Your experience regarding Netflix streaming (quality)...

[Rocket442Olds]

Yes, FiOS is likely capping your speed to netflix.

 

As crazy as it sounds, Netflix is the biggest space-eater for Internet Providers, worse than youtube. So Verizon has started capping it. I talked to 3 techs about it, each one would say "we cannot talk about specific websites, but would be happy to test your speed via [insert site here]". Of course it'll be quick there like it normally is, but they won't do a speed test while routing through a netflix IP, because they're throttling them like crazy.

 

I pay for 75 mb/s Download and 35 Upload. I've noticed Verizon doing this on youtube during certain hours of the day, and with a few changes to your modem setup you could get around it. I can't seem to do the same with Netflix yet.

 

Some interesting articles:

http://consumerist.com/2014/02/11/netflix-streaming-speeds-getting-worse-for-comcast-and-verizon-fios-customers/

http://www.theverge.com/2014/2/10/5399110/verizon-netflix-is-source-of-frustration-for-slow-streaming

 

Basically, a he said/she said bit between the ISP and Netflix. Could be either, but I've caught FiOS Throttling my connection to Youtube once already last year, so right now my thoughts are its them, not the other way around.

[twa]

If Comcast & Time Warner are allowed to merge, then Netflix slowdown is more likely than ever to happen.

 

they will do what we allow them...the more likely is tiered pricing on rates

[Springfield]

they will do what we allow them...the more likely is tiered pricing on rates

There is already a tiered pricing based on download speed. I pay for 25/25 which I seldom ever get and can't get anything better than 3Mbps down on Netflix. It's bull****.

So you think consumers are going to allow people to be bullied into paying for Internet based on the sites they want to go to?

[Popeman38]

Yes, FiOS is likely capping your speed to netflix.

 

As crazy as it sounds, Netflix is the biggest space-eater for Internet Providers, worse than youtube. So Verizon has started capping it. I talked to 3 techs about it, each one would say "we cannot talk about specific websites, but would be happy to test your speed via [insert site here]". Of course it'll be quick there like it normally is, but they won't do a speed test while routing through a netflix IP, because they're throttling them like crazy.

 

I pay for 75 mb/s Download and 35 Upload. I've noticed Verizon doing this on youtube during certain hours of the day, and with a few changes to your modem setup you could get around it. I can't seem to do the same with Netflix yet.

 

Some interesting articles:

http://consumerist.com/2014/02/11/netflix-streaming-speeds-getting-worse-for-comcast-and-verizon-fios-customers/

http://www.theverge.com/2014/2/10/5399110/verizon-netflix-is-source-of-frustration-for-slow-streaming

 

Basically, a he said/she said bit between the ISP and Netflix. Could be either, but I've caught FiOS Throttling my connection to Youtube once already last year, so right now my thoughts are its them, not the other way around.

This hair-brained idea has been poo-pooed by industry experts:

 

 

If you've noticed a recent slowdown in your Netflix service, it isn't anything to do with Verizon, according to a J.P. Morgan analyst who says he's had conversations with the streaming video company.

The analyst, Doug Anmuth, told Re/code Tuesday that Netflix CEO Reed Hastings is confident that Internet providers won't dare to provoke the wrath of users by slowing down access to films and TV shows. More importantly, Re/code reports, Netflix itself hasn't observed anything to suggest that Verizon is throttling bandwidth.

Netflix isn't officially commenting on the issue, but the note throws cold water on a theory endorsed by some subscribers to Verizon FiOS. Last week, a Texas software engineer said some of his Internet usage, including Netflix, was being slowed to 40 kBps, despite paying for a 75 Mbps pipe.

The engineer suspected that Verizon was taking advantage of a recent court decision that made it legal for broadband providers to prioritize network traffic.

The company's denial also appears to be bolstered by Netflix's own data showing that streaming speeds on FiOS have been on the decline since October — long before the D.C. Circuit ruled against government regulations on Internet speeds.

 

The data help undermine the argument that Verizon is intentionally throttling traffic. Other broadband providers such as Comcast have also seen a drop in their Netflix speeds.

So if Verizon isn't acting to slow down traffic, what explains the slowdown in service?

Increased loads could be to blame. By some estimates, Netflix accounts for up to a third of North American Internet traffic at peak hours. To cope with the rising tide of demand, Netflix has been promoting OpenConnect, a technology that boosts speeds but requires Internet providers to cache some video inside their own networks. This makes it faster and cheaper for Netflix to deliver content.

