Deangelo Hall- Retire Him A Redskin Or Let Him Walk?

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

So bashing D.Hall in a prior thread and then turning around saying "you've always been a deangelo hall supporter when others were bashing him" isn't flip flopping? It's just being a fan?

 

I KNOW you are not talking about me dude. 

[RG3Hunna]

I KNOW you are not talking about me dude. 

If you know i'm not talking about you why are you acting defensive? 

[Mr. Sinister]

if we lose both Hall and Rak, im not sure who this fan base will chose to vilify on defense next year.

 

 

My guess is that either Kerrigan (or maybe Amerson) will  be the new target for everyone to project their frustration onto.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

If you know i'm not talking about you why are you acting defensive? 

 

I'm not acting defensive. I know you make up childish bs all the time and wanted to make sure you were not involving me in it.

 

 

Do you realize how you sound? You're telling ppl that if they criticize a player then they can't call themselves supporters. That's asinine.

 

No player is perfect and when they **** up, they should be called out on it. Trust me, their feelings won't be hurt.

 

If ppl wanted to bash D-Hall, that's fine. I recognize that he is the type of player that will make mistakes due to play style but more than makes up for it. Others don't but that makes them no less of a fan/

[Mr. Sinister]

If you know i'm not talking about you why are you acting defensive? 

 

Who exactly are you talking about, then? Just curious. I've seen plenty of people consistently bash D Hall across the board (even now, almost hoping that he reverts back to "Meangelo," so they can be proven right)  since the moment he donned a Skins uniform. I've seen plenty of people support him, sometimes going a little overboard. Most of the time, I see people legitimately criticize him, whenever he either got a penalty, or played poorly, but also praise him when he balled out, and recognize that even though he's had his moments, maybe he isn't as bad (attitude wise) as people want him to be, and that he loves being here, and suiting up, giving it everything he's got on Sundays.

 

So exactly who/where are the flip floppers that seem to be in abundance? Seems like everyone has been pretty consistent in their opinion of him, whether positive or negative, not that opinions can't change.

[Mocountyskins]

I've always liked Hall and I hope that he re-signs with us. I think he will re-sign with us and I think that he likes the organization. Plus we have much larger concerns. Such As Orakpo, London and 2 safety positions.

[pjfootballer]

He's 29 and having the best year of his career - almost certainly all-pro.    Plenty of teams, including several playoff teams, need corners.  He'll never be worth more than he is now.  Why would he even consider a 1 year contract?

 

These young guys that can take over - do they have names?  I don't see anyone on the roster that has proven ability to cover Bryant, Jackson or Cruz other than Hall.

I've never had a problem with DeAngelo's play.  He's had a 10 cent head most of his career.  But he's having the best year of his career at this point.  I can't say that I was upset when we let him go earlier in the year and I was hoping they'd re-sign him, which they did.  No doubt he's the best CB we have on the roster right now, but he's an old 29 and I'm not sure I'd want to give him multiple years at this point.  I could go 2 years if necessary, but like all of us, that is not our decision.

 

The 8 and 5 million people were throwing around here would be out of my range for wanting to sign him. I think one guy said between 2 and 4 million.  I'd offer him a 2 year 7 million.  I wouldn't go beyond that.  What you get with DeAngelo is what you get.  He gets burned, but he's a playmaker.  FWIW, yes, I'd try and re-sign him this offseason.  But like the past with our FO, we can't let our hearts rule.  When a guy is done, he's done.  Time to cut the cord.  Not saying Hall is done, but because of his age and mileage, you can't commit too far down the road.

 

Some have said Belichick will franchise Talib.  I'm not sure that's something Bill will do.  Just my guess and opinion, but Bill's ego says he can replace anyone but Brady.

 

Oh, and I wanted to add, looks like we have a good CB with Amerson and I think Minnifield being on the PS will help him.  He didn't get a chance to play at all last year being on IR, so this is really his rookie year.  If Crawford can recover, we have 3 good (not great) CBs waiting in the wings.  Re-Sign Hall and have Amerson, Minnifield and Crawford on the roster.  Sign a FA to replace Wilson.

[DC9]

if we lose both Hall and Rak, im not sure who this fan base will chose to vilify on defense next year.

as far as Hall goes, ive been consistently in his corner. He is a game changer, always has been. He is days away from being the youngest corner to get 40 picks, Champ being a few days younger to do it. He is also the only player in history to have more than 4 TDs from FRs and 4TDs from picks. Yes, sometimes hes more on than not, just like pretty much every other player.

 

That's a good question.  No doubt it'll be whoever is brought in through FA to play Safety, lol.

