Kirk Cousins Of Washington Redskins Says He'd 'Welcome' Gay Teammate: 'Nobody's Perfect - Huffpo

[China]

R Kelly and Aaliyah come to mind...married at 15?

Heck just r Kelly period...sex take with a 15 year old girl...did she consent to it? Yup. Did she say no, stop? Negative. Your ignorance of pedophilia is what makes you find what I said insulting.

 

Just an FYI, that's ephebophilia, not pedophilia.

[The Evil Genius]

I would love to see people here defend a Muslim or Jewish or whatever player who said he'd welcome a born again christian on the team, because, "nobody's perfect".

[twa]

Just an FYI, that's ephebophilia, not pedophilia.

 

15 is pushing it

[Rocket442Olds]

Its typical passive-aggressive posturing by a Christian, who just happens to be an NFL player. I don't think he meant much harm in it, but its common everywhere and gets quite annoying. He sees other christians do it, so he wants to do it too and thinks he's seriously "helping" the misguided homosexual.

 

I find it stupid that he has assumed that a gay teammate can't be christian, but again its all on his upbringing and being ingrained to shame anyone who doesn't share his beliefs in a book.

 

That said, I see this as basically a non-story. If folks who don't agree with christians got mad every time a christian said he was sinning or disobeying or ignoring god half the world would be angry every day. The bit that cracks me up is that christians every generation seem to have a few things they harp on as sins that are more publically defamable than others. Currently being gay is the hot sin.

 

Like I said, I doubt he did it to be an asshole, but was just following other folks lead and thought it'd sound good.

[twa]

I would love to see people here defend a Muslim or Jewish or whatever player who said he'd welcome a born again christian on the team, because, "nobody's perfect".

 

I would understand where they are coming from......us bigots gotta stick together

[RansomthePasserby]

I did not expect this thread to become this serious.

Unbelievable.

You know, I think in trying to interpret what Cousins said, the posters in this thread shed way more light on their own beliefs than they do on Cousins'.

[CrypticVillain]

I try my best not to get in these "religious debates" because they are silly, and quite frankly serves no purpose to me. If somebody is born gay, or chooses to be gay, or whatever, that's cool with me. We are all children of God in the end. I don't have any beef with anybody. I love all of y'all. Furthermore it's not up to anybody to "preach the gay" (lol) out of anybody. Besides, that IS NOT what Kirk Cousins said in this article. lol

 

With that being said, the main reason I am even replying in this thread is because of the shellfish statements...

 

Leviticus 11:9-12 (NLT)

^"9 “Of all the marine animals, these are ones you may use for food. You may eat anything from the water if it has both fins and scales, whether taken from salt water or from streams. ¹⁰ But you must never eat animals from the sea or from rivers that do not have both fins and scales. They are detestable to you. This applies both to little creatures that live in shallow water and to all creatures that live in deep water. ¹¹ They will always be detestable to you. You must never eat their meat or even touch their dead bodies. ¹² Any marine animal that does not have both fins and scales is detestable to you."

And since we're in the Old Testament, let me just throw this verse in here too...

 

Jerimiah 10:2-4(NLT)

^"2 This is what the Lord says:“Do not act like the other nations, who try to read their future in the stars. Do not be afraid of their predictions, even though other nations are terrified by them. ³ Their ways are futile and foolish. They cut down a tree, and a craftsman carves an idol. ⁴ They decorate it with gold and silver and then fasten it securely with hammer and nails  so it won’t fall over."

 

"Well dang MLS... If the Bible is telling Christians not to eat shellfish, and telling Christians not to decorate trees with gold and silver (basically Christmas), why on Earth do Christians celebrate Christmas and eat shell fish?"

 

The easy answer is, that we are under the New Covenant.
A good verse to demonstrate that is

 

Romans 7:6 (NLT)

"But now we have been released from the law, for we died to it and are no longer captive to its power. Now we can serve God, not in the old way of obeying the letter of the law, but in the new way of living in the Spirit."