Verizon and Comcast have declined to partner with OpenConnect. Netflix warns that this could result in reduced speeds. To help keep track of ISP performance, Netflix has an index that ranks Internet providers according to how well they carry streaming content. Google Fiber tops the list, while major networks fall toward the middle. Some have argued that the ranking serves two purposes: to give an account of streaming speeds, yes, but also to shame providers that haven't signed on with OpenConnect.

In the future, OpenConnect will only become more important. Netflix in September expanded access to its Super HD streams from just those ISPs that use OpenConnect to include those that do not. The resulting deluge of extra data may be one reason for the recent slowdown — and the decline in performance across more than a dozen broadband services appears consistent with that decision.

If Netflix previously limited Super HD service to a select few as a way to incentivize adoption of OpenConnect — a carrot-based approach, you could say — then opening the floodgates to bandwidth-intensive streams might be Netflix's way of pressuring ISPs to agree to OpenConnect instead — a stick-based approach. Arguing that users would revolt if the carriers' response were to throttle traffic, Netflix is in a good position now to demand concessions from Internet providers. Netflix has Verizon and Comcast boxed in.

So, Verizon and Comcast have refused to download users streaming data onto their networks (eating up space) and saving NetFlix money while costing them money, and yet somehow this is the providers issue? NetFlix wants to offload cost onto the providers, and since Comcast and Verizon have refused, NetFlix is intentionally causing the slow down to pressure the providers (via angry users and nasty online articles) into using NetFlix's business model. 

 

I understand people hate service providers, and once one gets accustomed to certain speeds, but sometimes it isn't the evil provider's fault. NetFlix is pimping OpenConnect, and the providers don't want to use them.

[Rocket442Olds]

This hair-brained idea has been poo-pooed by industry experts:

 

So, Verizon and Comcast have refused to download users streaming data onto their networks (eating up space) and saving NetFlix money while costing them money, and yet somehow this is the providers issue? NetFlix wants to offload cost onto the providers, and since Comcast and Verizon have refused, NetFlix is intentionally causing the slow down to pressure the providers (via angry users and nasty online articles) into using NetFlix's business model. 

 

I understand people hate service providers, and once one gets accustomed to certain speeds, but sometimes it isn't the evil provider's fault. NetFlix is pimping OpenConnect, and the providers don't want to use them.

Both sides have their reasons for possibly doing it, and I specifically said it at the end of my post that it could be either. The concern is I have specifically seen Verizon slow down specific IPs for Youtube in my past here locally.

 

OpenConnect is only one part of this, and doesn't explain the entire drop. FiOS especially, considering it is meant to handle higher loads.

 

I agree it is easy to hate ISPs, and overall FiOS has been great for me, but Verizon has had a history of less than moral behavior with its consumers. Also, a JP Morgan Exec, saying he's talked to the Netflix CEO isn't the Netflix CEO saying Verizon isn't doing anything. At most its saying they're either not mentioning it, or don't have evidence on their end. Add to that, with FiOS being the largest drop, is it ridiculous to assume they're part of this, especially considering they've now got skin in the game with their own Redbox Streaming service? They also have a Cable Setup, and Netflix is a threat there too.

 

Far from 'hair-brained' in my opinion.

 

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/13kmvd/have_time_warner_internet_but_can_barely_stream/

I've done the same locally, blocking certain IP ranges from video sites on my FiOS Modem. To assume it is not partly the ISPs fault is just as "hair-brained"

[twa]

There is already a tiered pricing based on download speed. I pay for 25/25 which I seldom ever get and can't get anything better than 3Mbps down on Netflix. It's bull****.

So you think consumers are going to allow people to be bullied into paying for Internet based on the sites they want to go to?

 

Usage tiers as well

People will be bullied if they don't have options, if your provider will not work to make your experience better ya need to move on.

 

or try leveraging netflix (which you have less pull with)

[Springfield]

and in case anyone cares...

I ran the Example Short at work today. Samsung Smart TV. WiFi connection. Cox business Internet 10 Mbps download (a full 15 Mbps download slower than my home Internet).

My results:

Started at 235kpbs like the rest. Quickly jumped up to 6000kbps within a minute. Full 1080p within a minute. Put my home fios to shame. All the while another computer was live streaming the Olympics and 5 to 10 other computers were surfing the web.

