The "Honeymoon" phase

[sharkproof]

Though I don't post here all that often through the years, I've been a Redskin fan for longer than I want to admit, (not because of the Redskins slide since it's glory years) but being that it's over 40 years is more than I'd wish it.  

 

That being said, I think that I have a fairly good grasp on the teams history and how things have changed and have remained the same.  The changes are obvious since JK Cooke decided to have the team put up for sale vs giving it to his heirs.  

 

Since Dan Snyder bought the team there has been a complete lack of stability and continuity, but one thing has been a constant...  

 

The "Honeymoon" phase.  Whether it's the big free agent acquisition or a splashy new hire at Head Coach, the fans have been "wed" to something new to fall in love with (or not).  Granted not all fans fall in love with the new "thang" but most by and large attempt to make the best of the the new marriage.  Certainly there are detractors but as I say by an large most were ready to cast away the old bride and ready to take on a new one.

 

The players to me are more like affairs by and large, but the coaches more like marriages.  I say this because Coaches are meant to bring a fresh start and positive change to the team. 

 

So really the Honeymoon that I refer to is between the fans and it's new coaches.  

 

What the old coach did wasn't right and what the new coach says is perfect... Even if they are saying the same thing...

 

Somehow, however, because it's a new Bride... all shiny, pretty and new... It's ok.  That old bride... well she just wasn't gonna cut it.

 

Well once again I find it ironic reading these boards and seeing how not only how history repeats itself, but that the collective memories seem so short.  

 

It seems as though our new Bride is going to do some of the exact same things with our QB that our QB really stated he didn't want to do, and many of the fans have been clamoring for since the losing set in this season.  Somehow our QB intimated that he thought his coaches didn't like him... But one can find sound bites from last season that were nothing short of the coaches calling the QB the greatest thing since Ringling Bros.   However, once it was apparent that the QB couldn't play the position the way he had his first season then it was up to the coaches to change/teach him how to play differently than he had ever before... This however ended up being not doable and the once perfect Bride was cast aside as really not all that special regardless of their past.

 

However, the new Bride... well no matter what they say... It's all perfect, it's all gonna work out.  

 

I just know this one... is the right one... I just know it.  

 

Regardless..

 

Nothing like a great "Honeymoon"

 

 

[Laron Burgundy]

I don't believe in a honeymoon period with this hire.  You have a ton of cap space and Shanahan did a good job of getting our roster younger.  Unless Orakpo leaves in free agency, we won't be losing any big contributors.  This is more or less the same team that won 10 games in 2012, I feel like, after all the cap room we now have, that less than 7 wins will be enough to fire after one year.  6 wins won't cut it when you have a fairly clean slate in a weak division.

[Burgold]

Reading the board, there is a pervasive sense of gloom.  Perhaps after the draft or the afterglow of free agency you'll see a honeymoon, but right now there is a lot of negativity, bitterness, and angry skepticism.

 

Gruden does deserve a honeymoon or at least a grace period.  The old coach did do A LOT wrong.  The new guy should be given the benefit of the doubt and more than that a hearty hail and a clap on the back.

[sharkproof]

I don't believe in a honeymoon period with this hire.  You have a ton of cap space and Shanahan did a good job of getting our roster younger.  Unless Orakpo leaves in free agency, we won't be losing any big contributors.  This is more or less the same team that won 10 games in 2012, I feel like, after all the cap room we now have, that less than 7 wins will be enough to fire after one year.  6 wins won't cut it when you have a fairly clean slate in a weak division.

Shanny did a good enough job here to have the VAST majority here screaming for his head on a platter.  While I agree that he did a good job given the circumstances he found when he arrived it wasn't good enough four years into his deal, regardless whether his new franchise QB blew out his knee and wasn't close to the same player he drafted.  I blame both of them for that debacle equally, if not possibly more on RG as he knows his body as we all do better than any doctor or coach.  I can speak to this personally as I am one month out of having the same surgery that RG had last year.  Regardless, Shanny got the axe, cause the honeymoon ended vs. Seattle.  RG's honeymoon with Shanny ended when he was calling for becoming a pocket passer, and less running plays etc being called... This season was doomed as was the marriage before the flight returning back from last years honeymoon touched down.  Now this year we have a new guy from the same tree that Shanny came from, and as i read it here... Well he isn't calling for a much different approach then what Shanny did year 1 with our "Franchise".  Seems that the book is out and printed on what type of QB we have and that is that.  Though many here were calling for a new teacher, teaching what that Shanny couldn't  with no off season.  However now that's all ok... Seems to me that this is a Honeymoon.  Maybe not for all here, but I don't see how all that much has changed except for the usual euphoria over a new bride that's signed on.

