skinsmarydu Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 something ya'll overlook is this is a response to state anti-discrimination laws being used to overturn marriage bans and also force people to go against their religion.If anyone in this great Nation feels that they're being "forced" to go against their religion, they have Constitutional recourse. They seriously do. edit here: however I doubt any business owner would turn down sales at this point in our economy.:end edit And secondly, they're not being forced to do anything except acknowledge the Constitution they hold so dear and that Bible: Do unto others as you would have done unto you. That was our founding freedom. If you want liberty, allow others theirs. And for the record, I may be a PK, but I grew up in NoVa, am a Bible-belter by transfer and that urge of human life that keeps us all moving, as we're free to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 part of that constitution enables Kansas to not recognize SSM/CU from other states and to pass laws like this one.is one liberty more important than another's?w/o getting into a verse war ,,,verse 18 isn't discriminatory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 In other states Larry Oh, got it. When California passes a law, saying it's illegal for businesses to discriminate against gays, then Kansas must immediately pass a law, stating that discriminating against gays is LEGAL, even though it already was legal. Otherwise, some court will apply California's law to Kansas, and rule that discriminating is illegal in Kansas, too, even though no such law has been passed. And I bet the legislation a granting special, protected status to people who discriminate against gays, is merely a response to some law that's been passed in some other state, too. What happened, did California pass a law saying that Kansas gays can sue Kansas businesses, for violating California law, in Kansas? Them liberals, always trying to mandate their morality on everybody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Not in the slightest! Reinforces 16! If I absolutely MUST do this again, I will. John 3:16 does NOT say "...whosoever believeth in Him, is heterosexual, pays bills on time, votes according to the Bible"... What it DOES say is, "whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish, but have eternal Life." I will heartily challenge the person who says it excludes one single soul. My father preached mercy, grace, and faith. Cut everything in red that speaks about the poor. You'll be left with ragged pages. His message was to love & respect each other, regardless of their spirituality. Don't treat them harshly, pray for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Nobody is taking away external life from gays, just saying they can't participate like others, kinda like women can't be priests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Nobody is taking away external life from gays, just saying they can't participate like others, kinda like women can't be priests. "Judge not, lest ye be judged." Gimme another softball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 As someone who has struggled to find religion their whole life, it's hard for me to look at the Christians who discriminate against homosexuals and feel like they know God. It would seem to me that mere belief in God is a poor substitute for knowing God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 "Judge not, lest ye be judged." Gimme another softball. I don't judge, I am on the side of the gays on this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 I don't judge, I am on the side of the gays on this Then you'll help in the effort for equality. (Unless we go back to your prior post of "they can't participate like others")...you typed it, so I assume that's your real feeling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 As someone who has struggled to find religion their whole life, it's hard for me to look at the Christians who discriminate against homosexuals and feel like they know God. It would seem to me that mere belief in God is a poor substitute for knowing God. And knowing God may not require belief in God. I am agnostic but I do hope that there is a judgmental deity who views morality and compassion over tithing and going to church on Sundays. The moment the souls of these people realize they are facing eternal damnation for using religion as an excuse for their bigotry would be a fun one to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Then you'll help in the effort for equality. (Unless we go back to your prior post of "other than they can't participate like others")...you typed it, so I assume that's your real feeling? LOL no I was being smart. Having two daughters, religion is discriminatory against women even moreso than gays. In the catholic church you can get away with being a gay priest, but not a female one. Of course in the baptist church you can't even look gay Even though you think I am far right, I am for gay rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Then you'll help in the effort for equality. (Unless we go back to your prior post of "they can't participate like others")...you typed it, so I assume that's your real feeling? Pointing out that his post may have been sarcasm. (I'm not sure. myself.) LOL no I was being smart. Having two daughters, religion is discriminatory against women even moreso than gays. In the catholic church you can get away with being a gay priest, but not a female one. Of course in the baptist church you can't even look gay You sure about that? All the Baptist preachers I see, seem to see have better hair than Jimmy Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Glad. We're really all one, aren't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Oh, got it. the courts are using state laws against discrimination to justify changing marriage recognition, the reflexive counter is to pass state law specifically allowing discrimination in places that wish to discriminate.(removing a justification) if SCOTUS would just find that universal right to marriage exists for all .......peace and cool waters would fill our land you never answered on whether a states citizens should be legally liable for not recognizing SSM/CU in states that do not recognize them...not interested? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Pointing out that his post may have been sarcasm. (I'm not sure. myself.)It seems he clarified...And knowing God may not require belief in God. I am agnostic but I do hope that there is a judgmental deity who views morality and compassion over tithing and going to church on Sundays. The moment the souls of these people realize they are facing eternal damnation for using religion as an excuse for their bigotry would be a fun one to watch.I missed this...I'm in your crew. I don't think God designed the w-2, doesn't care what you give, just try to DO things he would do. Be nice. Say please & thank you. Understand that others that may be providing you a service have a buttload of stuff going on too...just BE NICE! It's not so hard, really. I've said lately that my wings have been trimmed, my restaurant is lacking sales, and my schedule is suffering. When you dig out of all the snow, please go out to eat. Help a server. Tip generously, please. They were out of work too. