a plus, I realize now how many drunken mistakes I made that led to truly horrible mistakes later. You're right, there are men with very little or no control over themselves. But there's also another level of personal responsibility...and knowing that law enforcement will not favor the male, it would behoove him to LEAVE. I can't imagine feeling forced to shoot someone. Hope I never do. I certainly wouldn't marry the fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Define provoke. Is asking who some girl was an adequte provocation? Causing someone to be late to a movie? Angrily slamming a door? What specifically should a woman avoid doing that cause someone to knock her unconscious and grab her by the hair. A list of ten things would be helpful. My wife was hit by an old boyfriend for asking him where he as when he came home at 3 in the morning. Was that a provocation she should have avoided? I think Smith was specifically referring to violent provocation which if you actually watched the clip, you'd notice. I don't think he thinks if a guy expects you to bring him a beer and you don't, that you needlessly provoked him. He went on to say that everyone needs to withhold violence. I just don't see why this needs to be discussed to this extent on a sports show. You're right. No one should ever have to worry about provoking anyone. No one should ever have to go through life in constant fear. No one should but that's the point, we don't live in a fantasy world where everyone makes the right decision all the time. There are violent people, sick people etc. Hell, even "good" people can act stupid at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I don't subscribe to the feminist tendency to see all good advice on preventing violence as wrong and victim blaming but Stephen A. Smith invites those thinking the worst of his comments by failing to define what he means by provoking. There are ways to provoke a person to violence without being the first to actually strike the other but they are rare and extreme. Smith doesn't seem to be talking about that because his tone is too casual and open ended. He seems to be giving us the old elbow nudge and "you know whatta mean, right bro". I imagine his friend Mayweather he felt provoked each of the many times he beat a woman, even when doing so in front of his kids. As for never hitting a woman, I think that making that some sort of universal standard is absurd. Threats are threats, gender is irrelevant, and I'm not gambling my life or my families on my ability to use the least force possible to restrain a violent stranger. My priorities are not suspended by some sort of awkward PC remnant of chivalry. As for domestic violence specifically, it would take an extreme situation to cause me to hit a female family member. If I came home and caught my wife sleeping with another man I wouldn't lay a finger on her. I'd probably say some pretty mean things and the guy might want to run for his life, but I wouldn't touch her. My point is that it would have to be some nightmarish extreme that is pretty damn unlikely. What Ray Rice did appears to go well past my definition of beating. He knocked his fiancée out cold, then dragged her out if the elevator and unceremoniously dropped her. It would take a doozy of a story to justify that ****. Sports do not take domestic violence seriously enough. Society doesn't take it seriously enough. If you beat the people that are closest to you, I can see no reason why anyone should trust you, and yet could argue that it gets treated as less than a DUI these days (which is also bad, but IMO not nearly as bad). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Hell, even "good" people can act stupid at times.Well said. And that stupidity can lead to jail time. Think really hard before lashing out on anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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