 

I've been very critical of Hall in the past.  But one thing I've always called Hall when he hasn't been playing good cornerback is that he's always been a "good football player".

 

There is a difference.  This year and even going back to late last year he's been both.

[Mocountyskins]

 

 

Do you realize how you sound? You're telling ppl that if they criticize a player then they can't call themselves supporters. That's asinine.

 

 

I know what you mean. I can be a huge "hater" sometimes. "so and so sucks" "We suck" "so and so is a idiot" but at the end of the day I always will put Redskins#1. Some people like to only say good things and won't say anything negative and others like myself will be heavy critics. But at the end of the day we both love the Redskins.

[RG3Hunna]

I'm not acting defensive. I know you make up childish bs all the time and wanted to make sure you were not involving me in it.

 

 

Do you realize how you sound? You're telling ppl that if they criticize a player then they can't call themselves supporters. That's asinine.

 

No player is perfect and when they **** up, they should be called out on it. Trust me, their feelings won't be hurt.

 

If ppl wanted to bash D-Hall, that's fine. I recognize that he is the type of player that will make mistakes due to play style but more than makes up for it. Others don't but that makes them no less of a fan/

No i'm telling people if you criticized D.Hall and he starts playing well you shouldn't say you always supported him you should say you were wrong in your critique and he has proved you wrong. How is that hard to understand? I bashed D.Hall you can see my previous post and I can admit it and he has proved me wrong and I have come out and said he has proved me wrong, i don't all of sudden then get to say something like "I always supported D.Hall and I never knew why people unfairly criticized him".

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

No i'm telling people if you criticized D.Hall and he starts playing well you shouldn't say you always supported him you should say you were wrong in your critique and he has proved you wrong. How is that hard to understand? I bashed D.Hall you can see my previous post and I can admit it and he has proved me wrong and I have come out and said he has proved me wrong, i don't all of sudden then get to say something like "I always supported D.Hall and I never knew why people unfairly criticized him".

Because criticizing someone for something does not mean you don't support them

Get out of your black and white world dude

[pjfootballer]

I have to agree with this - if Minnifield is ready to replace Hall, they better take him off the practice squad ASAP.  I think the other 31 GMs would like to sign a pro-bowl-quality corner for the league minimum.

 

Crawford and Minnifield are only being brought up as possible replacements because of wishful thinking and the inability to prove this notion wrong.  But I can't imagine any organization waiving players who they expect to be their starting corners in the future.  Amerson has 4 starts under his belt.  Hopefully, he ends up being a great one, but let's not get delusional quite yet.

 

.

One thing that bothers me about our organization over the years is the impatience with younger players.  We NEVER seem to develop any young players.  Amerson, Minnifield and Crawford HAVE to be given a chance.  You can't roll with old players forever.

[DC9]

No i'm telling people if you criticized D.Hall and he starts playing well you shouldn't say you always supported him you should say you were wrong in your critique and he has proved you wrong.

 

 

You can support someone by showing tough love, Hunna.

[Mr. Sinister]

No i'm telling people if you criticized D.Hall and he starts playing well you shouldn't say you always supported him you should say you were wrong in your critique and he has proved you wrong. 

 

So let me get this straight. When you criticize a player (this is purely from a "Legit" standpoint, not some of the personal BS that some people spew on here) it means (in your eyes, since these are your own words) that they don't support them? Is only speaking of a players performance in a positive light (even when it isn't true) what you would call supportive?

 

What would it mean to you if people were to criticize someone legitimately, but at the same time, acknowledge that they are capable of playing better, and that they aren't the only ones that are playing poorly (hoping that they turn it around? Does that seem like someone is not showing support to you?

 

 

How is that hard to understand? I bashed D.Hall you can see my previous post and I can admit it and he has proved me wrong and I have come out and said he has proved me wrong, i don't all of sudden then get to say something like "I always supported D.Hall and I never knew why people unfairly criticized him".

 "

 

 

 

From what I've read so far, some of the people I see saying that have meant it, because I was there when they've made similar comments. I think you are getting confused with legit criticism and unfair criticism. 

[Mocountyskins]

I personally think it is the scheme we have been playing for the last few years which has been the huge problem and not too many of the individual players. You can look up my history and see that I occasionally have brought this up. I think that most of the time when Hall played poorly it was because of the scheme.

 

Too many times have I seen us in a 3rd and 1 or 3rd and 2 situation and Hall and the other corners are playing about 10 yards off the ball. Quick pass and before the corner can even break on the ball the WR has already picked up the first down. Too many times in 3rd and long have I seen the corners playing press. Too many times have I seen the Redskins play cover 2 in 3rd and 1. Too many times have we blitzed 8 and not gotten any pressure. Too many times. The answer has always been the defensive coach/schemes.