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 the courts are using state laws against discrimination to justify changing marriage recognition, the reflexive counter is to pass state law specifically allowing discrimination in places that wish to discriminate.(removing a justification) if SCOTUS would just find that universal right to marriage exists for all .......peace and cool waters would fill our land you never answered on whether a states citizens should be legally liable for not recognizing SSM/CU in states that do not recognize them...not interested? Shoot, I'd drop out of the conversation too...have you really thought about that question? Not even remotely close, except folks like you want it all in exchange for nothing?...without a law, everyone's free game. Isn't that why we became "United"? Some things, good or bad, don't belong here. Discrimination is one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Tomorrow, I'm going to speak to a reverend who is in favor of this bill and the religious protections it offers businesses. If any have any questions pro or against let me know and I'll try to include them. Thanks Ask him how Jesus treated those viewed as sinners and if this bill embodies that spirit. This bill is a joke. It's legalized discrimination hiding behind religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 the courts are using state laws against discrimination to justify changing marriage recognition, the reflexive counter is to pass state law specifically allowing discrimination in places that wish to discriminate.(removing a justification) Actually, they're using the US constitution's prohibition against government discrimination, to justify overturning government discrimination. (State laws do not trump state constitutions. And even if they did, OTHER states laws do not trump state constitutions. And even if they did, it would be the state's courts job to decide it. The US constitution trumps state constitutions.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 you never answered on whether a states citizens should be legally liable for not recognizing SSM/CU in states that do not recognize them...not interested? Because I didn't want to chase TWO moving goalposts at the same time. It's already legal in Kansas for businesses to discriminate against gays, unless the state, or some lower jurisdiction has passed a law saying otherwise. This law doesn't make discriminating against gays, legal. It's already legal. It makes it PROTECTED. By granting it special protection that other things that are legal, don't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Ask him how Jesus treated those viewed as sinners and if this bill embodies that spirit. This bill is a joke. It's legalized discrimination hiding behind religion. That's a good question, of course He encouraged them to turn from their sin I agree it is legal discrimination Actually, they're using the US constitution's prohibition against government discrimination, to justify overturning government discrimination. (State laws do not trump state constitutions. And even if they did, OTHER states laws do not trump state constitutions. And even if they did, it would be the state's courts job to decide it. The US constitution trumps state constitutions.). They are using the states anti-discrimination laws, the US ones only compliment them,not control obviously. they are using the federal ones to change federal policy soon the two shall meet and Scotus will have to quit slacking off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Because I didn't want to chase TWO moving goalposts at the same time. It's already legal in Kansas for businesses to discriminate against gays, unless the state, or some lower jurisdiction has passed a law saying otherwise. This law doesn't make discriminating against gays, legal. It's already legal. It makes it PROTECTED. By granting it special protection that other things that are legal, don't have. On the contrary, business and employees can be sued for it now....this bill addresses that,and probably creates conflict with federal ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 That's a good question, of course He encouraged them to turn from their sin I agree it is legal discrimination I think short-sighted people and greedy people are the kinds who would support this bill, viewing it as license to do as they please. I think smarter people will realize that this bill gives the nut jobs of their religion free license to discriminate and news coverage will be all over it and this will give their religion a bad name. Burgold, I wouldn't mind you asking the reverend if he thinks Muslims should have the same right to discriminate based on their religion. Also, ask the reverend what he thinks the public perception across the country will be when news starts showing citizens being denied services at business in the name of Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 On the contrary, business and employees can be sued for it now....this bill addresses that,and probably creates conflict with federal ones Which is exactly what I said. Businesses can be sued for not shoveling the snow on their sidewalk. Or if somebody slips and falls. Or if somebody claims that their business offended them. All of which are legal. What this law does, is make discriminating against gays PROTECTED. It grants that act special immunities which very few actions are afforded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 soon the two shall meet and Scotus will have to quit slacking offLike when they choose the case to decide on? Never before heard of...usually cases are brought, not sought. Burgold, I wouldn't mind you asking the reverend if he thinks Muslims should have the same right to discriminate based on their religion. Also, ask the reverend what he thinks the public perception across the country will be when news starts showing citizens being denied services at business in the name of Christianity.Good questions. Just to make a funny, I could stop serving everyone, cause all y'all look weird. Don't know why, but I'm sure I can come up wit sompin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 BTW, twa, As to the larger question of whether businesses should be allowed to discriminate? My position on that is rather complicated, and I don't want to hijack the thread. Short statement of opinion: Right now, businesses discriminating against gays is legal in some jurisdictions, and illegal in others. And I'm ok with that. I'm not ok with places passing special laws, granting discrimination special protections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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