Voice_of_Reason

The House that Bruce Built

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Relax guys, there are fans here that wants to give Allen 3-5 years to see if he truly sucks and the rest of us are just being impatient. 

 

You don't need to wait 3-5 years to know a terrible FO when their track record proves they don't belong in the NFL.

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No surprise about Allen, his draft record in Tampa Bay was putrid and he got fired.

Here he used his 1-4 off ramp and got the team in deep salary cap mess resulting in a $36 millions penalty. Snyder signed him because he his the son of, proving one more time that he's just a fan running a fantasy football team, and he'll never get it.

Edited by FrFan
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Our front office has been bad for many years.  Then we let go junior front office personnel guys and scouts to other teams where they end up performing well.  I am thinking about Trent Balke now General Manager of 49ers who has drafted well. I do not like Balke but its hard to deny his drafting talents.  Allen needs some guys he can supervise who know how to build offensive and defensive lines.   It does no good to have talented receivers if your quarterback is being sacked six times per game.

Edited by veteranskinsfan

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Not sure why anyone had, or still has, confidence in Bruce Allen. His track record in Tampa speaks for itself. The sooner he is replaced by a GM who can consistently bring in talent and add depth to this team, the better we are off.

 

Lauvao, Clark, and Porter have all been terrible signings. He franchised Orakpo, which is questionable at best. The offensive line wasn't addressed properly and many of the players from last year's bad defense were retained. Signing Jackson, who has been great, does not make up for all of the mistakes.

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We basically rebuilt a best friends club after Vinny left. Dan is such a loser. Always looking for friendships through his football franchise. It's like his personal tinder. Bruce Allen can wear the hell out of his suits and throws amazing pancake socials. That's about it.

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Not sure why anyone had, or still has, confidence in Bruce Allen. His track record in Tampa speaks for itself. The sooner he is replaced by a GM who can consistently bring in talent and add depth to this team, the better we are off.

 

Lauvao, Clark, and Porter have all been terrible signings. He franchised Orakpo, which is questionable at best. The offensive line wasn't addressed properly and many of the players from last year's bad defense were retained. Signing Jackson, who has been great, does not make up for all of the mistakes.

I don't think I could say that any better. 

Porter has made 1 good play. Other than that he has hardly even seen the field.

Lauvao is either injured or letting someone through.

Clark I have seen a lot....everytime there is a big pass downfield he is the one who was supposed to help over the top.

 

Skins have bigger problems than GM though.

In all honesty looking back at the offseason it should have been known this was not going to be a good season with the drought of roster additions in recent years with draft picks.

-Safety (free and strong) has been a black hole for a long time.

-Oline has been largely ignored and patched together.

 

I'm not going to open the can of worms with QB. In all honesty I would ignore that position next year. I dont care if it is McCoy or RG3 who plays there next year because drafting another QB high or getting someones left overs in FA would be a waste.

Skins have been exceptionally lucky at WR in FA. I don't think that is a question for the position and are very deep there.

I wouldnt waste a pick on a RB either. We have plenty of depth in Redd, Helu and Alf. 

Oline and Safety should be just about every high round pick unless a phenom falls to the Skins.

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Some complaints I had during the offseason that I was taken to task for:

o Bruce Allen should have hired a GM

o Jay Gruden wasn't my first choice (although I am giving him benefit of the doubt and with holding judgement)

o Not hiring an experienced Offensive coordinator to take some of the workload off the plate of a 1st time HC

o Not hiring a QB coach to take some of the workload off a 1st time HC

o Should have upgraded the Defensive coordinator

o The already mentioned FA/draft failures

o Some of the consequences of the above mistakes are obvious and have played out on the field but some more subtle are:

-Inability of GM to reign in the loose lips of the HC/QB in the media. I believe a competent GM addresses these issues amicably/semi-amicably behind closed doors

-Inability to reign in the "cats dry sniyching" behind the scenes

Edited by darrelgreenie

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I just think we lack leadership and have too many players lacking character. A good GM would have a list of guys who need to be gone to start rebuilding the locker room.

 

A good GM would have done that already. Especially if he was here watching all these guys with a 4 year indoctrination to the job.

 

A good GM would have noticed that Haslett had kept up his decade long tradition of Non-Performing defenses here for 4 of 4 seasons under Shanahan. There wasn't even a hint in 4 years that we might just have the makings of a top 5 defense. It consistently underperformed.

 

A good GM would have wanted an experienced OC and also a QB coach for these 3 inexperienced QB's that we have. Instead we have a HC with 3 years experience in the NFL coaching 1 offense ran by 1 QB ever and an OC who has only ever been a TE coach and NO QB COACH.

