Do You Believe In Possession? Exorcism?

[Burgold]

The exorcist was based on reveal events that took place in Mt Ranier, MD. I got to speak and challenge Tom Allen author of Possessed about the only documented exorcism in US history.

Very fun.

What do you think? Do you believe? If not, how do you explain?

http://voiceofrussia.com/us/2013_11_01/Possessed-Exorcist-author-reveals-truth-and-mystery-7634/

[Larry]

Course I believe in possession.

I ain't no commie.

[Mocountyskins]

"If you know anyone with mental illness they just don't wake up one day with it and then go to sleep and another day they wake up and they don't have it."  Must not have done much research on multiple personality disorder. But I doubt that it was even that I find that unlikely.

 

I don't believe in possession I think it was most likely a hoax.

 

I do however believe that people can trick themselves into believing that they are possessed. Maybe the person was very religious and for some reason they had the strongest belief that they were possessed and then someone convinced that person that the exorcism worked.
Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/us/2013_11_01/Possessed-Exorcist-author-reveals-truth-and-mystery-7634/

[grego]

Funny. I just watched "the real story " (think that's what it was called ) the other night about this. It was so interesting, I couldn't go to sleep. Finally ended up dvring the final half hour.

Personally, I really don't know about possession. I'm inclined to believe that what people have called possession over the years is some kind of mental illness.

[Bang]

I think the power of the human mind is something we barely understand.

I do not believe in supernatural beings possessing human beings.. it's more likely that the mind can probably convince itself of anything.

What it can do after it convinces itself is anyone's guess.

 

It's also interesting that many cases of possession and poltergeists center around pubescent kids..  right when the pituitary gland starts going nuts and chemicals get all sloshed around.

 

~Bang

[Burgold]

That's pretty close to what I think, Bang. I don't know though if these episodes are psychiatric or drug induced. I do find it interesting that according to Allen this guy never had another episode and now continues to live a "normal" life in his 70's.

Conversation was fascinating to me. We actually wound up talking for fifteen minutes after we stopped taping.

[twa]

 I'm inclined to believe that what people have called possession over the years is some kind of mental illness.

 

a demon in your head would qualify.

 

not much of a reach once you already know chemicals and electric impulses drive you.....of course what is a demon is a question that must be answered.

 

I'll go with yes for possession,exorcism I would say is possible,but the method is subject to review

[Jumbo]

I can't believe people take what many people choose to believe as believable. Unbelievable!

[Mocountyskins]

I would not go as far to say that all people who think they are possessed have mental illnesses.

[Bang]

a demon in your head would qualify.

 

not much of a reach once you already know chemicals and electric impulses drive you.....of course what is a demon is a question that must be answered.

 

I'll go with yes for possession,exorcism I would say is possible,but the method is subject to review

 

It's interesting in conversations like this where we have two completely divergent sets of beliefs..   but they start to funnel down to a common point.

 

Eventually I think humanity will come to an understanding that we've probably both been saying different things about the same phenomenon.

 

Which one..  well there's the question.

A "demon in your head"  is it self made..  or is it an external force?

 

There's the leap of faith, I suppose.

If a person believes he is possessed, i guess it stands to reason he also believes that he can be exorcised. What play the mind requires to complete the act...  I would guess depends on the individual. I'd say it's also possible that such a depth of conviction could result in physical manifestations.

 

~Bang

[chipwhich]

The exorcist was based on reveal events that took place in Mt Ranier, MD.

 

Funny that his biggest critics find the book a crock because the events didn't take place in Mt. Ranier, MD.  Just a money making book.

http://www.strangemag.com/exorcistpage1.html

 

I am with Bang on this one.

[Jumbo]

 

.....of course what is a demon is a question that must be answered.

 

 

 Some day, after we figure out how to sum one item being added to another and arrive at the total, we may find an answer!

 

Oh wait....apparently the results are in on both. 

[Burgold]

Funny that his biggest critics find the book a crock because the events didn't take place in Mt. Ranier, MD. Just a money making book.

http://www.strangemag.com/exorcistpage1.html

I am with Bang on this one.

I found that interesting too as we spent the lion share of the conversation talking about our shared skepticism.

[chipwhich]

I found that interesting too as we spent the lion share of the conversation talking about our shared skepticism.

 

Reading the article, the folks in Mt. Rainier even tell everyone it's the wrong location.  He must not have dug too deep

[Bang]

The Exorcist IS a great movie, though. Still holds up.

 

And believe it or not.. Exorcist III is a VERY good movie.  (2 was a quick moneymaker to cash in on the success of the first one..  3 is the actual sequel William Peter Blatty wrote.. and it's a good creepy movie. Lots of fun.)

