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2015 MLB Thread - Hot Stove Edition


MattFancy

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This post is moronic. Our GM thought a healthy Strasburg going forward was more important than him pitching into Sep in 2011. Your GM thought it was better to have a shot at a WS in 2012 by having Medlan pitch out of the bullpen first. How'd that work out for ya? Now, which GM bungled what?

You're assuming that's what caused Medlen's injury. You don't know that. And he was pitching out of the bullpen out of necessity, more than anything. Out bullpen was beset with injuries and we had an abundance of starters.
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My point was there is no right or wrong. But the Nats were bashed for handling Strasburg how we did while the Braves were praised for how they handled Medlan. BS has been riding that train since Rizzo came out with his plan. BS claims it cost the Nats a shot at the WS while ignoring that his team may be without their 2 best pitchers for the next 18 months (costing them a shot at 2 WS using his logic). I get heated when he keeps vomiting Nats hate and Braves love all over this board.

Leave me out of this. What you posted was incorrect, and Bliz called you on it.

And you have the "hate" thing COMPLETELY backwards! My team is, and have always been, the more dominant club. Why would I hate a team that routinely finishes behind mine? Makes no sense. Why do you think Mets fans hate us so much.

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Do I dare say that the Braves are more hated than the Yankees on this board? lol

I don't think it's hate. Bubbles is just a loser. Guy disappears whenever convenient but pops right out like a ****roach when time is right. Typical front runner and I don't know why people still engage him:

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I don't think it's hate. Bubbles is just a loser. Guy disappears whenever convenient but pops right out like a ****roach when time is right. Typical front runner and I don't know why people still engage him:

First off, watch the insults.

And I post on ES just about every day, so could you explain this disappearing act? And I've been a Braves fan for 30+ years, so I'm obviously not a front runner. Used to attend games at Fulton County Stadium when there were often 5,000 fans in the stands. Anymore lies you want me to dismiss? If you have nothing to add to the conversation, then why bother?

Well, their fans appear to be not from or live in the Atlanta area just like the majority of the Yankees fans aren't from or live in the NY area.

Living in NC, who exactly am I supposed to pull for?

Do I dare say that the Braves are more hated than the Yankees on this board? lol

I wouldn't go THAT far lol.
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Seems these problems only started when McDowell arrived. Mazzone obviously had a great program when he was there.

Seems the Braves hate is a little ridiculous though. It could just be that they are snakebit. The Nats bungled the Strasburg thing. Could very well have cost them a WS. As last year showed, you aren't promised a shot at a WS every year.

Are you kidding? Medlen and Beachy visiting Dr. Andrews vindicates the Nationals decision to shut down Strasburg. The Braves have overworked their three TJS pitchers and two of them are headed for a second TJS with Beachy in limbo. All you have to do is compare Strasburg and Beachy's rehab starts and recovery seasons. It isn't even close. Beachy was throwing 90+ pitches within his first 5 rehab starts in the minors. Strasburg didn't top 90 pitches at all in his rehab season. And then we complained that he was babied in 2012 and 2013.

 

Much more thought out rehabs. The Nationals played the long game. They expect to be competitive for years and for Strasburg to be here for a long career. The Braves were worried about winning right then, especially with Tim Hudson going down. They pushed. The arm is pushing back.

 

As for the Braves supposedly handling Medlen better, the results speak for themselves. They switched a guy from a reliver to a starter, then back to a reliever. Then he blow out his elbow. So they made him a reliever and switched him to a starter. Increased is inning load by over 60. No wonder his arm blew out again.

 

No ill will towards the Braves players. Only one I disliked was McCann and he'll be policing the game for the Yankees. But their medical staff sucks and their front office simply doesn't care about the long term health/production of their young arms. I'll be surprised if Tehran or Minor last two more seasons.

Enough! This has turned into a Braves/Nats war. Get back to talking about baseball that includes the other 28 teams.

Who else should we talk about? There's nothing interesting in baseball right now.

 

Well, I guess that's not totally true. Livan Hernandez retired. And this is what I'll always remember about him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR3eK5gCChM#t=13

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Slate: to be fair, you can't really compare the Strasburg situation to Beachy. Stras was/is the face of your franchise, while Beachy wasn't even drafted, I don't think. Of course Stras is going to be handled with kid gloves.