 

The real answer though is that:

 

A good GM will never be here because Snyder was never looking for one in the first place and even if he was any good GM would know that Snyder isn't going to let him do the job required to make the team successful.

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Some complaints I had during the offseason that I was taken to task for:

o Bruce Allen should have hired a GM

o Jay Gruden wasn't my first choice (although I am giving him benefit of the doubt and with holding judgement)

o Not hiring an experienced Offensive coordinator to take some of the workload off the plate of a 1st time HC

o Not hiring a QB coach to take some of the workload off a 1st time HC

o Should have upgraded the Defensive coordinator

o The already mentioned FA/draft failures

o Some of the consequences of the above mistakes are obvious and have played out on the field but some more subtle are:

-Inability of GM to reign in the loose lips of the HC/QB in the media. I believe a competent GM addresses these issues amicably/semi-amicably behind closed doors

-Inability to reign in the "cats dry sniyching" behind the scenes

 

Spot on post.  So many questionable red flags I was willing to hold judgement on, but theyre starting to show up again.  Bruce just cannot bargain bin hunt or sign mid level free agents, they often fizzle out and end up being liabilities i.e. Lauvao and Clark.

 

Keeping Haslett? FAIL

No experienced QB coach, instead rely on a 1st year HC and 27 year old OC? FAIL

 

I'm starting to see this trend on extremeskins of people asking to upgrade the o-line and defense this offseason as "priorities"....but wait, I thought those were major issues going into the last offseason?!? People have done too much analyzing of the QB position, blatantly ignoring that fact we create such a poor support system for them to win in.  They really thought we "fixed" the o-line by signing Lauvao and shuffling around some players LOL.

 

B2GXQ8kCIAAAOEk.png

 

First 9 games of the last 2 years, we've given up 21+ pts in 17 out of 18 possible games.  NFL teams win% giving up 21+ ppg is below 45% yet the only thing people want to talk about is the QB position.

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First 9 games of the last 2 years, we've given up 21+ pts in 17 out of 18 possible games.  NFL teams win% giving up 21+ ppg is below 45% yet the only thing people want to talk about is the QB position.

 

Some of us have been talking about Haz since early in 2010 before he even coached a game here. How much can you say? We all know he is garbage but when you have a QB who consistently puts up 7-17 points a game (which is like 7 of last 8 starts) then of course we will talk about the QB as well.

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The one thing I will say about the OL is that we have to give that group an "Incomplete" in evaluation at the moment.  Moses and Long were both drafted as projects, neither had seen the field.  Moses played last Sunday for an injured Trent, and did ok.  Need to see Long.  Compton is an upgrade to Polumbus.  Kory is having the best year of any OL, might be playing at a pro-bowl level, if not for the fact the team stinks. 

 

I also think (and this is an argument from the JC days) that the QB is making the OL look worse in pass-pro than they really are.  EVERY OL player is going to get beat every so often. But when your QB can't hit his drop, doesn't get the ball out, drifts backwards, etc. it makes life very difficult for the OL.  

 

I stated my criticisms of Allen several times in this thread already, but they are:

 

1. (DarrellGreenie and I are in lockstep on this one) NEVER should have allowed Gruden to be essentially the HC/Playcaller with a first time OC and no QB coach.  That's exactly what we did with Zorn.  Zorn was actually a hell of a QB coach.  Giving him HC/OC and QB coach was a death sentence from the beginning.  There was no way he could succeed.  Made the same mistake twice. 

2. Lack of vision with the personnel on offense.  Brought in a bunch of WRs who couldn't block the outside zone running play, but wanted to keep the running game as an outside-zone running game.  That's a personnel gaff.

3. Doing virtually nothing to upgrade the safety position.  Signing Ryan Clark?  Please.  

4. Drafting a 3rd OLB when the DC can't even figure out how to use the two that he has effectively.

5. Retaining Haslett/Morris. 

6. Not bringing in a true, honest to god Personnel guy who is either ready to put together an entire roster, or has already shown that he could put together an entire roster.

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A good GM would have done that already. Especially if he was here watching all these guys with a 4 year indoctrination to the job.

 

A good GM would have noticed that Haslett had kept up his decade long tradition of Non-Performing defenses here for 4 of 4 seasons under Shanahan. There wasn't even a hint in 4 years that we might just have the makings of a top 5 defense. It consistently underperformed.

