The House that Bruce Built

[SkinsFTW]

 Even AJ Smith would be a step in the right direction, although he is an a--hole. We have to make right decisions on the coaching staff,

 

Another retread fired for losing GM is never a step in the right direction.

 

AJ Smith is the guy who thought Norv Turner was the guy his team needed in order to win last time. Good call there bro.

[Tyron Biggums]

No worries, just check out my posts in this thread.

Don't worry about some of the thinly disguised trolls.

Most of my posts are over their heads anyway.

I wouldn't even see those types of posts if they weren't quoted, and lucky for me they usually aren't.

Some of those trollstyle posts come from some of dumbest types of posters who argue via drive by strawmen and are often too stupid to or don't even bother to get other posters claims correct. (even after the view is re-quoted and spelled out for them)

Back when people were lauding the Allen hiring I was one of the few pointing out that hey this guy is capologist not a GM. I was also one of the people that didn't want Haslett brought back.

So anyone representing my views as anything other are being purposefully disingenuous.

I have to admit I fell hook, line and sinker on the Haz rehire. I fully believed that Shanny had undermined him. Oh, what a tangled web they weave.

[skinny21]

Lol.

Draft class looks pretty good? Breeland looks like a stud. Murphy has been decent, was a luxury pick. The 2 3rd rounders don't play/usually inactive, the 5th, 6th, and 7th rounders were cut. Those players should be your special teamers/depth.

What about his FA signings? Jackson just happened to fall to us since he was cut fairly late into the FA. Wey was a great pickup. Luavao was his #1 option and signing and he's playing as expected (a lowly rated guard). All those LBs the signed are nowhere contributing. Tracy Porter has been hurt (not surprising because he was hurt when they signed him). Ryan Clark, might as well be playing with 10 guys on defense with him. Roberts hasn't been any more productive than Hank from last season. Hatcher hasn't been what they expected. I just don't agree with signing a 32-year-old DL on a lucrative deal for a 3-13 team. That signing shows this FO lacks vision/plan. When you are 3-13, you should know you are 2-3 years away from actually competing so why bring in a old guy?

Right now, Danny boy and Allen are the biggest impediment to continual success for the once great franchise, Redskins.

I agree with your premise, but part of the reason the ILBs aren't contributing is that Compton stepped up. Well, that and Hayward went to IR. Also think you're a bit harsh on Clark - most of the big plays have been because the young guys aren't covering their zone. But yeah, Clark has not been much of a difference maker (apart from a few key stops).

Here's hoping Long and Moses step up in the offseason, though I hope the FO doesn't sit on their hands due to said 'hope'.

You can probably add Rambo to the WTH file.

[skinny21]

Another retread fired for losing GM is never a step in the right direction.

AJ Smith is the guy who thought Norv Turner was the guy his team needed in order to win last time. Good call there bro.

Gotta imagine every potential candidate has made a mistake at some point.

[SkinsFTW]

Gotta imagine every potential candidate has made a mistake at some point.

 

Except we are the only team in the entire league with a retread GM, and it's not like its Bill Polian or Pioli it's a guy who got fired for being there while Jon Gruden turned a great team into a crap team and other than that he watched Al Davis run a team into the ground, not exactly the experience you want if the goal is winning football games. But it's exactly what Snyder wanted, somebody who has never been a personnel guy so Snyder can continue the fantasy football from behind the scenes.

 

Meet Bruce Allen:

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

So, it looks like the house Bruce Built in 2014 was built in quicksand imported from Tampa.

He's not going anywhere.

So in 2015, I want a better pro-personnel guy full time, a new DC and secondary coach (no promotion of Raheem to DC), new OL and RB. Coaches.

Let's see. If they try to sell status quo, I'd be shocked.

[Rufus T Firefly]

So, it looks like the house Bruce Built in 2014 was built in quicksand imported from Tampa.

He's not going anywhere.

So in 2015, I want a better pro-personnel guy full time, a new DC and secondary coach (no promotion of Raheem to DC), new OL and RB. Coaches.

Let's see. If they try to sell status quo, I'd be shocked.