 

Now to dig in further about the shellfish and Christmas and whatnot, a verse that could help explain that is

 

Colossians 2:16-17

¹⁶ So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. ¹⁷ For these rules are only shadows of the reality yet to come. And Christ himself is that reality.

 

I know this is a lot, but I had to say this because it seems like when the debate of Homosexuality comes up, the first thing people bring up is Christians and shellfish.

It's like Cowboy fans arguing about football and bringing up their five rings.

 

We know those five rings existed, but time has passed and things have happened. So to talk about those five rings, and completely ignore what happened after that doesn't tell the whole story. (That analogy sounded better in my head, but I am just going to roll with it lol )

 

Edit: Gotta add something. I am not a pastor, theologian, etc., I am just someone who understands that the Bible is not something you read out of context. If you read Deuteronomy 21:18-21 by itself, you would be appalled. lol It's not supposed to be like that. You gotta put things into context.

Shoot, I know Christians that don't eat shellfish and don't celebrate Christmas because of those verses. But again, that's on them.

[Larry]

R Kelly and Aaliyah come to mind...married at 15?

Heck just r Kelly period...sex take with a 15 year old girl...did she consent to it? Yup. Did she say no, stop? Negative. Your ignorance of pedophilia is what makes you find what I said insulting.

I hereby bow to your knowledge of pedophilia. In fact, whenever I think of pedophilia, I will henceforth consider you to be the most experienced person I know.

[Larry]

Where does the line stop is what I'm asking.

I agree. We've got to beware of those slippery slopes.

I mean, after all. If people actually respect the excretia you're continuing to spew on this message board, then how long will it be before we have Klan members demanding the same respect and tolerance?

And if we allow the Klan, then how long is it before Nazis demand the same treatment?

[Bang]

You know, I think in trying to interpret what Cousins said, the posters in this thread shed way more light on their own beliefs than they do on Cousins'.

Man, that is a pocketful of truth.

 

I don't see what the big deal is.

 

"I would welcome the guy. he can help the team."

 

Isn't that what is important?

 

This is a fine example of "tolerance". You don't have to change your belief to simply accept a person and treat them decently.

 

 

~Bang

[daveakl]

I'd rather shower with a gaggle of gays, than be preached scripture to.

Gaggle of Gays is hilarious! Flock of fags. Litter of lesbians. Heap of homos. Bushel of blacks. Cornucopia of caucasians. This could be fun.

Man, that is a pocketful of truth.

I don't see what the big deal is.

"I would welcome the guy. he can help the team."

Isn't that what is important?

~Bang

As long as we don't play the Chinese fortune cookie game and add "in bed" to the end of every sentence.

[Koolblue13]

Dave, outstanding. Haha.

A persons sexuality is about as relevent to their religion, when it comes to the serious game of football.

[Larry]

Man, that is a pocketful of truth.

 

I don't see what the big deal is.

 

"I would welcome the guy. he can help the team."

 

Isn't that what is important?

 

This is a fine example of "tolerance". You don't have to change your belief to simply accept a person and treat them decently.

 

 

~Bang

 

Remember, decades ago, there was a TV series, I think made for HBO.  Sitcom based on a semi-pro football team.  OJ Simpson played the coach. 

 

I just caught one scene. 

 

Two players, I think one was a stereotypical lineman (white guy, buzz cut, no neck), and I think a WR (smaller black guy), sitting at a bar.  And they're venting. 

 

"Why we have to bring in some guy from a country I've never heard of?  Football is an American game.  It's for Americans!  Can't we get anybody who's American?" 

 

"I mean, the guy doesn't even speak English!  Only English he knows is 'Kick ball.  Collect Check.'" 

 

OJ walks up behind them.  Puts one hand on each shoulder, and leans between them. 

 

"He was 3 out of 4 from beyond 50, last year." 

 

The two guys stop.  They look down the bar.  Think for a moment. 

 

They throw their arms wide, with huge smiles.  "Buddy!" 

[Zguy28]

I think part of the issue is that for many (obviously not all) whose sexuality or gender (trans*, bi-gender, etc.) is outside of what is/was the cultural norms within our society, a sensitivity to words and actions has understandably developed that can make it difficult to not view what normally would be a well intended comment like Cousins' into something that can be construed as border-line (or outright) insulting.