[Laron Burgundy]

Shanny did a good enough job here to have the VAST majority here screaming for his head on a platter.  While I agree that he did a good job given the circumstances he found when he arrived it wasn't good enough four years into his deal, regardless whether his new franchise QB blew out his knee and wasn't close to the same player he drafted.  I blame both of them for that debacle equally, if not possibly more on RG as he knows his body as we all do better than any doctor or coach.  I can speak to this personally as I am one month out of having the same surgery that RG had last year.  Regardless, Shanny got the axe, cause the honeymoon ended vs. Seattle.  RG's honeymoon with Shanny ended when he was calling for becoming a pocket passer, and less running plays etc being called... This season was doomed as was the marriage before the flight returning back from last years honeymoon touched down.  Now this year we have a new guy from the same tree that Shanny came from, and as i read it here... Well he isn't calling for a much different approach then what Shanny did year 1 with our "Franchise".  Seems that the book is out and printed on what type of QB we have and that is that.  Though many here were calling for a new teacher, teaching what that Shanny couldn't  with no off season.  However now that's all ok... Seems to me that this is a Honeymoon.  Maybe not for all here, but I don't see how all that much has changed except for the usual euphoria over a new bride that's signed on.

 

When you look at the roster Shanny inherited, and the cap problems, and look at what we have now I think it's obvious that this was a pretty solid job considering the cap penalties.  He said he needed 5 years, and this would be technically the 5th year of the rebuild.  We didn't need different playcalling on offense, just everyone was so angry at Shanahan that it was probably for the best he didn't go into year 5.  People were cheering for an execution.  So instead we have a guy who will probably call a similar gameplan (perhaps actually more pass happy).

 

I don't pretend to think Gruden is a better coach than Shanahan.  My hope is that the roster and cap space is set up in a way that we can succeed sooner rather than later with an influx of talent.

[88Comrade2000]

Unless Gruden goes 3-13 or worse; it will  not be one and done.

 

 

Gruden and Bruce's tenure will be judged on how they get RG3 to live to his potential and how successful there players are and if they can get the rest of Shanny's players to live to their potential.  If Shanny's players other than RG3 don't live up to potential next year; they won't be here but the blame won't be placed on them.  It will be placed on Shanny for drafting,signing bums.

 

 

Does Gruden get a honeymoon, probably not, but he will get time.  Unless he's utterly clueless as head coach; Gruden will get at least 3 seasons to prove he has this team on the right track.

 

Now, I know some expect winning right away and for us to go back to 2012- right befofre the playoff game.  i don't and I don't think Shanny left us with a team that can compete with the 49ers, Seahawks, Broncos, Pats for championships.  I fully expect a roster turnover over the next 2 years of at least 75% of the roster Shanny had in his finale game. 

[Laron Burgundy]

Unless Gruden goes 3-13 or worse; it will  not be one and done.

 

 

Gruden and Bruce's tenure will be judged on how they get RG3 to live to his potential and how successful there players are and if they can get the rest of Shanny's players to live to their potential.  If Shanny's players other than RG3 don't live up to potential next year; they won't be here but the blame won't be placed on them.  It will be placed on Shanny for drafting,signing bums.

 

 

Does Gruden get a honeymoon, probably not, but he will get time.  Unless he's utterly clueless as head coach; Gruden will get at least 3 seasons to prove he has this team on the right track.

 

Now, I know some expect winning right away and for us to go back to 2012- right befofre the playoff game.  i don't and I don't think Shanny left us with a team that can compete with the 49ers, Seahawks, Broncos, Pats for championships.  I fully expect a roster turnover over the next 2 years of at least 75% of the roster Shanny had in his finale game. 

