Jay Gruden: The First Step In the Robert Griffin III Experience?

[kleese]

For those that know (and love, or hate) me around these parts you know that I have been critical of rg3 since last spring. My criticism has had nothing to do with leaks or media spin-- most of that is garbage and I don't pay attention to it. I based my feelings on my observations and interpretations.

I am a huge Cousins fan and have been since before we traded up for RG. I think he is a pro bowl level talent.

Those two caveats are important to frame what I am about to say.

Once it became clear that Shan was a failure and a goner I started to think about the only thing that matters... As bad as we've been for 20 I will never give up hope. So I ask the simple question: "What represents the Redskins best chance to win a SB in the near future?"

The first answer is a GM and proper FO structure. For better or worse, we have that. Not sold on Allen, but he is definitely in charge and accountable. He has a team helping him and I do believe that Allen is a guy who will listen and not let ego take over.

Beyond that, what do we need?

My answers all come back to out QB. RG3 is not a sure bet IMO. He has flaws both on and off the field. And he is likely a bigger injury risk than most. If not properly cultivated, he could very well never reach his potential. But his potential is through the roof. He is a dynamic personality and player. His skills are unique and I think he is tough as nails. While I think he might annoy people, I do think he is ultimately likable and very capable of being a leader at a high level.

But he also has some damage now. Both physical and mental. That stuff matters. I think 2013 shook him specifically as it shook us all.

From where I sit the entire off season should be geared towards doing whatever it takes to make RG succeed. He comes first. Must make sure he is given full opportunity to succeed.

1. Coach. That's done. I'm a fan of the hire. I think Gruden is smart offensive mind (not a mad scientist genius like Chip Kelly) but solid; and I think he is flexible and open and willing to work with RG in an effort to make him comfortable. My gut tells me (and I'm obviously reaching here) that RG will like and respect Gruden and that they will have each other's back. I think step one is complete.

2. Trade Kirk. Total 180 from my previous takes on the matter. But let's face it, KC's presence has always seemed to make RG a little uncomfortable and as long as he is here, that will linger. First bad pass or dumb decision and the murmurs will start. Plus, we need help. I am 100% confident KC can land us a second rounder and still think a later first isn't out of the question. There are desperate teams out there and KC is quite possibly more attractive than whoever the third or fourth best QB prospect in this draft is.

3. OL is first priority. We need at least two new starters. I think we can live with one interior guy remaining and maybe Polumbus who actually had a pretty good year. Two at minimum, three very possible. Maybe even four. But our resources first and foremost should go there. I think FA makes more sense as I'd like some sure bets, but our early picks are also fair game. And we can also I cooperate Compton, Gettis, etc and see if any of those guys stick.

4. WR... Desperate for a playmaker opposite Garçon. I am fine with Hank and Robinson as 3rd, 4th, 5th type options but I either want one more true stud or one solid guy and young, speedy slot guy.

5. Misc... Maybe something I'm not thinking about? Another TE if we are afraid that Reed is fragile... A faster third down back, etc...

6. Everything else.

I know the defense sucks. But I don't want to even address it as a priority until ALL possible holes on offense are filled. Build the offense to a powerful level, give RG as much help as is reasonable to expect and then whatever we have left start working on the defense.

If this results in is losing high scoring games in 2014, then I can live with it. Assuming our offense is a real power and RG is thriving, then I can accept that and focus on defense next off season.

We have a gem that got a little nicked this year. Time to polish it and make it shine again.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

QB Coach. The most important move Coach Jay will make IMHO. 

 

Relatively young HC who now has to balance everything like he never has. Even younger potential OC who will be learning that job the next few years which is massive in itself. So it's IMPERATIVE we bring in an experienced, proven day-to-day guy who 10 is comfortable with to fully develop his limitless talent that will ultimately have him down as an all time great IMHO when alls said and done of we support him and do this right. 

 

Gruden is a good start to that end. 