They won't try to sell that. They'll come up with some scapegoats to sacrifice. Then they will sell change, but if there is any real change I'll be pretty surprised.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

They won't try to sell that. They'll come up with some scapegoats to sacrifice. Then they will sell change, but if there is any real change I'll be pretty surprised.

They have to figure out if they want to fire Haslett this year and name AJ Smith as GM next or vice versa. Very important to have a plan for a new scapegoat each offseason. We're always thinking ahead. Edited December 28, 2014 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[Rufus T Firefly]

They have to figure out if they want to fire Haslett this year and name AJ Smith as GM next or vice versa. Very important to have a plan for a new scapegoat each offseason. We're always thinking ahead.

If there is a "GM" named I suspect it will be in name only. And the only reason I think Has is actually in jeopardy is that, again, they have to find somebody to blame.

[Voice_of_Reason]

They won't try to sell that. They'll come up with some scapegoats to sacrifice. Then they will sell change, but if there is any real change I'll be pretty surprised.

If they make Haslet the scapegoat, I'd be ok with that.

[Fred Jones]

I want more than one pro bowl caliber player on the Oline.  Sets the tone for the rest of the team.

[SlinginSammy HOF '63]

Bruce is not George, that's for sure. Bruce has overseen one of the worst five year stretches in our history minus one good season. And we've had quite a few bad five year stretches.

[Duckus]

**** you Bruce. 

 

[skinpride1]

You better believe The Gibbs sighting was no accident today. No one is safe not even Bruce Allen..I'm hoping for a house cleaning. I know its going to be hard with Gruden because of his contract so start with what you can..Bruce Allen and Jim Haslett should be the first on the chopping block!! Rebuild the o-line and secondary. We need multiple pro bowlers on this roster.  

[knowledge316]

I doubt there's any changes in the FO, coaching staff, or scouting department. I'd rather have a monkey making football decisions than Danny boy and Bruce Allen. Those two morons has no business being 100 miles within an organized sports team. 

 

I'm sure they'll hire "GM" Smith and draft Landon Collins at #5 and market him as the next Sean Taylor when he's more close to Laron Landry, a bust. 

[Conn]

What our FO needs to learn is that these Golston/Paulsen/Biggers types don't do anything for you. They are below replacement-level vets, they're cheap, and they stick around because with no obviously better alternatives coaches will always go with the players they've worked with before.

But that does no good. You need to let those guys go and replace them with young potential. Just churn those roster spots until you find somebody, like Jeffcoat possibly.

We NEVER land the bigger named UDFA's, either. Well, we did get Minnifield a few years ago but he was coming off a micro-fracture surgery and was overrated. And our roster should be PERFECT for these UDFA types with potential, because we suck everywhere and lack depth everywhere. But instead we use UDFA not to bring in high-ceiling projects, but camp bodies that have almost no chance of sticking. Because we already know we're keeping the comfortable, average vets like Golston and Biggers rather than taking the risk on young guys.

It's infuriating for a roster that should be in a compete rebuild.

For the same reason it was infuriating to use a draft pick on a K to give us a camp leg. It's as if we think we're too good or too talented to find future contributors in the 6th or 7th rounds when everyone else in the league is doing it. Instead of taking a risk on, say, Crowell to sit behind Morris and unseat our lackluster RB back-ups, we throw that pick away on a Kicker who doesn't beat out our already pretty good Kicker.

[Warhead36]

What our FO needs to learn is that these Golston/Paulsen/Biggers types don't do anything for you. They are below replacement-level vets, they're cheap, and they stick around because with no obviously better alternatives coaches will always go with the players they've worked with before.

But that does no good. You need to let those guys go and replace them with young potential. Just churn those roster spots until you find somebody, like Jeffcoat possibly.

We NEVER land the bigger named UDFA's, either. Well, we did get Minnifield a few years ago but he was coming off a micro-fracture surgery and was overrated. And our roster should be PERFECT for these UDFA types with potential, because we suck everywhere and lack depth everywhere. But instead we use UDFA not to bring in high-ceiling projects, but camp bodies that have almost no chance of sticking. Because we already know we're keeping the comfortable, average vets like Golston and Biggers rather than taking the risk on young guys.