 

We don't have to compete with those teams to make the playoffs though.  Beat our division and we're in.  I know it's not the final goal, but I'd say the roster Shanny left us, with a few improvements, is good enough to be top 2 in our division.  We're still a few successful offseasons from competing for nfc championships, but we're closer to that than we were 4 years ago.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Reading the board, there is a pervasive sense of gloom.  Perhaps after the draft or the afterglow of free agency you'll see a honeymoon, but right now there is a lot of negativity, bitterness, and angry skepticism.

 

Gruden does deserve a honeymoon or at least a grace period.  The old coach did do A LOT wrong.  The new guy should be given the benefit of the doubt and more than that a hearty hail and a clap on the back.

 

I was waiting for him to fire Jim Haslett for me to start my honeymoon period.  So it never got off the ground for some.

 

A grace period is we win 3-4 more games.  Our special teams can't possibly be that bad again.  RG3 should naturally improve some.  And we actually have cap space to make roster changes.

 

Those alone should be good enough for a better season.  So if we barely get 6-10, no grace period.  If we got robbed from close losses and go 6-10 or 7-9.  I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

When he brought Haslett back, that's when I felt like next season was a "no excuses" season.  No new scheme, no overhaul, no coaches unfamiliar with players.  Some position coaches and both Coordinators know the players.  There are no usual excuses for a "grace period".

[sharkproof]

When you look at the roster Shanny inherited, and the cap problems, and look at what we have now I think it's obvious that this was a pretty solid job considering the cap penalties.  He said he needed 5 years, and this would be technically the 5th year of the rebuild.  We didn't need different playcalling on offense, just everyone was so angry at Shanahan that it was probably for the best he didn't go into year 5.  People were cheering for an execution.  So instead we have a guy who will probably call a similar gameplan (perhaps actually more pass happy).

 

I don't pretend to think Gruden is a better coach than Shanahan.  My hope is that the roster and cap space is set up in a way that we can succeed sooner rather than later with an influx of talent.

I agree with your post on basically every point.  My point is that the more things change... the more they remain the same.  Thinking that Gruden is going to turn this around that much is absurd, based on he being the "X" factor that was missing.  The best thing he has going for him is that RG will have another off season to continue to heal and recover from his surgery.  It was more than obvious that he was a shadow of his freshman year in the league as he had defensive tackles running him down from behind on multiple occasions.  None the less many here are in the Honeymoon swoon that has been the running theme for a decade, and that the new "thing" is just what we needed.  The Shan Clan were genius around here in year 1 with RG and then somehow clueless the next year and it was all them.  Wonder when the Honeymoon is over if it will be all Grudes.  As I said though, he will have the benefit of a healthier RG.  Of course though he's not going to turn him into a pocket passer... Should be interesting.

[chipwhich]

We don't have to compete with those teams to make the playoffs though.  Beat our division and we're in.  I know it's not the final goal, but I'd say the roster Shanny left us, with a few improvements, is good enough to be top 2 in our division.  We're still a few successful offseasons from competing for nfc championships, but we're closer to that than we were 4 years ago.

 

I do find this post amusing.  So in the end, Shanny left us in good shape and ready to compete in a few offseasons.

If he had us primed and ready, we should have kept him.

[FuriousD]

I was waiting for him to fire Jim Haslett for me to start my honeymoon period.  So it never got off the ground for some.

 

This is it in a nutshell. 

 

The retention of Haslett did nothing to dispel the fear that cronyism trumped Allen's promise to hire coaches that lead, teach and inspire players to greatness.  And worse, it also suggested that Gruden isn't smart enough recognize mediocrity or man enough to pull the plug on mediocrity when more inspiring options were available.

 

Hence, for many this new regime smells like it's DOA.

[chipwhich]

This is it in a nutshell. 

 

The retention of Haslett did nothing to dispel the fear that cronyism trumped Allen's promise to hire coaches that lead, teach and inspire players to greatness.  And worse, it also suggested that Gruden isn't smart enough recognize mediocrity or man enough to pull the plug on mediocrity when more inspiring options were available.