 

Hail. 

[Warhead36]

We could use another playmaking WR. Other then Garcon, NONE of our WRs would even start on another team, hell they wouldn't even make the top 4 on many rosters. If Reed can stay healthy that reduces the need a little bit but we definitely need a speedy, explosive playmaking WR.

 

We need upgrades at RT and RG too. Chester and Polombus simply can not pass protect at all.

[skins island connection]

 kleese, I can see your angle on Cousins; yea, it could be a distraction, but it has always baffles me why teams have their starting QB and some scrub as back-up, and when the starter goes out, the scrub stinks up the joint.

Thats my issues with trading Cousins, at least for the next few years; until/if Griffin improves, we need a solid back-up, and i'd trust KC more than Grossman, regardless of whether he knows the system or not.

 

 Now, trusting  Gruden remains to be seen; coaching changes don't always work out with other teams, so i'm gonna take the sit back and see approach. you can have a good coach, QB, and system, but if they don't mesh, its worthless.

 

Why Haslett is still on the team is my biggest WTF moment; its been noted that they worked together in the arena league, and this could be a little buddy buddy thing, who knows for sure, but Haslett's failures extend way before the arena league, so it brings to question the reasoning why he was kept.

 

 But to go back to the original question, Gruden's first step is looking into the draft or FA for a few more receivers, or Griffin will likely not progress; it takes both of them to be successful, and outside of Garcon, everyone else is below par, some flat out suck. Maybe Gruden will find that tall lanky shifty receiver a la A.J. Green to compliment Garcon, but its definite that help is needed in that dept for Griffin to succeed.

 

SIC

[Voice_of_Reason]

A few thoughts:

 

1. I wouldn't trade Kirk.  And I honestly don't care if it rattles Robert.  If he can't get over that, then he's not the QB that he was billed to be.  If Robert doesn't think he can make it obvious that he's the best QB on the team with his play on the field, he needs to step up his play and/or go see a sports psychologist.  

2. I doubt that Kirk at this point fetches anything more than a #4, which is what we used to get him. And he's more valuable, probably, to this team ON the team rather than a #4.  If somebody offered a #1 or a #2, I'd listen. But I don't think that's going to happen.

3. I agree with GHH, the QB coach is absolutely an essential hire.  There is talk that the QB coach from Cincy, the Zampeesy (sp?) kid is a front runner for OC. But that still leaves an opening for QB Coach.  Not sure if somebody on the staff currently has the ability to fill that role. 

4. I don't subscribe to the Colts philosophy when they had Peyton when they spent 80% of their cap room on offense and then asked Dungy to try and cobble together a defense from spare parts. (Ok, they had Freeny and Mathis, and that was about it...)  Because that puts SO much pressure on your QB and offense to score every single time, it almost makes them less effective. I think you have to address some of the defensive issues, at least enough to get it to be a mid-level, 14-18 ranked defense.  You can win with that.  You can't win with the #31 defense.  

[Bantu]

Speed. We need speed everywhere.

On offense, guys that can separate and guys that can take it to the house from anywhere on the field. Guys that stretch the field.

Defensively, every position could use more athleticism. That'll get RGIII & the offense short fields from turnovers and more possessions from opponents punting more frequently.

[SkinfanAZ]

I'm not sure trading Cousins is the right choice right now anyway.  If RG3 get's hurt then we're kind of out of luck.  I say keep him.  Robert's ego shouldn't be so fragile that's scared of the next guy.  This is his job to lose. I agree with you on getting us a good second receiver to compliment Garcon however.  That would make a huge difference on this team. I'd also like to see Davis come back to form and start playing again.  I really think Mike didn't like the guy so he was benched and didn't get opportunities to play.  But those last few games he did look good. 