Strongly considering leaving Fios. I never had problems like this when I had Cox at my old house a few years ago. Never.

[Springfield]

OK, problem solved (as of right now).

 

Using my main TV, the one with the worst quality stream, and I am able to get 1080p on the Example Short within a minute.  It maintains the 1080p for at least 3 minutes as I'm typing this.

 

All it took was for me to upgrade my service.  I am now a proud (joke!) new subscriber of Fios Quantum 50/25.

 

 

A couple caveats.  As I was typing, the signal degraded to 720p and then went back up to 1080p, which to the human eye isn't noticable so I'm not worried.  Also, it's 9:23AM which is probably the easiest time for streaming.  I'll need to check again at 8:00 or 9:00 tonight when Netflix peak hours are sure to be.

[Titaw]

I'm actually writing a paper on this, the reason Netflix is being throttled by Verizon is kinda dirty. Red box and Verizon have partnered up and will soon offer a service similar to that of Netflix & they are intentionally throttling the Netflix content because they want the uninformed customer to say, "every other website works fine I guess the problem is Netflix." Netflix has enjoyed net neutrality and does have agreements in place with virtually all other SIPs but not Verizon because they are about to have a dog in the fight.

[Springfield]

Well that was short lived. After getting everything started working fine I started testing things on multiple devices. Back to square one.

Same results on the same devices.

So I got pissed and tried the following:

Moved the Fios router downstairs and plugged the Ethernet directly into the TV. No help. Went to the browser built into the TV and fouf a website that was non-flashed based for a bandwidth speed test. Bandwidth at my TV was 9 Mbps down. Plugged te same Ethernet cable directly into my laptop right after, 58 Mbps down.

So I put the router back upstairs and brought my PS4 downstairs. Over wifi no help. Connected to Ethernet the PS4 seems to be in HD. This is far from optimal but perhaps evidence that the issue is in my TV's networking rather than Fios or Netflix.

[I_Bleed_B&G]

Do you have a chromecast device to try netflix through it?

[Springfield]

I don't, however I could get one to borrow from my work. I'd be skeptical to it working though. I have had mixed success at best with my iphone, ps4 and laptop.

[chipwhich]

So I put the router back upstairs and brought my PS4 downstairs. Over wifi no help. Connected to Ethernet the PS4 seems to be in HD. This is far from optimal but perhaps evidence that the issue is in my TV's networking rather than Fios or Netflix.

 

Aren't you the same person having wireless problems a month or so ago?

 

Your posts make no sense now other than as responded to earlier your Fios wireless router is the issue.

[Springfield]

Aren't you the same person having wireless problems a month or so ago?

Your posts make no sense now other than as responded to earlier your Fios wireless router is the issue.

Yeah, but I no longer have wireless issues. This appears to be an issue that is specific to Netflix.

The wifi issues were a result of the router broadcasting in b/g and not n.

[chipwhich]

Yeah, but I no longer have wireless issues. This appears to be an issue that is specific to Netflix.

The wifi issues were a result of the router broadcasting in b/g and not n.

 

If you plug your laptop directly into ethernet and get 58 mbps down and you can't get it working correctly over wireless then it's still your wireless issue or user error.

 

You should be able to still get max speed on your wireless.

[Springfield]

If you plug your laptop directly into ethernet and get 58 mbps down and you can't get it working correctly over wireless then it's still your wireless issue or user error.

You should be able to still get max speed on your wireless.

If I plug Ethernet into my TV or PS4 I still can't get Netflix to stream in HD.

Except for Avengers. For some reason that movie jumps up to 1080p in less than 30 seconds.

[chipwhich]

If I plug Ethernet into my TV or PS4 I still can't get Netflix to stream in HD.

Except for Avengers. For some reason that movie jumps up to 1080p in less than 30 seconds.

 

You can't get your laptop to stream Netflix properly direct connected to ethernet?

[Springfield]

You can't get your laptop to stream Netflix properly direct connected to ethernet?

Hmm, I never even thought to try that.

Nope. If anything it's worse.

At 1:00 - 235 Kbps

At 2:00 - 375 Kbps

At 3:00 - 375 Kbps

At 4:00 - 750 Kbps (was teetering on 1050 Kbps)

At 4:30 - 235 Kbps (****ing seriously?)