 

Hence, for many this new regime smells like it's DOA.

 

While I am in no ways a Haslett fan, I do believe we consistently lack talent.

 

Look at how the Ravens churn through defensive coordinators.  Two of them worked for the Redskins.  While they were successful in Baltimore, they failed here.  Marvin Lewis led some of the stoutest defenses in Baltimore.  He stunk here.

 

Until we draft and grow our own talent, the coaching carousel will continue.

[sharkproof]

I do find this post amusing.  So in the end, Shanny left us in good shape and ready to compete in a few offseasons.

If he had us primed and ready, we should have kept him.

But then we'd miss that Just Married, every thing's gonna be alright feeling

[sharkproof]

 

Until we draft and grow our own talent, the coaching carousel will continue.

Shanny imho did that at multiple positions, but gave up quite a bit 2 years ago which remains to be seen whether it was too much.  How much the additional draft choices would have changed the complexion of the team is always an unknown.  Sean Taylor alone was a defensive game changer and changed the defense's tone as a unit.  

[chipwhich]

Shanny imho did that at multiple positions, but gave up quite a bit 2 years ago which remains to be seen whether it was too much.  How much the additional draft choices would have changed the complexion of the team is always an unknown.  Sean Taylor alone was a defensive game changer and changed the defense's tone as a unit.  

 

Shanny's problem is instead of gutting the team in year one, he waited until year 3 to build the franchise.

[Laron Burgundy]

I do find this post amusing.  So in the end, Shanny left us in good shape and ready to compete in a few offseasons.

If he had us primed and ready, we should have kept him.

 

Our roster is young and we have a ton of cap space to fill holes.  I don't know how anyone can think that is a bad thing unless they've only been a 'skins fan for a couple years and don't know our history.  When was the last time we legitimately had this much young talent on our team?  For the decade prior to Shanny we had, what, Champ (until we traded him), Samuels, Taylor, Cooley, and Orakpo for impact players we drafted.  That's the players who stick out to me and that was a whole decade worth of drafts.

 

The media ****storm is why Shanny was canned.  Personnel-wise this team is lightyears ahead of 2009 and if there wasn't so much negativity between the qb and coach he may have been given year 5.  There is no such thing as one year turnarounds in the nfl.  You build on the foundation you're given.  Shanny was given a horrible roster to work with.  The roster Gruden is inheriting is so much better.

[chipwhich]

Our roster is young and we have a ton of cap space to fill holes.  I don't know how anyone can think that is a bad thing unless they've only been a 'skins fan for a couple years and don't know our history.  When was the last time we legitimately had this much young talent on our team?  For the decade prior to Shanny we had, what, Champ (until we traded him), Samuels, Taylor, Cooley, and Orakpo for impact players we drafted.  That's the players who stick out to me and that was a whole decade worth of drafts.

 

The media ****storm is why Shanny was canned.  Personnel-wise this team is lightyears ahead of 2009 and if there wasn't so much negativity between the qb and coach he may have been given year 5.  There is no such thing as one year turnarounds in the nfl.  You build on the foundation you're given.  Shanny was given a horrible roster to work with.  The roster Gruden is inheriting is so much better.

 

You miss the point.  If Shanny put us light years ahead of 2009 then we should have kept Shanny since he did such a great job.

 

I have been watching the Redskins since Sonny, Kilmer, and Joey T were on the roster if that helps you.

[Laron Burgundy]

You miss the point.  If Shanny put us light years ahead of 2009 then we should have kept Shanny since he did such a great job.

 

I have been watching the Redskins since Sonny, Kilmer, and Joey T were on the roster if that helps you.

 

Then you know it's been a long time since we actually built through the draft, but you can't build through the draft and win immediately if you're starting with trash.  The NFL is a what have you done recently type of business, nobody lets longterm plans work themselves out if the results aren't immediate.  Like I said, he started with a trash roster and built through the draft, lived and died with the rg3 pick and thus we have his year 4 here. 

 

Debate the roster if you want to for a second, not the firing.  Do you want to take the stance that our roster isn't better equipped to win in the next 2 or 3 years than the old, untalented roster in 2009?