 

Defense has to be a priority this year in the draft, that and the o-line.  We need some additional corners and safety help, unless Thomas is a beast.   We also need another middle LB.  Please use this off season wisely. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

I agree Kleese, great OP. I think it would be great for our offense to have a slot/speed WR type that can take a dumpoff or slant and bust 25+ yards or make a couple guys miss and pick up a first down. We don't have that right now it puts a lot of pressure on the QB and the rest of the WRs. I think anybody that watched the team last year can see we lack speed. It would add another dynamic to our offense.

 

Perhaps Gruden can maximize Robinson and Chris Thompson. AR isn't exactly shifty but he does have great speed and I expect Thompson to be utilized more this season too. 

 

I'd really like to see what a new DC can do with our defense first before we invest too heavily there. Having said that, I think there are still some quality and affordable upgrades in FA that can plug holes and improve our defense that I hope we target.I dont think we are as far away from a good enough defense to win a SB, provided we have a top offense. 

I'm not sure trading Cousins is the right choice right now anyway.  If RG3 get's hurt then we're kind of out of luck.  I say keep him.  Robert's ego shouldn't be so fragile that's scared of the next guy.  

 

I'm not sure its about that necessarily. To me, it's more about having an asset we can trade that will rarely play because they sit behind an even greater asset. 

 

It's not worth it to keep him IMO on the chance Griffin goes down. I'm not saying ignore depth but you can get a serviceable backup QB, and ones that other teams won't trade for. 

 

Besides, probably 95% of teams struggle when their star starting QB goes down. Those are the risks you have to take to field the best NFL team you can. 

[Llevron]

Cool OP. This is a drive by (will come back and discuss more of your post when im not supposed to be working) but I still believe we have another GREAT pass catching threat on the roster and we just need a coach that will help him get his head out of his ass. 

 

Fred Davis is still the second best pass catcher on this team. Of that i am sure. His value is now boo boo and he has been here his whole NFL life. Give him a few bones, promise him that the jerk that black balled him is out of the door, and give him a chance. With Reed, Davis and Garcon we can make TDs happen. 

 

I still believe in that guy! 

[fearlessNelms]

I hear ya on trading Cousins to recoup some draft picks, but I wouldn't trade him. Let's be honest, Griffin is unproven. I'll give him a semi pass on this past season because of the knee injury, but some of his decisions where to go with the ball in year two were downright grisly. In his rookie year, he was such a threat to run that it opened up the passing game to Red Sea proportions. Yes, he was accurate in his rookie season, but again, that offense in year one was tailor made fror Griffin and he thrived in it. Add to that the fact that opposing defenses had no film on him and the Shanahans surprised everyone by running the read option, it was really no surprise the numbers Griffin put up. The read option covered up a lot of flaws in Griffin and helped make him look better than he was in my opinion. This year he was exposed a little and I'm hopeful that Gruden puts in a system were Griffin can thrive and won't get caught up in trying to make him into a pure pocket passer.

 

As for Cousins. For all the people that say he had his chance in the three games he started and didn't fare well, I say this. Knowing what we know now about how disfunctional this team was by December, how can anyone expect that Cousins was going to come and play very well, let alone light things up. He was thrown into an impossible situation and all things considered, he wasn't that bad. Those three games are not a fair assesment of the quarterback he is or can be and shouldn't be viewed as such. 

 

I'm a supporter of both our QB's, but realize that Griffin is the starter. I'm fine with that and will just hope that the new staff puts in an offense that plays to what he does best. That, along with his knee injury not being an issue anymore, I believe Griffin can get us to where we wanna be. With that said, I would keep Cousins close by and if that makes Griffin a little uneasy, well..... 

[repo_4]

Cool OP. This is a drive by (will come back and discuss more of your post when im not supposed to be working) but I still believe we have another GREAT pass catching threat on the roster and we just need a coach that will help him get his head out of his ass. 

 

Fred Davis is still the second best pass catcher on this team. Of that i am sure. His value is now boo boo and he has been here his whole NFL life. Give him a few bones, promise him that the jerk that black balled him is out of the door, and give him a chance. With Reed, Davis and Garcon we can make TDs happen. 