[RG3Hunna]

I've never had a problem with DeAngelo's play.  He's had a 10 cent head most of his career.  But he's having the best year of his career at this point.  I can't say that I was upset when we let him go earlier in the year and I was hoping they'd re-sign him, which they did.  No doubt he's the best CB we have on the roster right now, but he's an old 29 and I'm not sure I'd want to give him multiple years at this point.  I could go 2 years if necessary, but like all of us, that is not our decision.

 

The 8 and 5 million people were throwing around here would be out of my range for wanting to sign him. I think one guy said between 2 and 4 million.  I'd offer him a 2 year 7 million.  I wouldn't go beyond that.  What you get with DeAngelo is what you get.  He gets burned, but he's a playmaker.  FWIW, yes, I'd try and re-sign him this offseason.  But like the past with our FO, we can't let our hearts rule.  When a guy is done, he's done.  Time to cut the cord.  Not saying Hall is done, but because of his age and mileage, you can't commit too far down the road.

 

Some have said Belichick will franchise Talib.  I'm not sure that's something Bill will do.  Just my guess and opinion, but Bill's ego says he can replace anyone but Brady.

 

Oh, and I wanted to add, looks like we have a good CB with Amerson and I think Minnifield being on the PS will help him.  He didn't get a chance to play at all last year being on IR, so this is really his rookie year.  If Crawford can recover, we have 3 good (not great) CBs waiting in the wings.  Re-Sign Hall and have Amerson, Minnifield and Crawford on the roster.  Sign a FA to replace Wilson.

Thank you, that's what i'm saying $2 - $4 million a year is more than fair for Deangelo halls services. 

[Bang]

So bashing D.Hall in a prior thread and then turning around saying "you've always been a deangelo hall supporter when others were bashing him" isn't flip flopping? It's just being a fan?

 

Nothing is wrong on changing your opinion but then don't come out pretending you were always in support of the player that's what irritates me. I've come out multiple times and said Deangelo hall is a bum and he's proving me wrong and i'll admit I was wrong but where are the other posters who were also calling him a bum? all of a sudden everyone always loved D.Hall? that's my point. lol

 

I saw the same thing with RGIII when he started struggling everyone who was saying how much they loved RGIII and knew we made the right decision in trading for him all of sudden started coming out the wood works calling him a "bum" saying "I told you guys the guy couldn't be a pocket passer" "I told you guys he's arrogant and all about himself" "Trade him while he still has value" "Start Kirk he's better"

 

All i'm saying is if I see someone flip flop i'm gonna call them out, nothing is wrong with changing your opinion but admit when you were wrong don't pretend you were on the right side of history all along when you weren't.

 

P.S when I say "you" I don't mean you at all so please don't take it the wrong way. 

Fair enough,  i can understand that. i thought you were being more general about DHall himself.

And i totally get the 'you' thing.

 

~Bang

[RG3Hunna]

So let me get this straight. When you criticize a player (this is purely from a "Legit" standpoint, not some of the personal BS that some people spew on here) it means (in your eyes, since these are your own words) that they don't support them? Is only speaking of a players performance in a positive light (even when it isn't true) what you would call supportive?

 

What would it mean to you if people were to criticize someone legitimately, but at the same time, acknowledge that they are capable of playing better, and that they aren't the only ones that are playing poorly (hoping that they turn it around? Does that seem like someone is not showing support to you?

 

 

 

From what I've read so far, some of the people I see saying that have meant it, because I was there when they've made similar comments. I think you are getting confused with legit criticism and unfair criticism. 

See I have no problem with someone having Legit criticism and acknowledging he can play better but it's the "D.Hall sucks" "We need to cut D.Hall" and posts like that which were rampant prior to the D.Hall vs Dez Bryant week 17 game. 

 

For the record i'm happy D.Hall is proving me wrong it's just hilarious the only people who have come out and acknowledged they were wrong about their criticism about D.hall was DC9 and myself (my apologies if I missed any others who have come out and ate their crow about D.hall) 

[pjfootballer]

Thank you, that's what i'm saying $2 - $4 million a year is more than fair for Deangelo halls services. 

They could add some incentives for INTs and TDs to sweeten the pot a bit. 

[theTruthTeller]

One thing that bothers me about our organization over the years is the impatience with younger players.  We NEVER seem to develop any young players.  Amerson, Minnifield and Crawford HAVE to be given a chance.  You can't roll with old players forever.

Amerson is getting a good chance, as one would expect from a second round draft choice.