I'm just saying that it wasn't the right move, imo. There is no guarantee he would have gotten hurt, had he pitched more innings that year. Plus, he was dying to pitch longer. It's not like they would have been forcing anything on him. You guys may not ever get that close to winning a WS again. You gotta strike when the iron's hot.

You guys can call me an idiot all you want, but a LOT of great baseball minds questioned that move. So did probably half your fan base. Like I said, it's all good. Being a Braves fan, I'm glad Rizzo chose that path.

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Slate: to be fair, you can't really compare the Strasburg situation to Beachy. Stras was/is the face of your franchise, while Beachy wasn't even drafted, I don't think. Of course Stras is going to be handled with kid gloves.

I'm just saying that it wasn't the right move, imo. There is no guarantee he would have gotten hurt, had he pitched more innings that year. Plus, he was dying to pitch longer. It's not like they would have been forcing anything on him. You guys may not ever get that close to winning a WS again. You gotta strike when the iron's hot.

You guys can call me an idiot all you want, but a LOT of great baseball minds questioned that move. So did probably half your fan base. Like I said, it's all good. Being a Braves fan, I'm glad Rizzo chose that path.

They did the samething with Strasburg as they did with Jordan Zimmermann.

 

A lot of baseball minds questioned the move. They were wrong. So are you. Beachy and Medlen are proving the Nationals right.

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They did the samething with Strasburg as they did with Jordan Zimmermann.

A lot of baseball minds questioned the move. They were wrong. So are you. Beachy and Medlen are proving the Nationals right.

You're missing my point. I was critical of the Nats for thinking that they could win the WS without Stras and for thinking they would have more chances to win a WS in the future. Not for how the trainers handled him.

And you are assuming that Beachy and Medlen are injured because of how they were handled. You have no idea what caused their injuries. Nor do I. We can only speculate. That doesn't make me wrong.

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You're missing my point. I was critical of the Nats for thinking that they could win the WS without Stras and for thinking they would have more chances to win a WS in the future. Not for how the trainers handled him.

And you are assuming that Beachy and Medlen are injured because of how they were handled. You have no idea what caused their injuries. Nor do I. We can only speculate. That doesn't make me wrong.

When the did the Nats say they could win the World Series without Strasburg? And of course they think they'd have another shot at the WS. They have a good, young team. Braves think the same way, otherwise they wouldn't have spent all that money in the offseason.

 

I'm not assuming. I'm pointing out the facts. And the facts are that the Nats were cautious with their Tommy John Surgery recoveries and have been rewarded, while the Braves were not and have two pitchers going for round two with their UCL and a third who may be on the way.

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When the did the Nats say they could win the World Series without Strasburg? And of course they think they'd have another shot at the WS. They have a good, young team. Braves think the same way, otherwise they wouldn't have spent all that money in the offseason.

I'm not assuming. I'm pointing out the facts. And the facts are that the Nats were cautious with their Tommy John Surgery recoveries and have been rewarded, while the Braves were not and have two pitchers going for round two with their UCL and a third who may be on the way.

You still don't get it. The fact that the Nats were cautious with Stras means nothing. He could have just as easily pitched the rest of 2012 and not gotten injured. And again, you're 'assuming' Medlen and Beachy are injured because of how they were handled. It isn't a "fact". That's your opinion.
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You still don't get it. The fact that the Nats were cautious with Stras means nothing. He could have just as easily pitched the rest of 2012 and not gotten injured. And again, you're 'assuming' Medlen and Beachy are injured because of how they were handled. It isn't a "fact". That's your opinion.

 

I'd say it means everything. Results speak for themselves. They didn't push him. They set limits. They didn't give him any huge jumps in innings. He and Jordan Zimmermann are healthy. Medlen and Beachy are not.

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I'd say it means everything. Results speak for themselves. They didn't push him. They set limits. They didn't give him any huge jumps in innings. He and Jordan Zimmermann are healthy. Medlen and Beachy are not.

You have no idea what program the Braves have their pitchers on. You're simply going on innings. That isn't the end all be all. Hell, didn't Stras, a few years ago, have issues with his arm early in the season?

Read back through the thread. Bliz made some great points about this conversation. It's ridiculous that you are absolutely saying the Braves mishandled and that is what caused these injuries. You, nor I, have any idea what caused them. They could simply be snakebit.