 

I still believe in that guy! 

 

I would like for this to be the case but I just don't see it. He has loads of talent, there is no doubt. But for him to have so much talent and just be, ehh, in production tells me that he just doesn't have the drive to be great. I have seen some stories to back this up. I'm not saying he can't be good, but you can't coach a guy to want to be great. You either have that desire or you don't.

[LaRonDontLikeUgly]

I agree with your assessments of Cousins, Allen, and Gruden.

 

I agree that Gruden and RG3 will get along (at least initially).

 

I agree that we need to bolster our interior line and scoop up a receiving threat in FA if possible.

 

Everything else I pretty much disagree with though.  

 

Keep Cousins… don't pamper RG3 just because you think having another young stud on the roster makes him nervous.  He SHOULD be nervous.  You think Montana was ever nervous with Steve Young on the bench?  Maybe.  Sure.  But he still went out and won 2 SBs while Young waited in the wings.  If RG3 can't rise above a little bit of competition-- you don't want him on the team anyway.  Trade RG3 before you trade Cousins.

 

The next thing I can't vibe with is ignoring the defense in the offseason.  In fact, I think improving ALL areas of our defense should be our first (and maybe only) priority.  Every single player on our defense is mediocre (or worse) if you think about it.  Not one elite guy at any position.  Kerrigan is the best we've got-- and he's not elite yet.  Also, when you bolster your defense you are generally creating more competition on Special Teams-- which we desperately need.

 

If you look at the teams remaining in the playoffs you will notice a pretty obvious trend here when it comes to points allowed during the 2013 season:

 

 

POINTS ALLOWED:

 

Seahawks 1st

Panthers 2nd

49ers 3rd

Saints 4th

Colts 9th

Patriots 10th

Chargers 11th

Broncos 22nd

 

 

Redskins 31st

 

(The Broncos rank is deceiving. Lots of garbage yards/points but they still have the #8 rush defense and look pretty good when healthy.)

 

I'm confident that a healthy RG3 will elevate all the guys we have around him.  It's time to load up on D and take some of the pressure off Griffin and this young offense.

[kleese]

A few thoughts:

1. I wouldn't trade Kirk. And I honestly don't care if it rattles Robert. If he can't get over that, then he's not the QB that he was billed to be. If Robert doesn't think he can make it obvious that he's the best QB on the team with his play on the field, he needs to step up his play and/or go see a sports psychologist.

2. I doubt that Kirk at this point fetches anything more than a #4, which is what we used to get him. And he's more valuable, probably, to this team ON the team rather than a #4. If somebody offered a #1 or a #2, I'd listen. But I don't think that's going to happen.

3. I agree with GHH, the QB coach is absolutely an essential hire. There is talk that the QB coach from Cincy, the Zampeesy (sp?) kid is a front runner for OC. But that still leaves an opening for QB Coach. Not sure if somebody on the staff currently has the ability to fill that role.

4. I don't subscribe to the Colts philosophy when they had Peyton when they spent 80% of their cap room on offense and then asked Dungy to try and cobble together a defense from spare parts. (Ok, they had Freeny and Mathis, and that was about it...) Because that puts SO much pressure on your QB and offense to score every single time, it almost makes them less effective. I think you have to address some of the defensive issues, at least enough to get it to be a mid-level, 14-18 ranked defense. You can win with that. You can't win with the #31 defense.

1. I was always on the keep Kirk train, but I've changed my tune. While it might be "babying" RG a bit, I think it is reality. That of course is far from the only reason I deal him, which leads to....

2. I disagree. I think KC gets us a 2nd rounder minimum. If he doesn't, then no I would not trade him. But teams out there are desperate. Honestly, if you are the Browns and you have two firsts... Do you want to invest in Johnny Football or Bortles on the heels of the Weeden flameout? Or does it make more sense to keep your two firsts and risk a second rounder on KC who is still young but also has some experience? Cousins is likely a better prospect than the third/fourth QBs in this draft and some teams were likely to use a second on them anyway.