 

I mean, think about it. Groups like the Family Research Council and American Family Association spend every day on their radio shows, tv shows, media interviews, and so forth attacking homosexuals. That giving them equal rights will literally destroy the country. That male homosexuals are child predators. That bestiality is part of the "gay lifestyle". That homosexuals should be deported or placed into camps. That federal judges who rule against SSM bans are "domestic enemies" and should be impeached. Are these folks extremist in their views? Yup. Are there politicians who, at the very least, sympathize with their views? Yup, and they are doing the best to make sure that those who are LGBT are/remain second-class citizens. Hell, in some parts of the country it is pretty much required if you want to make it through the primaries. And all of them are doing so under the banner of religion.

 

Even those who are not extreme in their views can still unintentionally trigger a bad response, like the continuous use of the word "lifestyle" to describe LGBT, like it is some choice they made one day..."Hey, I'm gonna go make out with some guy cause that sounds like fun". I am a heterosexual bi-gendered male (hey, woohoo...."outing" myself in a rant post). I am fortunate in that, in my case, it is not something most would notice unless they spend a lot of time around me, and even when stranger does notice they just assume I am gay if I am in the middle of a switch (my term for it). It has also caused me to have issues with depression, confusion about my sexuality, emotional problems with relationships,  played a role in my first marriage ending, gender and body dysphoria, suicidal thoughts, and all kinds of other fun issues. That is not a lifestyle, it is an a very large piece of who I am, something out of my control, that society's attitudes made difficult for me to come to terms with, to find myself and be happy with myself. Calling it a "lifestyle" is belittling  - and I did not have to deal with a tenth as much crap as someone who is homosexual. In my case, I only had to deal with a father who tried to beat the "sissy" out of me...homosexuals literally have to fear for their lives in many parts of the world.

Re: lifestyle choices.

 

Friend, I think one has to divorce (for lack of a better word) feelings and emotions and attractions from actions. We all have feelings, attractions, etc. A lifestyle choice is to act on it. Would you say a man choosing to be celibate is a lifestyle choice? What about choosing to be promiscuous? Or to co-habitate or be married? All are choices, are they not? And to say you have no control is nonsense. We all can exercise self-control to some extent, unless you have a disease, then yes, its out of control I would say.

 

No person is rejected for having same-sex attractions or impulses. What you do with that is another matter...a choice. So yes, it is a lifestyle choice, especially in the current cultural context of the same-sex marriage debates.

[Larry]

Re: lifestyle choices.

 

I think one has to divorce (for lack of a better word) feelings and emotions and attractions from actions. We all have feelings, attractions, etc. A lifestyle choice is to act on it. Would you say a man choosing to be celibate is a lifestyle choice? What about choosing to be promiscuous? Or to co-habitate or be married? All are choices, are they not?

 

No person is rejected for having same-sex attractions or impulses. What you do with that is another matter...a choice. So yes, it is a lifestyle choice, especially in the current cultural context of the same-sex marriage debates.

 

This looks an awful lot like the familiar "well, OK, they're born that way.  But they should suppress it, for their whole lives, anyway.  So that they don't offend me". 

[Rocky21]

No person is rejected for having same-sex attractions or impulses. What you do with that is another matter...a choice. So yes, it is a lifestyle choice, especially in the current cultural context of the same-sex marriage debates.

I'm not sure I understand your point.  You think people choose to be gay?  Did you choose to be heterosexual?  

[Beygo]

This looks an awful lot like the familiar "well, OK, they're born that way.  But they should suppress it, for their whole lives, anyway.  So that they don't offend me". 

I don't think Zguy is even giving them the "born that way" part.  I interperate his post as saying being gay is a choice.

 

Which I disagree with. 

[Zguy28]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C52N7zdkn98

 

Watched this two nights ago and found it very enlightening.  Would love for ZGuy and 757Sean Taylor to watch with an open mind.     

I watched the clip. Like most other things of this nature, it is mostly propaganda supporting somebody's view and mixing truth and error interchangeably.