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You have no idea what program the Braves have their pitchers on. You're simply going on innings. That isn't the end all be all. Hell, didn't Stras, a few years ago, have issues with his arm early in the season?

Read back through the thread. Bliz made some great points about this conversation. It's ridiculous that you are absolutely saying the Braves mishandled and that is what caused these injuries. You, nor I, have any idea what caused them. They could simply be snakebit.

Yea, he ended up with Tommy John Surgery.

 

And it's pretty easy to figure out the program they use. All you have to do is look through their rehab starts.

 

Beachy's first rehab starts:

Game 1: 70 pitches

Game 2: 5 innings, 18 batters faced

Game 3: 80 pitches

Game 4: 94 pitches

Game 5: 69 (in three innings)

Strasburg's first 5:

Game 1: 1.2 innings, 8 batters faced

Game 2: 3 innings, 12 batters

Game 3: 1.2 innings, 11 batters

Game 4: 3 innings, 14 batters

Game 5: 64 pitches

Yea, totally the same. Or not. Strasburg was clearly brought along more slowly. Oh and Strasburg did simulated games prior to these starts as well.

Let's take a look at the pitch counts in their first five major league rehab starts:

Pitcher A: 84, 98, 99, 81, 86

Pitcher B: 56, 57, 61, 75, 79

Hmmm ... which one threw less and was rehabed better. Here's a hint: Pitcher B isn't facing his second TJS.

 

Just face it, the Braves blew it. They tried to get cute with Medlen and then it backfired. Then they overworked Beachy. Instead of having a pitching  staff comparable to the Nationals and one of the best in baseball, they're looking at being without their number 3 starter for the next two years, the best set up man in baseball is done, and their ace (who prior to injury was comparable with the best in the game) may be gone for the next two seasons.

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Yea, he ended up with Tommy John Surgery.

And it's pretty easy to figure out the program they use. All you have to do is look through their rehab starts.

Beachy's first rehab starts:

Game 1: 70 pitches

Game 2: 5 innings, 18 batters faced

Game 3: 80 pitches

Game 4: 94 pitches

Game 5: 69 (in three innings)

Strasburg's first 5:

Game 1: 1.2 innings, 8 batters faced

Game 2: 3 innings, 12 batters

Game 3: 1.2 innings, 11 batters

Game 4: 3 innings, 14 batters

Game 5: 64 pitches

Yea, totally the same. Or not. Strasburg was clearly brought along more slowly. Oh and Strasburg did simulated games prior to these starts as well.

Let's take a look at the pitch counts in their first five major league rehab starts:

Pitcher A: 84, 98, 99, 81, 86

Pitcher B: 56, 57, 61, 75, 79

Hmmm ... which one threw less and was rehabed better. Here's a hint: Pitcher B isn't facing his second TJS.

Just face it, the Braves blew it. They tried to get cute with Medlen and then it backfired. Then they overworked Beachy. Instead of having a pitching staff comparable to the Nationals and one of the best in baseball, they're looking at being without their number 3 starter for the next two years, the best set up man in baseball is done, and their ace (who prior to injury was comparable with the best in the game) may be gone for the next two seasons.

I didn't realize that there was a set number of innings to pitch a guy coming off rehab. I was always under the impression a guy could get injured on any pitch at any point in their career. My apologies, Dr Slateman.

And yeah, I'm jealous of your pitching staff. We could have wrapped up the East by the All Star break with those guys.

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Even though it`s ST, the Yankees pitching has been terrific. That`s encouraging. I had a hunch that pitching was going to exceed expectations this year and be a true strength -- I like when a guy like Pineda is competing for a 5-spot in the rotation. But if their offense is as anemic as it was last year -- with the FA signings and people returning from injury -- I`m going to flip a lid. No excuse for that... and the bats have been slow getting started so far.

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Even though it`s ST, the Yankees pitching has been terrific. That`s encouraging. I had a hunch that pitching was going to exceed expectations this year and be a true strength -- I like when a guy like Pineda is competing for a 5-spot in the rotation. But if their offense is as anemic as it was last year -- with the FA signings and people returning from injury -- I`m going to flip a lid. No excuse for that... and the bats have been slow getting started so far.

 

I'm not worried about vets in ST hitting wise.

 

They'll be okay. I think the AL is in for a surprise this season

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