moondog Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 This is when I see that you have totally lost grasp with what is going on GHH. Every one of these successful NFL teams you mentioned or even those you don't have one common thread: a great pocket passer. Stafford and Brady are two guys that run a lot of this concept but they are two of the most gifted passers in the league. The same is true of any example in the league. The future success of this team rests almost solely on Robert's ability and desire to get better as a passer. If he doesn't do that, Lombardi would struggle to help this mess of a team. And that's not even addressing the idea of Art Briles. Even without the fact that Robert's own teammates have been quoted as saying it would be a disastrous move for the locker room and the way all of the other players view Robert (which is already a legitimate concern) the common fan can see how hiring Briles would look bad on Robert and it would only throw an even bigger wrench into the mess. A coaching change is likely the correct path and one that will happen but I think Briles may be one of the worst possibilities out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 My quick and dirty breakdown of Briles/Baylor offense: (anyone feel free to add/discuss) SUM: Spread formation, aggressive vertical Air-raid based passing game, diverse running game with ZBS and man schemes that uses some read-option concepts in the run game, uses packaged play concepts to build different distinct plays into each play HOW: o Spread formation to the extreme, WRs with extra wide splits outside the numbers near the sideline o Dictates and attacks match-ups o Ultra fast tempo, even faster then Oregon PHILOSOPHY BRIEFLY: o LOVES OL & DL considers them team leaders and the key to having a successful team o Builds the offense around the talent whether its the QB or the TEs o Although aggressively pass first still maintains run/pass balance o Uptempo is a way of life from how they play to how they practice to how they teach One way to think of Briles/offense in the NFL would be as Chip Kelly's smarter, more confident more aggressive older brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyron Biggums Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Even without the fact that Robert's own teammates have been quoted as saying it would be a disastrous move for the locker room I haven't heard anything, and I surely haven't heard of any names attached to your statement. If you have that information please share. Hail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclops Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I haven't heard anything, and I surely haven't heard of any names attached to your statement. If you have that information please share. Hail Lol. No one has reported that at all. Maybe Chris Russell said it but he has swung and missed on everything that past couple years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted December 28, 2013 Author Share Posted December 28, 2013 This is when I see that you have totally lost grasp with what is going on GHH. ..... You know moondog man, I'm way too happy this weekend knowing that the guys who have held Robert back from day one in that regard are about to be kicked the Hell away from him to even bother getting into that with you what should be for another thread. I would suggest you offer that view up to Mike though. It would probably work well for him as a parting, blame deflection gift leak. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyron Biggums Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Lol. No one has reported that at all. Maybe Chris Russell said it but he has swung and missed on everything that past couple years. Yeah, I was wondering. I thought I missed something big. Hail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I haven't heard anything, and I surely haven't heard of any names attached to your statement. If you have that information please share. Hail Searching. I've read the article, just need to find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCClybun Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Great write up GHH. Yeah this guy works for me. After this debacle of this season we need a serious change in direction. Plus we have to somehow ulitise what we have in RG3 before we send his career down the pan. Get a strong DC in to take the all of the pressure on that side of the ball and lets get moving....well there is special teams to sort as well but we'll leave that from here One question, given the write up details the multiple reads open to the QB, for me this season RG3 has just been so poor at reading the defense and going through his progressions...constantly locked in on one target or one side of the field. Are we puuting this down to a combination of poor coaching / oline protection / etc etc ... Is this a regression in his game that the new HC should be able to resolve with ease ? I tried to explain what's happening with Robert this year... http://httr24-7.com/blog/a-brief-ish-rant-the-real-difference-between-kirk-cousins-and-robert-griffin-iii/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsTillIDie Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 This is when I see that you have totally lost grasp with what is going on GHH. Every one of these successful NFL teams you mentioned or even those you don't have one common thread: a great pocket passer. Stafford and Brady are two guys that run a lot of this concept but they are two of the most gifted passers in the league. The same is true of any example in the league. The future success of this team rests almost solely on Robert's ability and desire to get better as a passer. If he doesn't do that, Lombardi would struggle to help this mess of a team. And that's not even addressing the idea of Art Briles. Even without the fact that Robert's own teammates have been quoted as saying it would be a disastrous move for the locker room and the way all of the other players view Robert (which is already a legitimate concern) the common fan can see how hiring Briles would look bad on Robert and it would only throw an even bigger wrench into the mess. A coaching change is likely the correct path and one that will happen but I think Briles may be one of the worst possibilities out there. Don't want to hijack the thread, but let's not forget that taking drops into account, RGIII was the second-most accurate passer in football last year, behind only Aaron Rodgers. And I believe he was 1st in yards per attempt (might've also been second behind Rodgers). He showcased all of the attributes of a gifted passer last year -- the arm, the accuracy, the touch, the deep ball. After this season, it's not unfair to question many things re: RGIII but I don't think work ethic or desire is one of them. If you believe "the future success of this team rests almost solely on Robert's ability and desire to get better as a passer" (and I'd agree our future rests on him), then surely it makes sense to hire the bright, innovative mind with whom Griffin won the Heisman? It seems like personal relationship failures have stunted our quarterback's development -- that wouldn't be an issue with Briles, if nothing else. When it comes to Briles, I think we need to look past the first 2% of his tenure. Sure, some members of the media might go on a crusade, and sure, some players in the lockerroom might second-guess the hiring. But if Briles is the coach to lead us forward, he'll convince all the players he'll need to convince. Winning cures all, as they say, and any new coach will have to win over the team in his first season regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rskins06 Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 YW man. See, the only real qualm I'd have about any Robert/ Briles link would be if it caused any problems within the locker room. If, say, most of the players would be isolated and think the move was specifically for Robert etc, then obviously it would be a no-go. But I tend to believe as soon as they'd get to sit down and listen to his philosophy, they'd all be buying into it. And once the wins started happening, there'd be no turning back. The media stuff is immaterial if your successful. Hail. I really disagree with this, I believe there would be immediate issues with RGIII and the locker room. Ther perception (often reality) is RGIII and both the Shannahans do not get along (even though the offense clearly looks better with Kirk Cousins), the Shannahans get fired, then you bring in RGIIIs College Coach. Why? Is it because RGIII can't adapt, so instead of him improving and learning to be a pocket passer, you bring in his old HC so he can do what he is familiar with? Is it because you want to please RGIII? I believe this would hinder RGIII and lock him into the idea of him being a running QB. The offense Kyle brought in last year, takes a lot of concepts from RGIII college days, where did that get us? RGIII hurt and then lobbying (with his father) to be a pocket passer rather than a running QB, where did that get us, RGIII regressing while trying to be a pocket QB. We seen this play out in earlier years (Clinton Portis, LeVar Arrington, any star player who came to DC), RGIII then feels more empowered and then before you know it, teammates start playing for individual goals (because that is the perception with RGIII) and go back to the mentality to come to Washington for a paycheck. If you blow this up and fire everyone, I believe you start from SCRATCH!! You take away any perceptions which could interfere with the job of building a TEAM. You take away ANY and ALL things which remotely appear to be one players preferential treatment. Bring in anyone BUT Briles who can begin to build this team without having any preconceived idea the Coach was brought in because the QB wanted him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsTillIDie Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Good write up GHH. I like the idea of Art Briles leading our offense. I've been so envious of what Chip Kelly has brought to Philly that if Briles can have a similar effect on our offense, I'll take any and all hiccups along the way. Joe Gibbs only met with the defensive coaching staff once a week. The '86 Bears defensive players told Mike Ditka they didn't play for him, they weren't his players. They played for Buddy Ryan. If we can bring in Briles to lead the offense and another leading defensive mind to coordinate the defense (my dream - Rex Ryan, but he'll be a head coach somewhere), I think we'd be on the fastrack to re-establishing ourselves as one of the ascending franchises in the league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rskins06 Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Even if RGIII (or his father) has nothing to do with Briles being hired, the perception will be there and it will become a distraction for the team. The media would not let it go, you would hear the questions all the time, especially if things went bad. Granted, things may go well, not saying they would be bad, just do not need to bring any more distractions to a franchise which already has enough drama and perceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I haven't heard anything, and I surely haven't heard of any names attached to your statement. If you have that information please share. Hail I'm really sorry, I spent the last fifteen minutes searching for the article. I cannot find it because it's not something under a title about that specific topic. What I can tell you is that it was written by John Keim - he is the only reporter I read anything from anymore. I can also tell you that he quoted a Redskins player who was unnamed that said it would be viewed very poorly in the locker room concerning RGIII and that it would definitely make players feel like Robert is controlling the fate of coaches, which screws up the normal balance a team needs to feel of coaches in charge over the players. As much as I hate other reporters and all these "anonymous" sources, I trust Keim and I think he's a good one. Again, all of this is not to support Shanahan and to say he should remain, simply that I really fear if the players would be able to trust Robert if this all went down. I'm not even disputing Briles' qualifications although I think they are being overblown by many here. I just think it could result in every bit as big a problem as we already have if not worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 It's obvious people don't watch Baylor...at all. The Shanahan's probably ran Robert more his rookie year than Briles did his entire time at Baylor. I'm not sure if the stats would back that up but it sure seemed that way. I'm just saying Baylor is a "take what the defense gives you" style offense. 