 

A good GM would have wanted an experienced OC and also a QB coach for these 3 inexperienced QB's that we have. Instead we have a HC with 3 years experience in the NFL coaching 1 offense ran by 1 QB ever and an OC who has only ever been a TE coach and NO QB COACH.

 

The real answer though is that:

 

A good GM will never be here because Snyder was never looking for one in the first place and even if he was any good GM would know that Snyder isn't going to let him do the job required to make the team successful.

It would be nice if there was one thing there that wasn't true.

 

Though I still hold out hope that at some point things will get bad enough that Snyder will realize the need to hire a real GM, and that we'll get lucky and he'll pick a good one. 

 

That's the only reason to keep following this team, imo.

1. (DarrellGreenie and I are in lockstep on this one) NEVER should have allowed Gruden to be essentially the HC/Playcaller with a first time OC and no QB coach.  That's exactly what we did with Zorn.  Zorn was actually a hell of a QB coach.  Giving him HC/OC and QB coach was a death sentence from the beginning.  There was no way he could succeed.  Made the same mistake twice. 

2. Lack of vision with the personnel on offense.  Brought in a bunch of WRs who couldn't block the outside zone running play, but wanted to keep the running game as an outside-zone running game.  That's a personnel gaff.

3. Doing virtually nothing to upgrade the safety position.  Signing Ryan Clark?  Please.  

4. Drafting a 3rd OLB when the DC can't even figure out how to use the two that he has effectively.

5. Retaining Haslett/Morris. 

6. Not bringing in a true, honest to god Personnel guy who is either ready to put together an entire roster, or has already shown that he could put together an entire roster.

Dead on. All of it.

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I'm amazed at how Bruce Allen, relatively speaking, is flying under the radar through all of this. They didn't play horribly today, but the result is another loss and I am still unimpressed with foundation of this team. Morgan Moses did not look very good and the offensive line continues to struggle. You can't go into this season with Polumbus as your starting right tackle and think you have the luxury to draft project lineman like Moses and Long.

 

This is the same guy who primarily retained coaches from last year's staff that had ties to his friend Gruden during the coaching "search". It's pretty clear that Allen has been all in on Gruden since day one. I don't put a lot of blame on Gruden for the current state of the team. He can only work with the players provided to him. But ultimately if he fails, then so does Allen. Yet all anyone seems to be concerned about is our play at quarterback and how our team handles press conferences.

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I'm amazed at how Bruce Allen, relatively speaking, is flying under the radar through all of this.

I was just thinking this as well. The RG3 circus is shifting the focus away from the **** show he has assembled.

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I was just thinking this as well. The RG3 circus is shifting the focus away from the **** show he has assembled.

 

No, Bruce Allen is target number 1.

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Right now RGIII is taking the bullets, you can bet that as soon as the clock hits 0:00 Week 17, he is going to get reamed.

Horrible start under his watch. After today's defensive perform an e I can guarantee you that he is thinking of ways to sell the retaining of Haslett to the fan base.

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In the lists you guys are putting up above, you're forgetting to mention allowing Morocco Brown to depart to the Browns where he can actually fulfill the role he was supposed to have here. That may have been as big a gaffe as any. What's disturbing about it is that Allen himself, the top guy, vouched for him as a personnel guy and said the personnel issues in the past weren't his fault. Now, I'm not sure I really believe him, anyway, but from the standpoint of structuring an organization properly, wouldn't you give that guy the title that goes with that expertise you vouched for (GM) if you actually believe what's coming out of your mouth?

 

Of course, instead, that means we let him leave and Allen who isn't even good at personnel is making those decisions and assuming that title, lol. Can't make this stuff up.  

 

We really don't need to go further than the fact that Snyder handed Bruce Allen a title in this organization that's main responsibility is something he has been proven to be weak at. Nothing else matters, really. We can sit here and talk about every move that was made to death, but that was the move right there that created all of the issues. 

 

Some of us said it was a major issue and were told to not worry, that at least we have a GM (and the "normal" structure successful organizations have) finally in place so that Snyder wasn't involved. When we responded with "yeah, but we had this same type of 'normal structure' with Vinny after Gibbs left", it was considered ridiculous and that Allen couldn't be compared to Vinny. Lol. 

Edited by thesubmittedone

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I'm amazed at how Bruce Allen, relatively speaking, is flying under the radar through all of this. They didn't play horribly today, but the result is another loss and I am still unimpressed with foundation of this team. Morgan Moses did not look very good and the offensive line continues to struggle. You can't go into this season with Polumbus as your starting right tackle and think you have the luxury to draft project lineman like Moses and Long.

