SteveFromYellowstone Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Specifically, what changed in Hollywood to get us from people making movies like E.T. , Vertigo, 2001 A Space Odyssey, etc... to making Superhero Movie 5 (part 2) and Transformers 10? I Steven Spielberg said that Lincoln was very very close to being an HBO movie because studios didn't want to pick it up. It amazes me that Spielberg had to fight for this. I understand movies are about making money but why the huge change? TV is better than movies now. I haven't been to a theatre in 2 or 3 years and I don't believe I'm missing much. Episode 4 of True Detective was more compelling than any movie I've seen in a long time. The movie Purge gets made into a franchise but Spielberg almost has to put Lincoln on TV? Give me a break. Is this just a new generation of people in power? Is this reflection a larger change in corporate or American culture? Is this country just getting dumber and the studios now cater to the lowest common denominator or what? I just find it so discouraging Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chew Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Dude...I just had this conversation for like 30 minutes with a coworker at lunch. TV is now better than movies. You have so much more freedom with television. More time to develop characters, back stories, side stories, a ton of characters, etc. Television has years, where as movies have just two hours. I love movies, probably my favorite hobby. But I'm also a TV junky, and with shows like True Detective, Walking Dead, Justified, Luther, Boardwalk Empire, Shamless, Black Sails, etc...they're destroying the box office movies right now. Hell, even netflix series like Orange is the New Black and House of Cards are pretty darn solid. I'd rather sit at home and spend 4-5 hours catching up on all my favorite shows on a Saturday afternoon than go to the movies. It's safer at home anyway. If I spill my popcorn on the guy in front of me in a theater, I might get shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 You answered your own question. TV and other media have killed movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 "Get off my lawn." By that, I mean to point out that Hollywood does still make serious, and great movies, and also that you are grumpy old men complaining about the good ole days unfairly. Coincidentally, while you complain about the redundancy of super hero movies, you point to ET as a period of time in which great filmmaking was being undertaken. Its the same year that Rocky III, Star Trek III and Grease 2 were made. All suck ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Movies are all about money to justify big budgets so they go with what sells the most and, unfortunately, right now what sells the most is mostly drivel. Same with the music industry, it caters to the lowest common denominator and biggest money spenders, which are mostly the young who mostly have unrefined tastes due to lack of experience. But, at the same time, for all the old classic movies, there are a ton of crappy ones we have forgotten with the passage of time. So while part of it is degradation, another part is that the decline isn't as bad as we think it is, we just remember the good and forget the bad, case in point Waterworld. It's also funny Vertigo gets brought up because, IIRC, that movie was not well-recived in its time but became a classic over time. Look at all-time grossing movies in the U.S. http://www.imdb.com/boxoffice/alltimegross All at the top are big budget movies. Some are good though, like AVengers and Dark Knight, but you don't get to Academy Award winners until the 20s. Here's the list for Best Movie Oscar Winners: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_Award_for_Best_Picture Argo (should have been Lincoln), The Artist, The King's Speech, The Hurt Locker, Slum Dog Millionaire, No County For Old Men all solid movies, some great. Though I will say the 90s was amazing with the winners it had. I think there has been some slide in general overall quality, but I think it's more due to an oversaturation of the movie market, as in more are being made than before so we take more notice, as well as we forget bad movies but remember greats with time passing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybrant Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I love movies, probably my favorite hobby. But I'm also a TV junky, and with shows like True Detective, Walking Dead, Justified, Luther, Boardwalk Empire, Shamless, Black Sails, etc...they're destroying the box office movies right now. Hell, even netflix series like Orange is the New Black and House of Cards are pretty darn solid. Your show list looks a lot like mine. True Detective - Check (This show is insane and quickly becoming a favorite) Walking Dead - Check (my favorite show since Breaking Bad is gone *sadface*) Justified - Check Boardwalk Empire - Check Shameless - Check Game of Thrones is up there for me as well. I definitely find myself WAY more into shows than I am movies now though. Which is completely the opposite of how I was 5 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Hollywood needs the serial. They could even spin it as retro. If the only way you could see what happened to Walter White was to go to the theater a lot of us would. I don't want to shoot us in our collective feet (because I like being able to watch Walt at home) but there's room for a more expensively produced and less frequently shown version of the the type of serials that are doing so well on tv. Let us get to know an actor as a character over time and a lot of loyalty would be the result. I think this is what Marvel/Warner/DC is doing now for comic characters but I don't see why it should be limited to characters that already