At 5:30 - back to 375 Kbps I quit.

If I can't get to full HD after 5 minutes of watching there is a problem. Hell I couldn't even get to full SD after 5 minutes of watching.

This is at my laptop, plugged directly into the router, which just tested at 58 Mbps download.

[Springfield]

OK, I contacted Netflix who I believe to be the problem.  Naturally they say this is an ISP issue and all their servers are running great.  So I call Verizon.  The claim it isn't their problem because my download speeds are A-OK and netflix is the only one with the issue.

 

Verizon had me run a tracert.  Perhaps folks who know neworking better can tell me what this means...

 

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
Copyright © 2009 Microsoft Corporation.  All rights reserved.

C:\Windows\system32>tracert www.netflix.com

Tracing route to www.us-east-1.prodaa.netflix.com [50.17.181.2]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  Wireless_Broadband_Router.home [192.168.1.1]
  2     8 ms    16 ms     8 ms  L100.WASHDC-VFTTP-113.verizon-gni.net [96.255.80
.1]
  3    12 ms    12 ms    10 ms  G0-10-1-1.WASHDC-LCR-22.verizon-gni.net [130.81.
188.22]
  4    11 ms    13 ms    22 ms  ae5-0.RES-BB-RTR2.verizon-gni.net [130.81.209.22
2]
  5    13 ms    12 ms    12 ms  0.ae2.BR3.IAD8.ALTER.NET [152.63.7.221]
  6     *       13 ms     *     dcp-brdr-03.inet.qwest.net [63.235.40.49]
  7     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  8    14 ms    45 ms    11 ms  72.165.86.74
  9    14 ms    13 ms    12 ms  205.251.245.21
 10    41 ms    14 ms    13 ms  205.251.245.41
 11     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 12     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 13     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 14    19 ms    16 ms    20 ms  216.182.224.237
 15     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 16     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 17     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 18     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 19     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 20     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 21     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 22     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 23     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 24     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 25     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 26     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 27     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 28     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 29     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 30     *        *        *     Request timed out.

Trace complete.

 

I understand that this means that many of the packets are being lost.  Verizon claims that this is on Netflix's end and the limited research I've done would seem to support this.  Maybe someone with better network knowledge could inform me better.

[chipwhich]

Why would Netflix be a problem LOL.  Netflix is simply a host on the internet responding to your requests.

 

Your traceroute isn't anything abnormal.

 

What is your rate if you do a speedtest to california from your laptop?  http://www.speedtest.net/

 

Fios isn't throttling you to the levels you have posted so my first guess would be user error, nothing else makes sense.  It works fine for me on Fios and on Comcast.

[HOF44]

Have you tried changing your DNS server? I think googles are 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4

Just a shot in the dark.

[I_Bleed_B&G]

Maybe you have a bad router? Buy your own and get rid of the crappy router Verizon gives you

[chipwhich]

Maybe you have a bad router? Buy your own and get rid of the crappy router Verizon gives you

 

LOL I told him to get a new router with his last issue.  I had a similar issue with his previous issue, our router was bad.

[Springfield]

To San Francisco c

 

Why would Netflix be a problem LOL.  Netflix is simply a host on the internet responding to your requests.

 

Your traceroute isn't anything abnormal.

 

What is your rate if you do a speedtest to california from your laptop?  http://www.speedtest.net/

 

Fios isn't throttling you to the levels you have posted so my first guess would be user error, nothing else makes sense.  It works fine for me on Fios and on Comcast.

 

To CA, my DL speed is 3.8 Mbps from one server and slower from another.

 

I tend to agree that user error is the cause.  I just wish I could figure out what I've done to screw it up.

 

 

Have you tried changing your DNS server? I think googles are 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4

Just a shot in the dark.

 

Tried them both.  Neither help.

 

Maybe you have a bad router? Buy your own and get rid of the crappy router Verizon gives you

As far as I'm aware I have to use Fios' crappy router because I have TV and internet through them.

[HOF44]

You have a routing issue for sure. You should not be getting timeouts lke that so early in the trace if the problem is Netflix. Not sure if you can with FIOS, but I'd ditch the company router if possible, I kept having intermittent outages with comcast and they assured me it was no problem on their end. I returned their modem, bought a Motorola surfboard and AirPort Extreme and have had zero issues since. Their default position is its your fault or somebody else, never them.