It's infuriating for a roster that should be in a compete rebuild.

For the same reason it was infuriating to use a draft pick on a K to give us a camp leg. It's as if we think we're too good or too talented to find future contributors in the 6th or 7th rounds when everyone else in the league is doing it. Instead of taking a risk on, say, Crowell to sit behind Morris and unseat our lackluster RB back-ups, we throw that pick away on a Kicker who doesn't beat out our already pretty good Kicker.

Good points.

 

The FO seems obsessed with finding high character try hards. That's nice, but you need TALENT. Take chances on guys with quick twitch explosiveness or imposing size and strength. You can coach up work ethic and discipline. You can't coach up 4.2 40s or 60 inch verticals.

[I Love The Skins]

Good points.

 

The FO seems obsessed with finding high character try hards. That's nice, but you need TALENT. Take chances on guys with quick twitch explosiveness or imposing size and strength. You can coach up work ethic and discipline. You can't coach up 4.2 40s or 60 inch verticals.

 

Reminds me of the old Abe Pollin Bullets team it seemed like they were only interested in good guys who try hard and were willing to let very talented guys who had character issues go to other teams.

[Darrell Green Fan]

 

 

Like you said, Voice of Reason, the organization is finally structured and there is a competent person at GM and coach (and QB for that matter) for the first time since maybe 1991.

 

I am really struggling to understand why you think they have a competent GM in place.  We will never know the input he had during Shanny but this much we do know:

 

His draft record in Tampa and Oakland was abysmal

 

Sure they got screwed by the cap penalty but let's not let the folks who thought this was a great idea off the hook just yet  He was the cap expert,  this was his jurisdiction.   It was a stupid gamble to take on the powerful NFL owners.   He rolled the dice and it came up snake eyes, so he holds responsibility for the results of that bad gamble.   

 

Forget DJax, he fell into his lap. Let's examine the players Bruce Allen spent months evaluating before deciding these were the FAs to turn this team around:

 

Jason Hatcher,  He hasn't made an impact since September, that was long before he got hurt.

 

Andre Roberts:  He is a cross between Rod "50/50" Gardner and Antoine Randel el. Yet another drop yesterday

 

Sean Lauvao:  You know it's bad when a Browns fan is laughing at your team for signing their worst OL to big money

 

Ryan Clark:  Cheap and available still does not mean you sign a guy who gave us Madeiu Williams like production.

 

Tracy Porter:  Waste of a roster spot. 

 

Not one good signing here, not one. Oh yeah, he found a punter. Good for you Bruce. 

 

Let's not forget he had the final say in signing Rak to that franchise deal.  Great move Bruce. 

 

Now the draft:  one count them one player who looks to be a regular contributor.  It's early but to date Long has failed to develop as has Moses.   The rest of the draft yielded nothing.   

 

Faith.  Do I really have faith in a guy whose response to a very viable question about the status of the team actually responded by spewing out some crap about a charity event?  That was a clown move by a clown "GM".

Edited December 29, 2014 by Darrell Green Fan

[Voice_of_Reason]

Good points.

 

The FO seems obsessed with finding high character try hards. That's nice, but you need TALENT. Take chances on guys with quick twitch explosiveness or imposing size and strength. You can coach up work ethic and discipline. You can't coach up 4.2 40s or 60 inch verticals.

To further the point. 

 

Let's go back to when Marty was hired, because that was really the first HC/FO hire that Snyder made:

 

2001 - Marty - Coach and Personnel

2002-2003 - Spurrier Coach, Vinny personnel.  Vinny just did whatever Dan and Spurrier wanted. DON'T tell me that Spurrier wasn't involved in personnel, because he was.  That's how we ended up with the 1998 Florida Gators team.  

2004-2007 - Gibbs essentially ran everything.  Vinny did what he was told.

2008-2009 - Vinny and Dan did their thing.

2010-2013 - Mike Shanahan ran everything.  Bruce did what he was told.  

2014 - Bruce (Actually, I think Morocco Brown before he left) made most of the decisions, but with a ton of input from the coaching staff.