[FrFan]

This is it in a nutshell. 

 

The retention of Haslett did nothing to dispel the fear that cronyism trumped Allen's promise to hire coaches that lead, teach and inspire players to greatness.  And worse, it also suggested that Gruden isn't smart enough recognize mediocrity or man enough to pull the plug on mediocrity when more inspiring options were available.

 

Hence, for many this new regime smells like it's DOA.

I didn't like this interview, when Gruden said that talking about Haslett:

“ And just to have another guy to bounce ideas off of. If I have a screwed-up idea, I know he’ll tell me this is not going to work. I need people like that, who will be loyal and work their tail off and come up with good ideas.”

He is basically saying that he needs Haslett to prevent him from screwing things up and giving him ideas. he used the term 3 times in 3 sentences, looks likes he might be more clueless than competent and that his buddy Haslett (see how he praises him) might be the true HC behind him.

You shouldn't say that in the medias. I understand he is an unproven HC but you should rather focus on your own skills and what's your plan for this franchise, what are you going to bring in that you think will make a difference.

Honeymoon on this board is sometimes a synonym of hyperventilating, fans trying to dig sometimes too deep into informations/stats to find reasons to comfort themselves with the choices made (coaching, free agents). In the end we all know what where the consequences. I doubt those coaches and Allen have the ability to get us out of mediocrity any time soon, nevertheless I wish to be proven wrong, good luck to them.

[Burgold]

I didn't like this interview, when Gruden said that talking about Haslett:

“ And just to have another guy to bounce ideas off of. If I have a screwed-up idea, I know he’ll tell me this is not going to work. I need people like that, who will be loyal and work their tail off and come up with good ideas.”

He is basically saying that he needs Haslett to prevent him from screwing things up and giving him ideas. he used the term 3 times in 3 sentences, looks likes he might be more clueless than competent and that his buddy Haslett (see how he praises him) might be the true HC behind him.

.

That's not how I read that at all.  Every writer needs an editor, no matter how good you are if you are the sole filter for your work a coma will slip through or you'll forget to address an important point somewhere.  If you are the sole filter of how things work, things will eventually break down.  We've had too many coaches who were systematically rigid.  It's my way or the highway.  What we do works. 

 

I don't get why people are so worried about a guy who says he is open to input, criticism, adapting to player's strengths, adapting his scheme to his team's strengths?  That's what the best do compare the '82 'skins to the '91 skins or the 2007 'skins.  Gibbs changed it up based on personnel and found a way for us to win. 

 

It's a good thing to have a little humility.  It's probably even a good thing when you know a defensive coach is despised in the community to try to pump him up a little and say he has value.  What do you want Gruden to say... "I kept him because he's a bum and absolutely worthless?  If he says something we'll do the opposite.  Our only chance is to score 150 points a game because this guy is a constant looming iceberg to the SS Redskins."

 

You want your head coach open to ideas from his fellow coaches, players, etc.  You want a guy who's able to admit he's made a mistake and fix it... maybe even before he's made it. 

 

So, it's okay to listen to a gray beard in planning sessions.  It's okay to admit you might have a bad idea or screw up.  It's fine to say you are going to take advantage of Griffin's legs and not try to make him into Andy Dalton the second.  It's okay to have an open mind especially when you haven't even had one practice with the team yet.

[FrFan]

I didn't say he had to adapt to anything nor anyone, I was talking about showing some leadership even if he is unproven at the position. That is quite a difference with the Hard Knocks video where he wasn't shy of shouting and dropping F Bombs all over.

 

What do you want Gruden to say... "I kept him because he's a bum and absolutely worthless? 

 

You're trying to put words in my mouth here again, maybe my phrasing was not clear enough, but I was suggesting him to ignore Haslett in his press conference. Who cares about him and his record ?

You can admit your errors, flaws, that is a quality of course, but the way he did it (3 times), adding the Haslett endorsemment was out of line to me. It sounded like he was sorry or too humble.

I would have said: I'm not stubborn (putting a statement here from the previous HC) I will recognize my coaches calls and won't hesitate to change mine if necessary.