 

I don't really see why Minnifield and Crawford HAVE to be given a chance.  Crawford is a special teams player.  Maybe he's good enough to come in on certain packages.  Minnifield has been on the practice squad for two years.  I think its very unlikely that the coaches think he's an every down corner.  Having either Minnifield or Crawford take on Hall's role next year doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  Develop first, then replace.

 

I totally agree with you about developing young players, but until the Redskins stop giving away draft choices like candy, they'll be working with less young players than other teams.

 

On the other hand, I can't really think of a young Skins player that went to another team to be a star.  Here's a decent list of players picked from other teams practice squads over the last few years.  Hoomanawanui is the only Skins practice squad player seeing any playing time with his new team, and he would have zero chance of see action here at TE.  So while I agree with you in theory, we really need to get better UDFAs to develop.

[theTruthTeller]

Thank you, that's what i'm saying $2 - $4 million a year is more than fair for Deangelo halls services. 

Here's a list of last year's top CB FAs:

 

Cary Williams (28, no pro bowls) 3y/$17M + $2M incentives ($10.5 guaranteed)

Derek Cox (27, no pro bowls) 4yr/$20M ($10.25 guaranteed)

Sean Smith (26, no pro bowls) 3yr/$16.5M+$1.5M incentives ($7.465 guaranteed)

Aqib Talib (27, no pro bowls) 1yr/$4.975M+$0.5M incentives ($4.575 guaranteed)

Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie (27, 1 pro bowl) 2yr/$10M ($5M guaranteed) 2nd year voidable

Brent Grimes (30, 1 pro bowl) - 1yr/$5.5M,  ($3M guaranteed)

 

The only player that could be seriously mentioned in the same breath as Hall is Talib, and, like Hall, he signed a one year contract.  Hall has played in three pro bowls, the last one in 2010, and will be playing again this year.  He's won't be signing for $2M/year.  Its way out of line with other, less-talented, cornerbacks.

 

[Bang]

Didn't Hall find himself a free agent last year?
I think he had a dead phone.

 

Unemployment is a great motivator.

 

~Bang

[DC9]

Didn't Hall find himself a free agent last year?

I think he had a dead phone.

 

Unemployment is a great motivator.

 

~Bang

 

That and going from $8 mil to $2 and some change...

 

We re-signed four players with that money.

[Prototype]

The notion that Hall resigned after last year because "no one was calling" is completely and utterly false. The Lions offered him more money, which he rejected, to stay here. Look it up.

That argument is now invalid.

And here's someone else of credibility who thinks we should re-sign Hall:

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2013/11/04/darrell-green-redskins-need-to-re-sign-deangelo-hall/

Darrell Green is some sort of idiot and doesn't know what he's talking about, right?

[DogofWar1]

Here's a list of last year's top CB FAs:

 

Cary Williams (28, no pro bowls) 3y/$17M + $2M incentives ($10.5 guaranteed)

Derek Cox (27, no pro bowls) 4yr/$20M ($10.25 guaranteed)

Sean Smith (26, no pro bowls) 3yr/$16.5M+$1.5M incentives ($7.465 guaranteed)

Aqib Talib (27, no pro bowls) 1yr/$4.975M+$0.5M incentives ($4.575 guaranteed)

Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie (27, 1 pro bowl) 2yr/$10M ($5M guaranteed) 2nd year voidable

Brent Grimes (30, 1 pro bowl) - 1yr/$5.5M,  ($3M guaranteed)

 

The only player that could be seriously mentioned in the same breath as Hall is Talib, and, like Hall, he signed a one year contract.  Hall has played in three pro bowls, the last one in 2010, and will be playing again this year.  He's won't be signing for $2M/year.  Its way out of line with other, less-talented, cornerbacks.

 

 

Exactly, and frankly, if we can pull down Hall for 6M/year, that's a steal if his play maintains.  Heck, even if he comes back down a bit, he'd still be worth 6M a year.

 

The problem with his old contract was that he was getting 8+M a year, and had no safety help and was playing on an island every down, usually against the top corner.  It made him look worse than he was.  2012 Hall would be worth 6M, if he even had a moderately ok FS over the top who wouldn't miss coverage.  2013 Hall is worth more than 6M outright, safety or no, probably closer to 8M a year, and that's in a deflated market.

 

If you put 2013 Hall on the pre-2012 FA market, he'd be commanding 9-10M a year.  Look at Carr's contract, he got 10M a year.

 

Basically, for the way he's playing 2-4M won't cut it, 5M probably wouldn't cut it either, we'd need something around 6M a year, which he's definitely shown he's worthy of.  Hall's problems have mainly been a result of poor safety play hanging him out to dry than anything else, and I think he often tried to do too many things at once on plays in previous years, while this year we're letting him just focus on covering his guy, and we're seeing the fruits of that.