 

So, over the period from 2001-2013, the only 2 years where the coach wasn't directly involved in player personnel was 2008-2009 under Zorn.  Otherwise, the coaches really had say, either officially or unofficially, over everything.

 

And coaches will always tend to migrate to the known, and to guys they're familiar with.  That's why Spurrier got Vinny to sign 8 former Gators, and Shanahan brought in a bunch of guys he was familiar with from Denver.  

 

What the good organizations do is have a front office that saves the coaches from making mistakes based on player/coach relationships, and guys who try really hard.  It's tough for a coach to look at a kid who's trying his guts out, really smart, knows where to be, but just isn't good enough, and tell him to skat.  A good personnel guy needs to step in and make that decision for the coach.

 

I'm not saying the coaches shouldn't have input.  They should.  Because ultimately, they have to coach the guys on the roster and are responsible for putting together a winning team.

 

But there is a reason that you have segregation of duties.  

 

Haslett and company have kept essentially the same core of guys, starters and backups, for 4 years, because they're comfortable with them.  Then they claim they don't have the talent on the roster.  SHOCKER! And you couldn't have figured this out in 2011/2012, you needed until 2014 to figure it out?

 

This is the true failing of the 'Skins organization structure.  I don't mind Bruce as President.  And if he's President, then ultimately everything is his responsibility.  But he's got to delegate the personnel side to a real personnel guy/group, because that's not his thing.  And then the coaches need to work in concert with that group.

 

That's the only way it works.  With one exception.  Bill Bellichick is the football czar.  But he's got a good personnel group that he listens to, and is a very objective dude.  He's also got a HOF QB that can help bail his ass out when he makes dumb personnel decisions. 

 

EDIT: One example of this was Reed Doughty.  I respect the hell out of Reed Doughty.  Smart player. Good guy.  Gave absolutely everything he had on every play. But he was a security blanket.  He was physically limited.  The team NEEDED to find a way to replace him.  But because they trusted him, it probably took 3 years longer than it should have.  Every year Doughty was on the team, it was a clear indication that the FO/Coaches were essentially being lazy and not finding the next Doughty, maybe one with a little more athletic ability. 

Goldson is another guy.  There are 100 guys just like him.  Why not get somebody younger and has more upside?  This year, there are finally a few (Kearse, etc).  But most that was due to necessity, because the other guys got injured. 

Edited December 29, 2014 by Voice_of_Reason

[Skinsinparadise]

Both Cooley and Russell said today they think they will hire a VP of player personnel (like AJ Smith), guess will find out soon.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Once again, Dan had his little fingers into everything when Gibbs was here? Why is this so misunderstood? It's not like it was a big secret.

He was also GM when Spurrier was here. The only times he wasn't were for Marty (whom he fired so he could play GM again) and Shanny (who doesn't exactly love how Dan handled his role as owner).

[Fred Jones]

Both Cooley and Russell said today they think they will hire a VP of player personnel (like AJ Smith), guess will find out soon.

 

Welcome news if true, but I would like to see someone besides AJ Smith, who to me is a retread.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm not sure why this has come as a surprise to anyone here.  We all dissected his draft record with the Bucs/Raiders.  I remember several news outlets reporting that he wasn't much of a personnel type guy, that he was mainly the type to....well, not acquire talent but bring old timers back to the stadium and plan stuff for the Skins.  Like he wasn't a guy to build a team he was just a guy to organize Redskins alumni days.  

 

Anyway, another disappointment.  IMO, the way to fix this team is simple...get someone who'll have the stones to tell Danny to F Off, trade everyone and horde draft picks, picking up a quality FA or two here and there along the way.  I'm firmly convinced it's not hard to build a great NFL franchise.  If Danny spent a fraction of the money he'd spent Haynesworth, McNabb, Deion, Bruce Smith, etc on scouting, we'd be in a different spot completely.

 

Hire the best scouts, horde the most draft picks.  Get a real GM who has a proven track record.

 

Problem is, no one would want to work for Danny now.  It's all over.  

[Rufus T Firefly]

Both Cooley and Russell said today they think they will hire a VP of player personnel (like AJ Smith), guess will find out soon.

Gotta make it look like we're making changes.