I care about Jay Gruden the head coach, what his plan is, about the future not the past (his errors, ultimately he learned from them) defining yourself by who you are, you'll do, and not through someone else.

Most important will be the production on the field, he will be judged on that, again, despite my doubts I wish him good luck.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

You miss the point.  If Shanny put us light years ahead of 2009 then we should have kept Shanny since he did such a great job.

 

No, not at all. If you want to argue he made great personnel moves, that is one thing but that was only half of his job duties while he was here. He is still a coach and his coaching failures have been well documented the past 4 years in addition to numerous other reasons for being fired like botching the Griffin relationship/injury, quitting on the team etc. He made a terrible situation into a better situation but then completely forgot to coach it and take ownership of it's failure. 

 

His firing was every bit justified. Gruden should be able to show if the talent Shanahan brought in was legitimate and his coaching was what held us back or if the talent was just extremely overrated due to the absolute lack of talent when Shanahan took over. 

 

I actually think the building blocks/core players he brought on have been great. But 3 of those are first round picks, only a 3rd potentially in Reed and a 6th in Morris have done much else. Nabbing Garcon as a FA was big too. 

 

But time will tell. 

I didn't like this interview, when Gruden said that talking about Haslett:

 

I think you are reading into that way too much

[Riggo-toni]

There is one crucial difference between new coaching hires and honeymoons.

After normal honeymoons end, the sucking stops.

[Chrisandheather2002]

I like your write up. Are you being sarcastic about the newest Bride or do you feel that GM finally got it right. I personally think that a current coordinator that has worked with a kaep or wilson is more suited for our qb but who knows. I like the fact our bride is a potential rising star and the staff is fairly young but somewhat accomplished. But until we win anything of significance, all the team's FO can sell is HOPE. HOPE. All we can do is HOPE. 

Though I don't post here all that often through the years, I've been a Redskin fan for longer than I want to admit, (not because of the Redskins slide since it's glory years) but being that it's over 40 years is more than I'd wish it.  

 

That being said, I think that I have a fairly good grasp on the teams history and how things have changed and have remained the same.  The changes are obvious since JK Cooke decided to have the team put up for sale vs giving it to his heirs.  

 

Since Dan Snyder bought the team there has been a complete lack of stability and continuity, but one thing has been a constant...  

 

The "Honeymoon" phase.  Whether it's the big free agent acquisition or a splashy new hire at Head Coach, the fans have been "wed" to something new to fall in love with (or not).  Granted not all fans fall in love with the new "thang" but most by and large attempt to make the best of the the new marriage.  Certainly there are detractors but as I say by an large most were ready to cast away the old bride and ready to take on a new one.

 

The players to me are more like affairs by and large, but the coaches more like marriages.  I say this because Coaches are meant to bring a fresh start and positive change to the team. 

 

So really the Honeymoon that I refer to is between the fans and it's new coaches.  

 

What the old coach did wasn't right and what the new coach says is perfect... Even if they are saying the same thing...

 

Somehow, however, because it's a new Bride... all shiny, pretty and new... It's ok.  That old bride... well she just wasn't gonna cut it.

 

Well once again I find it ironic reading these boards and seeing how not only how history repeats itself, but that the collective memories seem so short.  

 

It seems as though our new Bride is going to do some of the exact same things with our QB that our QB really stated he didn't want to do, and many of the fans have been clamoring for since the losing set in this season.  Somehow our QB intimated that he thought his coaches didn't like him... But one can find sound bites from last season that were nothing short of the coaches calling the QB the greatest thing since Ringling Bros.   However, once it was apparent that the QB couldn't play the position the way he had his first season then it was up to the coaches to change/teach him how to play differently than he had ever before... This however ended up being not doable and the once perfect Bride was cast aside as really not all that special regardless of their past.

 

However, the new Bride... well no matter what they say... It's all perfect, it's all gonna work out.  

 

I just know this one... is the right one... I just know it.  

 

Regardless..

 

Nothing like a great "Honeymoon"

[NIKKI8]

I agree with what many have aklready said, the honeymoon period was over when he started puting together his coaching staff, or had it put together for him whatever the case was.