Burgold Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 There's one great advantage to the economy of raising the min. These people spend and would allow more money to circulate through the economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 If the average salary of the bottom 50 percent raises 15 percent, and the cost of goods raises 15 percent. What have we solved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 There's one great advantage to the economy of raising the min. These people spend and would allow more money to circulate through the economy. lol, no. Or more precisely, that money circulating through the economy would simply become the new normal. The essentials of life would increase in cost and those people who just got a raise would see that raise being spent on food, gas, and essentials. It's only going to get worse. Eventually companies will stop hiring people to work min wage and simply install machines to do it instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 If the average salary of the bottom 50 percent raises 15 percent, and the cost of goods raises 15 percent. What have we solved? While it's guaranteed that raising wages will cause inflation (and all the good and bad things that go along with that), it's not that hard to demonstrate that the amounts cannot be identical. The simple way to express the concept is to observe that the cost of pretty much nothing is 100% labor. lol, no. Or more precisely, that money circulating through the economy would simply become the new normal. The essentials of life would increase in cost and those people who just got a raise would see that raise being spent on food, gas, and essentials. See previous post. It's only going to get worse. Eventually companies will stop hiring people to work min wage and simply install machines to do it instead. Now, THAT'S a consequence that no doubt will affect SOME workers. In any economic shift, it's guaranteed that there will be some individuals who will benefit, and some will lose. What's debatable is whether one group will outweigh the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 If the average salary of the bottom 50 percent raises 15 percent, and the cost of goods raises 15 percent. What have we solved? they would also see the earned income credit(one of the things those talking about the minimum wage not rising ignore) benefit drop and more taxes withdrawn. what it will do is encourage more employers to use part timers,especially with the ACA affect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan since a Fetus Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I used to have a mentally handicapped person who worked for me. He was the most reliable worker I ever had. Always on time, always working and never had a negative thing to say. He was also promoted to a full time employee before everyone else. If you needed him to work extra, it was always a yes. He didn't work as fast as some guys and gals, but I could count on him. He always did a fantastic job as well. I will never forget the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 what it will do is encourage more employers to use part timers,especially with the ACA affect Yeah, because, when wages go up, they don't go up for part timers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I used to have a mentally handicapped person who worked for me. He was the most reliable worker I ever had. Always on time, always working and never had a negative thing to say. He was also promoted to a full time employee before everyone else. If you needed him to work extra, it was always a yes. He didn't work as fast as some guys and gals, but I could count on him. He always did a fantastic job as well. I will never forget the guy. Awesome! Always good to know that dependability & work ethic still count for something! (OT, but I've wanted to tell you that your avatar never fails to make me giggle...more than it should...LOL). Hail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan since a Fetus Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Awesome! Always good to know that dependability & work ethic still count for something! (OT, but I've wanted to tell you that your avatar never fails to make me giggle...more than it should...LOL). Hail! I looked up gay Tom Brady because I am always making fun of my Pats friend, and I found this. Creepy, but funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Most of what talking about is the kids working. If inflation is bring up the cost of living so be it but a 15 year old has no business being paid the same as some doing it for a living.Really?At lunch today get in your car and go to ANY fast food restaurant, and count the number of 15 year olds working there, for that matter count the total number of employees under 18 years old. Post your results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Paint Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Saying what he said about mentally handicapped people is pretty terrible. That said, I have really no sympathy for McDonalds or other minimum wage workers demanding a "living wage." They're called entry level jobs for a reason. If you're a full grown adult demanding that you be able to support your entire family on wages from extremely low level/low skill jobs, you've got more problems than the price of minimum wage in this country. I used to think this way, but now, times are different. A few decades ago, adults with little skill probably had a factory job that paid double or triple of what McDonalds did. This country has outsourced so many jobs and if you factor in population growth, a lot of people take what they can get. The McDonalds I go to on occasion has no teens working there from what I've seen. It's all adults. 30 years ago, these same type of adults probably would've worked in manufacturing making much more money. Not everyone can get a nice government job or become an engineer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Really? At lunch today get in your car and go to ANY fast food restaurant, and count the number of 15 year olds working there, for that matter count the total number of employees under 18 years old. Post your results. Even better, count the small number of employees there at all, and think of everything that has to be done to ensure a quick, safe product made in a clean atmosphere. (Dangit, out of likes again...) edit: well said, War Paint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 While it's guaranteed that raising wages will cause inflation (and all the good and bad things that go along with that), it's not that hard to demonstrate that the amounts cannot be identical. The simple way to express the concept is to observe that the cost of pretty much nothing is 100% labor. See previous post. Now, THAT'S a consequence that no doubt will affect SOME workers. In any economic shift, it's guaranteed that there will be some individuals who will benefit, and some will lose. What's debatable is whether one group will outweigh the other. You're assuming that businesses wont take the opportuity to raise prices to pass along to the consumer. I think there is an argument that raising the minimum wage will actual hurt the bottom 50% more than it will help them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I would love the unintended consequence of fast food in this country dying a quick death because of a higher minumum wage. We don't need McDonald's. We don't need Walmart's low low prices/quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I would love the unintended consequence of fast food in this country dying a quick death because of a higher minumum wage. We don't need McDonald's. We don't need Walmart's low low prices/quality. Without those places, what is the affect on the bottom 50%s family budget? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Without those places, what is the affect on the bottom 50%s family budget? Better nutrition & clothes that last longer than 5 washes? /sarcasm edit: oops, that's on "life", not budget, sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Better nutrition & clothes that last longer than 5 washes? /sarcasm edit: oops, that's on "life", not budget, sorry I agree though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 You're assuming that businesses wont take the opportuity to raise prices to pass along to the consumer. I think there is an argument that raising the minimum wage will actual hurt the bottom 50% more than it will help them. Now, a valid point. I've been a McD employee when the minimum wage goes up. Some numbers: The store's gross labor percentage was 17%. For every dollar taken in at the register, 17 cents went to the employees. The minimum wage went up by 10%. This means that the store's costs went up by 10% of 17% = 1.7%. The store raised their prices by 10%. And ordered every employee to tell any customer who commented about the price increase that the increase was because the minimum wage went up. Now, examine this. The store's costs went up by 1.7%. Their prices went up by 10% The other 8.2% is going to the owner. And that's 8.7% of gross sales, not 8.7% of what he used to be making. How much of gross sales WAS he making? 1%? (Did he just give himself an 800% pay hike?) Was he making 10% of gross? (More than half of the pay of all of his employees, combined? In which case, he only gave himself a raise from 10% of gross, to 18%?) ---------- Now, though. Let's assume this scenario is correct. That people will seize on a Min Wage increase as an opportunity to give the owner a huge pay hike. 1) Do you assume it will last? That there won't be competitive forces on the business, pushing prices down? I assume that many businesses would LIKE an excuse to raise prices, and give the owner a big raise. But, will they be able to get away with it? 2) Why don't they just do it now, if there aren't competitive forces, pushing prices downward? 3) If something like this happens, then is it the Minimum Wage's fault? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I seem to recall complaints about how people can't get ahead like they used to....related maybe? ? related to the minimum wage over the last 50 years not keeping up with inflation, or currently being at historic lows for purchasing power? Or related to the failed attempts to raise it? Just want to see how far down this rabit hole goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Great post, Larry. The greedy(ier) companies will raise prices, and the companies that don't will probably reap the benefit in added sales, forcing the others to come back down & compete. And the argument that these are the folks who must immediately spend their earnings,(likely "already spent"), helping the overall economy, cannot be overstated, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I think it will last because the same market forces apply today, and they are still paying people minimum wage and maximising there profits. I dont have faith that a scorpion will change. And it's not the minimum wages fault. It's nobodys fault. It's market capitalism. In my business, I make enough profits to pay everyone in my office more. But I dont. I like the profits. And they must like working for what I pay, because I have only lost 2 employees over the last 5 years. It's alot more than minimum wage, but Im sure they could all use more. Great post, Larry. The greedy(ier) companies will raise prices, and the companies that don't will probably reap the benefit in added sales, forcing the others to come back down & compete. And the argument that these are the folks who must immediately spend their earnings,(likely "already spent"), helping the overall economy, cannot be overstated, imo. Yes. You and he are both absolutely correct. So shouldnt we address the real problem and not just make it worse? I dont have the answer BTW, I just dont think raising the minimum wage will work to accomplish the goal. I think it's nothing more than a political talking point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I guess my pov is that it's more of a starting point to the overall picture, which is that trickle-down doesn't work, and it's what we're stuck in. Wealth can flow from bottom to top, but only if the bottom gets a fair shake and at least somewhat of an even chance as the wealthy. Just my pennies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I guess my pov is that it's more of a starting point to the overall picture, which is that trickle-down doesn't work, and it's what we're stuck in. Wealth can flow from bottom to top, but only if the bottom gets a fair shake and at least somewhat of an even chance as the wealthy. Just my pennies. I agree, but the answer isnt to raise wages on jobs that shouldnt pay more, its to create jobs that pay more in the first place. It's to create a culture where education is valued and demanded in every household, in every community. It's rewarding innovation. It's realizing that our schools are failing, and addressing them locally, not with some national program that forces square pegs into round holes (IE, do you think my wifes kindergarten class filled with migrant workers can pick out what a pair of galoshes looks like on a standardized test?) But when politicians argue about whether the minimum wage should be 7 or 10 dollars, it not only ignores the point entirely, it allows the subject matter to become just another political fight for Rachel and Sean to scream about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rictus58 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I agree, but the answer isnt to raise wages on jobs that shouldnt pay more, its to create jobs that pay more in the first place. And you are in the position to do that no? But you don't. and I'm not saying your a jerk or anything like that, but you have the ability to pay people more, but you don't. because YOU like making more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 It's realizing that our schools are failing, Depends on your definition of failing. They are producing a supply of workers who are willing to operate McDonalds and Wal-Mart for less than $8 per hour. It seems we are producing plenty of great students for the elite colleges too, who have a great opportunity of a wonderful and affluent life. The difference between the "golden days" of the American middle classes and what's emerging now is that there are far fewer opportunities for reasonably paying factory work, and white-collar administration and lower/middle management. Do people in power care that the American lower middle class is destined to not have the pretty good life they used to? Do they think growing and extreme income inequality is bad for them at the top, absent armed revolution? (IE, do you think my wifes kindergarten class filled with migrant workers can pick out what a pair of galoshes looks like on a standardized test?) LOL. Those dumbasses probably don't even know what the proper attire is for a pre-dinner drink at the yacht club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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