5-6 men in the box they're gonna run it down your throat. You stack the box they're gonna attack you through the air. And everything in between. The last thing being making the QB a primary part of the rush offense. I'm very intrigued by the idea of Briles coming here. Let's not forget, the guy is the head coach of BAYLOR University. Just 5 or so years ago they were the laughing stock of their conference. And he's quickly turned them into the top school in the state of Texas. Think about that for a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I think there are some important things to point at in regards to exactly what Briles even runs. GHH did an excellent job in the OP, and I'm sitting in the airport waiting for my flight to cover the game this weekend, so I have some time to kill. In it's rawest form, the air raid was a system that relies heavily in a passing attack (65-75% or so of all plays run). Briles utilized a system that was based on the "Air Raid" in Houston. The Air Raid, again in its rawest form, has many built on reads for the QB and receivers to run. Just to give an example of one, four verticals can turn to 2 comebacks, 2 verts based on the look the defense gives. It's also, again, in it's rawest form, based off of no huddle. It uses the shallow cross, mesh and screen concepts in order to open up the long ball. It's roots, though, are basically from LaVell Edwards. The name might sound familiar, and it should, as he is also looked at as someone who had a large hand in the West Coast Offense. But it's overall concept is the brain child of Hal Mumme and Mike Leach. Briles was the RB coach at Texas Tech under Leach. (Interestingly enough, Sumlin is another guy who is an "Air Raid" guy. I've read some non sense about the offensive lines splits being different in the air raid, but I think it's crap, oline splits are very preference oriented. But is what Briles utilizes at Baylor actually Air Raid? You tell me. One of the primary concepts behind the Air Raid was the heavy emphasis on the pass game. But with the advent of "packaged plays" (plays where there are multiple options within one called play) that idea changed. Baylor's 2013 offense averages roughly 49 rushes a game. They throw about 33 times a game. His system is Air Raid primarily only in pass concept. With Griffin in 2011, 44 rushes, 32 passes/game. In that year, Griff accounted for 179 rushes, Ganaway had 250. Briles emphasizes a strong offense and defensive front. He loves running the ball. His system is not Leach's Air Raid. Like most systems, it's a mish mash of various ideas and concepts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Great post GHH. Thanks for the hard work. I certainly learned a bit more. Be a shame to get away from the power running with guys like Young and Morris back there though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJ Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 My questions are this. 1) How much of a turnover will there be on our OF and DF IF Briles is our next HC? 2) How many years will it take for us to become successful? Briles style is very interesting. I am not saying "Yes" or "No" for him to be our next HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 My questions are this. 1) How much of a turnover will there be on our OF and DF IF Briles is our next HC? 2) How many years will it take for us to become successful? Briles style is very interesting. I am not saying "Yes" or "No" for him to be our next HC. I mean... These questions aren't really answerable at the moment. We need another receiving threat. (I think Hank is fine, but we'll need a 2/3 type). We need to upgrade the OL. But those things are necessities regardless. The defense depends on his coordinator. There's nothing else to say there. Who knows how long it will take to be successful. These aren't questions about Briles. They're just questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCClybun Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 My questions are this. 1) How much of a turnover will there be on our OF and DF IF Briles is our next HC? 2) How many years will it take for us to become successful? Briles style is very interesting. I am not saying "Yes" or "No" for him to be our next HC. 1.) The offense and defense need a lot of turnover anyway. You could argue that, even if we went to a similar system, four of our five starting linemen need to get replaced, we need a lot more speed and size on defense. Turnover is going to be heavy whether it's Briles, Gruden, BOB, or the Easter Bunny. 2.) Hopefully less than four years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyron Biggums Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_Qk9DdM21g Baylor All Access Some info on Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 The offense Kyle brought in last year, takes a lot of concepts from RGIII college days, Actually no; not at all really. Other then the Saints game the offense does not take a lot of concepts from Baylor. Griffin prolly ran the triple option more with the Kyle then he did with Briles. The base formation with Kyle was 1 RB 1 FB 1 TE usually all in the same backfield sometimes they added a WR the base formations at Baylor were spread formations. Baylor used zone-read Kyle read-option: dive-read/midline read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJ Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 1.) The offense and defense need a lot of turnover anyway. You could argue that, even if we went to a similar system, four of our five starting linemen need to get replaced, we need a lot more speed and size on defense. Turnover is going to be heavy whether it's Briles, Gruden, BOB, or the Easter Bunny. 2.) Hopefully less than four years. Well, my concern with you and what KDawg are saying is will Snyder allow Briles 4 years or so like he did Shanahan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Our OL doesn't form a pocket for the QB. Often our center ends up right on the QB, because he's been pushed back into the QB. The right side of the OL is just flat out bad. When we have to have WRs and TEs backing up the OL, that is beyond bad, it's pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Well, my concern with you and what KDawg are saying is will Snyder allow Briles 4 years or so like he did Shanahan? I mean, is that a concern with Briles or in general? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 The irony here, concerning some of the detractors, is that the Baylor o-line and that run game, get after it. If need be, they can run their way to a victory. And thats what I love. Balance. I can kill you in a gunfight, or a knife fight. Great stuff being posted in here. Good work, fellas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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