 

This is the same guy who primarily retained coaches from last year's staff that had ties to his friend Gruden during the coaching "search". It's pretty clear that Allen has been all in on Gruden since day one. I don't put a lot of blame on Gruden for the current state of the team. He can only work with the players provided to him. But ultimately if he fails, then so does Allen. Yet all anyone seems to be concerned about is our play at quarterback and how our team handles press conferences.

The media and fans don't really talk about GMs. Heck, there is another thread where we are talking about how the great ones don't even get Hall of Fame consideration. So he's escaped notice by most as he would if he was great, mediocre or spending his days making poop sculptures in his office.

 

But for anyone who is actually trying to discuss what is wrong with the Redskins, Allen has to be  high on your list if you know what you're talking about.

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Not sure why anyone had, or still has, confidence in Bruce Allen. His track record in Tampa speaks for itself. The sooner he is replaced by a GM who can consistently bring in talent and add depth to this team, the better we are off.

 

Lauvao, Clark, and Porter have all been terrible signings. He franchised Orakpo, which is questionable at best. The offensive line wasn't addressed properly and many of the players from last year's bad defense were retained. Signing Jackson, who has been great, does not make up for all of the mistakes.

I said this before and during free agency this year, hell even when he was hired. Redskins fans told me I was over reacting and we need to "give him time". I don't know what it is about this team where fans want to stick with awful executives/players just to see if they finally "get it". Bruce's track record has been absolutely abysmal everywhere he has been, why can't we be like normal teams and sign an up and coming patriots executive or a proven teambuilder like Polian

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Some of us said it was a major issue and were told to not worry, that at least we have a GM (and the "normal" structure successful organizations have) finally in place so that Snyder wasn't involved. When we responded with "yeah, but we had this same type of 'normal structure' with Vinny after Gibbs left", it was considered ridiculous and that Allen couldn't be compared to Vinny. Lol. 

 

Not to mention his one claim to fame was being the "GM" under Al Davis (which he wasn't) and how the Raiders were actually good back then. The truth is that he was Al Davis' salary cap guy with no GM title and who believes that Al Davis had Allen making his draft selections or choosing his free agents? Nobody, but he co-existed with that nutcase for a decade or so which must mean he would be the perfect front (puppet) for an owner who wants to control things from behind the scenes by pretending Allen is the guy because of his previous "experience" which never involved actually selecting personnel and I'm sure that is also the case in Tampa when he followed Gruden there 2 years later. I still believe, as I did in 2009, that Snyder just replaced one puppet with another. Vinny lacked credibility, Allen just by name has much more credibility.

 

I doubt that Snyder is involved in every single decision but the big marketing ones like being the first in line for players like Haynesworth, Desean Jackson, Cutler, Jason Taylor, we all should know those were DS style decisions. Allen probably, or possibly, is more likely to talk Snyder down on some of the more idiotic thoughts though so hopefully we have no more Haynesworths, but we did have the McNabb trade and I'm not totally sold on the Shanahans wanting him all that much. Maybe we will find out whats up when Suh is on the list in a few months if this idiocy will ever end.

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I think Lauvao was the only one you can call a terrible signing.  Clark was a stopgap and Porter was just basically a nickel or dime back. 

 

The Jason Taylor trade was made out of desperation because we'd already lost two DEs to injury on the first day of camp, and let one walk in free agency.

 

And frankly it's amazing how Skins fans will blame anyone while he's here, but on his departure he's absolved and "I never really believed he did this.  It was always Snyder and" whoever is still here.

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Horrible start under his watch. After today's defensive perform an e I can guarantee you that he is thinking of ways to sell the retaining of Haslett to the fan base.

 

Oh God. So what you're saying is...there is no silver lining whatsoever?

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1. (DarrellGreenie and I are in lockstep on this one) NEVER should have allowed Gruden to be essentially the HC/Playcaller with a first time OC and no QB coach.  That's exactly what we did with Zorn.  Zorn was actually a hell of a QB coach.  Giving him HC/OC and QB coach was a death sentence from the beginning.  There was no way he could succeed.  Made the same mistake twice. 

im starting to think this is one of the main things here.  since week 1 gruden has seemed way in over his head.  hes basically hc/oc/play caller/qb coach.  dick lebeau is older than jay gruden and sean mcvay combined.  they are young and inexperienced.  combine that with the fact that they cant fully focus on our qb's because they have other responsiblities, and you wonder why rg3 and cousins are regressing.  the team is a total fail and it starts at the top.

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