3. Not really sure how much that matters; it can't hurt of course. I think JG will essentially be his QB coach, but a guy with a good understanding of mechanics etc and another ear for RG certainly won't hurt.

4. I don't advocate NEVER addressing the defense--just not before take care of the offense. I don't want to try and win consistently with a bad D--- although teams have done it... Pats went to the SB a year when they were ranked 31st in defense and the 2006 Colts were 32nd against the run. But of course, strategizing to win with a terrible defense is not something I desire.

[gortiz]

didn't want to start my own thread and I apologizing for jacking ... 

 

but one thing I noticed, and this could be old news, but Jay was pretty vague.when asked about Robert and I think even said he has not seen any film on him.

 

When asked about Alfred and Pierre on 980 he went off with some detailed things he liked, in addition he might have mentioned that he saw film on them already. I just found it interesting. I really think he is going to handle Roberto with kid gloves. 

[CrypticVillain]

Kleese, after the last three games and the previous hot backup QBs have bombed, I doubt Cousins could get us a 2nd. And if we can't get a second, there is no need to trade him...

[Mr. Sinister]

didn't want to start my own thread and I apologizing for jacking ... 

 

but one thing I noticed, and this could be old news, but Jay was pretty vague.when asked about Robert and I think even said he has not seen any film on him.

 

When asked about Alfred and Pierre on 980 he went off with some detailed things he liked, in addition he might have mentioned that he saw film on them already. I just found it interesting. I really think he is going to handle Roberto with kid gloves. 

 

He mentioned the same type of details with Robert that he did with Garçon and Morris. He did see film, just not a lot of it.

[NoCalMike]

Yeah I don't see any evidence on the field that Kirk improved his trade value, if anything I think it is less now than it was before he took a snap in 2013. That said I think he could still end up being a starting QB on another team eventually.  I think as it stands now he will likely just play out his initial contract as Robert's backup, and then when he becomes a free agent he will seek out a chance to be a starter and we will see what happens.

 

I think what people forget is that while the team was 3-13, they are 1 season removed from 10-6.  Which is the real team?  It's probably a bit of both, if you split the difference we're looking at a 6-9 win team with the current roster, assuming the starters stay healthy and don't miss significant time.  We can go over the factors of why 10-6 became 3-13 and talk about the differences in the seasons, but for every argument there is a counter point and when all is said and done the 2012 & 2013 teams were what their records were. Couple that with a division that will likely be won again in 2014 with 9 or 10 wins, and I think the situation is not as dire as we think.

 

Robert obviously will have to be better than he was in 2013, a lot better, but with the right upgrades to personnel, his transition into becoming a better QB will be a lot more smooth. 

[brettstr]

One of the questions I pointed out about Robert last summer. Was he doing all the necessary things to improve as a QB? i was roasted on this board for saying such things. I believed he was 21 and still needed development, mentally, believing he had not yet arrived to the level of comfort despite the show he put on last year. I also pointed out that Cousins was not the answer, relying most on the Seattle game where  I saw no fire or power in leading with a lead. I do not believe Cousins will ever be the answer here, I could be wrong. I don't believe Robert will be successful unless he is willing to MENTALLY get over the injury and rid himself of self proclaimed fame at this time. We may be seeing a one hit wonder in him. Hopefully not. Otherwise its back to the drawing board. So the Expeince factor the OP has oulined is true and blue.

 

Hail

[gortiz]

He mentioned the same type of details with Robert that he did with Garçon and Morris. He did see film, just not a lot of it.

Okay, I just noticed when he went from detailed questions about Robert to questions about Alfred and Pierre their was a uptick in enthusiasm, 

 

Not saying anything, he just sounded much more comfortable/unguarded talking about the other two as opposed to Robert.