 

~Bang

[Burgold]

I wonder then if there's a different explanation.

Towards the end of my interview with him I began asking about the guy's life today and he said he was reluctant to reveal details because he didn't want to expose him. I wonder if he not only invented a pseudonym but a pseudo city

Then again, he could just be full of it. With a subject like this I wouldn't be entirely surprised.

[chipwhich]

I wonder then if there's a different explanation.

Towards the end of my interview with him I began asking about the guy's life today and he said he was reluctant to reveal details because he didn't want to expose him. I wonder if he not only invented a pseudonym but a pseudo city

Then again, he could just be full of it. With a subject like this I wouldn't be entirely surprised.

 

This seems to have already been run to ground by Exorcist fans, including the guys name and location.  Appears he is dead now, so not sure why the worry of exposing him.  There is plenty of material online to write a book.  Maybe that should be my next venture.

 

http://www.oddthingsiveseen.com/2009/01/house-of-exorcism-boy.html

[LadySkinsFan]

I believe that people can delude themselves into believing they are "possessed".  But I don't believe in possession.

 

Possession is used to explain why some people don't "act right" in accord with their society.  So it's explained that they are possessed by a demon or devil.

[Burgold]

Eh, reading that link doesn't really make me think this guy has definitive proof either.

Still, good topic for discussion and even radio air for a Halloween weekend.

I will say I enjoyed Allen and it didn't seem like he was a huckster, but then again, we're talking exorcisms here.

Edit: Allen says the guy is still alive. Mysteries!

[chipwhich]

Eh, reading that link doesn't really make me think this guy has definitive proof either.

Still, good topic for discussion and even radio air for a Halloween weekend.

I will say I enjoyed Allen and it didn't seem like he was a huckster, but then again, we're talking exorcisms here.

 

Here is the best link of them all.

 

http://www.infobarrel.com/The_Exorcist_Legacy_of_Ronald_Edwin_Hunkeler

 

Sounds like a pretty credible story.

[No Excuses]

About as much as I believe in unicorns and fairies.

[Jumbo]

Funny that his biggest critics find the book a crock because the events didn't take place in Mt. Ranier, MD.  Just a money making book.

http://www.strangemag.com/exorcistpage1.html

 

I am with Bang on this one.

Like the  "neuroscientist" awhile back that had his just silly "death experience" (NDE) dream --or what is properly termed a long con in his case. Of course, this was featured as part of his latest book promotion tour and even some of the smarter Christian believers lined up to give what was a pretty obvious fraud as presented (his pic alone was hysterical---looks like an infomercial "make you rich" guy) the benefit of the doubt.

 

As you know, anything is possible under the lord (and that translates into you can say anything about what God can do and not be wrong) and logically you can't prove they're wrong ever and even if they get bogged down there's all that "mysterious wonder...your simple mind can't conceive..." (but their simple mind can) happy horse**** get-out-jail-free card.

 

Ick. It's just all part of the icky side of a thing that can be enormously positive. Like everything human-created, all this stuff simply reflects us. Our brains have evolved to yield quite a mix of potential physiological responses (thinking/acting) which translates into a quite a mix of product (forms human actions/thinking takes) that also evolves as populations grow, interact, and time keeps marching on.

 

Even major religions of the times evolve (some greatly) in terms of being formed in much more complex and detailed fashion. See how "the simple message of Jesus" has developed forms so involved and complex over the centuries that you can acquire several PhD's as well as whatever clerical degrees in the process of explaining and supporting that message.

 

Compare how much more sophisticated in story the gods of Greece and Rome were compared to what preceded them (same in northern Europe) and yet how primitive they appear when reading the tenets of Christian Apologists or The Who's Quadrilateral (featuring Wesley on electric obo). I'd so like to know what we will "be like" 100,000 years from now.

 

But I digress. 

[twa]

 Some day, after we figure out how to sum one item being added to another and arrive at the total, we may find an answer!

 

Oh wait....apparently the results are in on both. 

 

That's what the witch doctor said as he studied the entrails. 

[Jumbo]

That's what the witch doctor said as he studied the entrails. 

 I'm confident you gave him your complete belief. 

 

And expressed your skepticism of the lab results and the surgeon's recommendations.

[Jumbo]

But that's another point---make sure you go after one view saying something you think is presuming knowledge that doesn't really exist, while standing on believing in all kinds of the stuff (presumed knowledge) you are happy to let pass when it suits you.

 

Different standards when convenient and make it up as you go. More of the typical cards played.

 

But I deliberately went more definite there for that reason--to overstate a bit and suggest that even though we have an immeasurable amount to learn, some things we (some of us) have put to bed---like the earth being flat. At one time, that could get you in trouble with believers.