exist. Hollywood has the cash, do they have the patience to suffer through the failures that tv can afford to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Movies have never been any different. Every year there's a handful of seruious movies, and a lot of profit driven dreck. always has been. In the past movies had to rely more on story and dialogue to further the action, now special effects can do much of the work. People want to be thrilled in the movies, and they always have. Most of the time, the really good films that get made, things by Coen Brothers, etc.. they are given limited release and by and large many people don't see it. any of the movies that become serious film classics are iven re-releases after awards draw attention to them and perk interest, and then they do alright box office. Comics and superheroes are tailor made for profit, and again, they always have. Serials is all they are, but now they're 2 hours. Superheroes have been around since the Golden Age of Hollywood.. superman, Batman, Rocketeer, Flash gordon, the Shadow, Spy Smasher.. all of these had many serials made about them. And they did it because they were popular.. AND they didn't really require much budget. Special effects were nothing back then,, a candle or a sparklet shoved in the back of a model rocket hanging on a wire.. it was the best they could do unless they wanted to spend 6 years making every one of them like King Kong. (Which was a HUGE box office success.) comics and superheroes are well recognized established characters with a built in audience that stretches over every living generation who has been craving this ever since the first 5 yr old said to himself "Hey,, i can see the wires!" Their stories are already serialized, people have been buying Batman comics since 1939, and he's as popular as ever.. not just due to movies.. his comics and books still sell all over the world. These characters are American Mythos. in the old days,, and i mean the old days, not the 80s... theaters were single screen, and film distribution was not as it is now. Folks my age will likely remember hearing their parents say "We'll go see that if it comes somewhere close by". So in those days the more serious movies naturally made their way to a lot of places. but in the interim, Roger Corman and Samuel Z. Arkoff made a great living releasing things like "Attack of the Flying saucers" and "Carnosaur" A lot of TV is just smaller versions of their parent movie studios. They have budgets to work with now. HBO has a great model in that they are subscribe only, and offer a GREAT product. So people buy it. That's why i buy HBO)< for the series. I can't remember the last time i watched a movie or special on there.. but their series are top shelf. They can be choosy and take their time and tell some truly great stories. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chew Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Your show list looks a lot like mine. True Detective - Check (This show is insane and quickly becoming a favorite) Walking Dead - Check (my favorite show since Breaking Bad is gone *sadface*) Justified - Check Boardwalk Empire - Check Shameless - Check Game of Thrones is up there for me as well. You my friend, have got good taste. I need to get into GoT as well, hear nothing but great things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Also, there is A LOT of terrible TV out there. The "reality" shows themselves are helping ruin America. The difference is TV provides way more options than movies, so there are more good options out there than there are at the movies. For every crappy Transformer/Michael Bay aka son of Satan movie, there's also Honey Boo-Boo, Keeping Up with the Kardashians, "Insert Object here" Wars, MTV's entire line up, etc.But, it works for good stuff too. For every Lincoln, 12 Years A Slave, Wolf of Wall Street, you have HBO's almost entire line-up, including Game of Thrones, True Detective, Boardwalk Empire, we have access to BBC's Sherlock, Breaking Bad, Walking Dead, The Blacklist, etc. I think another element is that we had a glut of good new TV shows this season, which is rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 One of my "old geezer rants" about movies is: How come, every three movies, we have to hire a new director, and the first thing the new director wants to do is to tell an origin story again? Seems like we've had like 7 Superman movies (and at least 2 TV series). And almost half of them are "The origin of Superman". We've rebooted Batman, how many times? Did we really need to reboot Spiderman? What have we had, two movies and it's time to start over? I get the impression that these characters have over a thousand comics, each. But after two movies, it's time to start over? Who's making these things, George Lucas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 It shouldn't be surprising that TV shows can be better than movies. The format allows for a more complicated storyline and much better character development. Also, 2001 A Space Odyssey, is total **** and may be the most over rated movie ever made. Well, I feel better. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 2001 A Space Odyssey, is total **** and may be the most over rated movie ever made. Well, I feel better. Carry on. Didn't read the book, did you? I'm not making fun of you. It's just my experience that, outside of special effects that wouldn't be matched for probably 20 years (and scientific accuracy that probably still hasn't been equaled), that people seem to fall into two categories: 1). People who read the book, and think it's one of the best stories ever, and pretty much perfectly told. 2). And people who didn't read the book, and were completely clueless as to WTF was going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 2001 A Space Odyssey, is total **** and may be the most over rated movie ever made. Well, I feel better. Carry on. I feel the same way about The Creature From The Black Lagoon. Painful. My main gripe with movies is special effects, and overall unoriginality. I will applaud a movie that bombs, if it offers a different style... Something that hasn't been done before, or done a certain way, from a certain viewpoint, etc. At least they weren't afraid to try something new. I get why most major companies prefer to go with whats safe, but as a consumer, I am just not a fan of it. Horror is probably my most favorite genre, and I think it suffers the most, with the endless array of possession, or "Exorcism Of ___" movies, or found footage movies. As for special effects, it is just a massive turnoff when it is done to a massive degree. I feel more of a connection with real locales (at least as far as on set is concerned. If it was some science fiction movie, a planetary shot doesn't bother me), suits,makeup, and animatronics. Everytime I hear of some companies needing a massive budget for CGI porn, I think back to movies like Aliens and Jurrassic Park, where what you saw 20-30 years ago is infinitely more realistic than what we see now. I also think it helps the actors when they get to react to something that is really in front of them, instead of a mop in a greenroom. I also think of the movie Congo, where even though it was a largely forgettable movie (and one of my ****ty favorites), I lauded the creative team for putting actors in suits, where they truly looked like real, crazed killer gorillas. That is part of the reason why I couldn't really fully appreciate that Planet of The Apes reboot that came out a couple years back. It all just looks so overdone and fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Well, that's just because Roddy McDowell was able to do such fantastic acting, while wearing such gobs of makeup. Pity his voice is so distinctive, so every time he spoke, after that, people thought of him as a monkey. (Case you can't tell, I think he deserves FAR more credit than a lot of people give him). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 The attention to detail AND for the most part, actors were better. Classic movies like The Empire Strikes Back and Superman: The Movie would be considered boring if they were made today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No_Pressure Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I'd say the only difference is, the movies made to grab money from stupid people these days cost more money to see (I have no comparative statistics here adjusted for inflation, but I think its pretty obvious) and they're more blatantly ripping off classic stories, themes, books, or other movies. There will be some popular comic book character and they'll have a movie about him. Then the quality begins to decline and the series is dumped. Then there is a re-boot. Then a re-re-boot. There was always schlock. Dumb comedy, poorly produced action/adventure, sappy romance, etc. I'd say the only genre which didn't exist was the over-blown CGI/3D idiotfests produced by the likes of Michael Bay these days. They're uniquely here to target 1 demographic: dumb men who like sports cars, bewbs, stereotypes, 'splosions, and computer generated scenes of overblown action and crazy things happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Another peeve of mine is that there seems to be a weird "Lets modernize classic folklore tales and give it a 21st centrury cgi makeover!" thing going on. It just seems beyond overkill. It killed overkill and ran it over 30 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wysknz1 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I don't and never have watched many movies. But in my opinion it is that they "MAKE" movies now. I mean half of most movies are like a video game. All computer this and that. Really I don't think any one even knows how to act.If Hollywood can't develop it on a computer screen they don't know what to do. I never watched Shirley Temple growing up. But on her recent passing they showed some clips of her acting. Now there was an actress. No one and I mean no one today can do what she did acting. Also I lose interest in the last few movies I've tried to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 we just remember the good and forget the bad, case in point Waterworld. Am I the only person in the world who likes Waterworld? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Am I the only person in the world who likes Waterworld? There are two of us. I was entertained Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I was pretty young when that came out.My dad took me to see it. I remember it being a pretty big deal. And then it all disappeared like a fart in the wind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I didn't mind Waterworld either. I remember thinking it would be so cool to be in that world and be lucky enough to have a jet ski/waverunner handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I also liked Waterworld. The real question is who else like the Postman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 "Get off my lawn." By that, I mean to point out that Hollywood does still make serious, and great movies, and also that you are grumpy old men complaining about the good ole days unfairly. Coincidentally, while you complain about the redundancy of super hero movies, you point to ET as a period of time in which great filmmaking was being undertaken. Its the same year that Rocky III, Star Trek III and Grease 2 were made. All suck ****. As a near 40 year old.....Rocky III and STIII did not suck. Now get off my lawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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