 

Again, referencing my previous post on "lifestyle choices", a person may have same-sex attractions and impulses. What causes them is actually irrelevant, for many things that make us who we are are shaped by experience, genetics, environment etc. Regardless of the whole debate, from a Christian theological point of view, all mankind is condemned already, no matter what they choose to do with their life.

 

Jesus is recorded in John 3 as preaching this message:

¹³ No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. ¹⁴ Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, ¹⁵ that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”

¹⁶ For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. ¹⁷ For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. ¹⁸ Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. ¹⁹ This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. ²⁰ Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. ²¹ But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

 

 

Now, what a person does after that, in the context of the church body, is another story (see the Eugene Robinson/Episcopal church story in the video). You really have to do some exegetical gymnastics to wave off passages such these:

Romans 1:18-32 - Paul writing that homosexuality is wrong, but more importantly it is a sin the has roots in idolatry like all others.

1 Corinthian 6:9-11 - Homosexual behavior (specifically males in this passage) is listed with other immoral sins as "unrighteous" and deserving of not going to heaven.

 

Now, I associate with a gay person everyday at work. He's a great guy, nice as can be. I don't believe he is a pedophile or any other such nonsense. I believe that his sexual relationship with his mate is a sin, but it is no different than any other, including one's I commit. Except...he chooses to partake in that sexual and emotional relationship with another man, willingly. However, he is not a Christian. At the end of the day, I side with Paul. I believe it is wrong, its a sin to act on it. But I also agree with him when he wrote in 1 Corinthians 5:

 

⁹ I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— ¹⁰ not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. ¹¹ But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. ¹² For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? ¹³ God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

[No Excuses]

I'm not sure I understand your point. You think people choose to be gay? Did you choose to be heterosexual?

He's saying they don't choose to suppress it even if they are born with it.

The intolerant thought process is evolving.

[Zguy28]

This looks an awful lot like the familiar "well, OK, they're born that way.  But they should suppress it, for their whole lives, anyway.  So that they don't offend me". 

Whether they offend me is kind of irrelevant to me personally. What I find offensive is when folks want to insist that I like it.

 

I'm not sure I understand your point.  You think people choose to be gay?  Did you choose to be heterosexual?  

 

 

I don't think Zguy is even giving them the "born that way" part.  I interperate his post as saying being gay is a choice.

 

Which I disagree with. 

Go back and re-read what I wrote, noting where I talked about acting on feelings and self-control.

He's saying they don't choose to suppress it even if they are born with it.

The intolerant thought process is evolving.

One man's suppression is another man's self-control and self-discipline.

[Beygo]

Go back and re-read what I wrote, noting where I talked about acting on feelings and self-control.

 

Telling me to go re-read what I just read isn't going to change my interpretation.  Being homosexual is not a matter of self-control or self-discipline.

 

This is an anachronistic way of thinking. 

[mistertim]

Zguy,

 

If I'm understanding you correctly you do believe that (some in your opinion) gay people are born that way. However, you think they should, for their entire lives, suppress their natural (and therefore God given) sexual feelings. And apparently God thinks the same way.

 

So my question here would be...why would God do that? Why would God create this person (who he ostensibly loves) with this specific sexual trait and then condemn them to a life of inner torture because of that trait that HE gave them?

[twa]

I'm not sure I understand your point.  You think people choose to be gay?  Did you choose to be heterosexual?  

 

 

Can ya plead involuntary heterosexuality?

 

Why else on earth would any man/woman put up with the other .....it is really a plot to create more meat for the grinder by the Illuminati. 

[The Evil Genius]

Zguy,

 

If I'm understanding you correctly you do believe that (some in your opinion) gay people are born that way. However, you think they should, for their entire lives, suppress their natural (and therefore God given) sexual feelings. And apparently God thinks the same way.

 

So my question here would be...why would God do that? Why would God create this person (who he ostensibly loves) with this specific sexual trait and then condemn them to a life of inner torture because of that trait that HE gave them?

 

Because his version of God is a dick?

 

[twa]

wait, God is still creating people?

 

can this be used to get out of child support?