I have come back to gloat, sorta.

[Gamebreaker]

Originally posted by ChrisFul

Ramsey the better QB this season????

You are delusional.

The only reason Patrick has more yards is because he's played one more game than Quincy has. Ramsey has been awful for 4 weeks in a row now. Quincy has 5 wins in a row. Ramsey? Quincy leads the #4 offense in the NFL. Ramsey captains the #17th. You wanna compare yards? Lets look at passing yards per game, since Ramsey hasn't had a bye week yet. Dallas is 10th in passing per game, 224 yards per. Washington is 13th at 217 per. Carter whips Ramsey in every individual passing stat as well, save for TD/INTs where both are 2 over on TD passes.

Yeah, Ramsey has been the MUCH better QB.

Buddy, what did I say in my post? There is more to football than stats. And what do you do? List more stats. LOL! :doh:

Are you telling me that Quincy can read defenses better than Ramsey? That he could make the kind of throws that Ramsey has made this season? You probably would, but I doubt you've even seen Ramsey play, hence your need to bring up more stats. Just remember that stats can be useful, but they also never tell the whole story.

How about this? If someone asked any GM in this league which QB would they rather have, Carter or Ramsey, which one would they pick? The only characteristic I see Carter having over Ramsey is his mobility, everything else Ramsey has shown to do better in his short career.

The only reason Ramsey has tailed off in the last few weeks, is because his pass protection has continued to get worse and worse. I guess having worse protection automatically makes you the worse quarterback. I've seen 3 'Boyz games this year, and in two of them I watched Quincy make some erratic throws with good protection. There is only one game where I can admit Ramsey has down that, and it was the second half of the Jets game. All the others, he was under intense presssure.

You're trying to tell me Quincy could bring his team back from deficits of 17 and 18 points the way Ramsey did? Who's the delusional one here??

[ChrisFul]

Originally posted by Gamebreaker

Buddy, what did I say in my post? There is more to football than stats. And what do you do? List more stats. LOL! :doh:

Are you telling me that Quincy can read defenses better than Ramsey? That he could make the kind of throws that Ramsey has made this season? You probably would, but I doubt you've even seen Ramsey play, hence your need to bring up more stats. Just remember that stats can be useful, but they also never tell the whole story.

How about this? If someone asked any GM in this league which QB would they rather have, Carter or Ramsey, which one would they pick? The only characteristic I see Carter having over Ramsey is his mobility, everything else Ramsey has shown to do better in his short career.

The only reason Ramsey has tailed off in the last few weeks, is because his pass protection has continued to get worse and worse. I guess having worse protection automatically makes you the worse quarterback. I've seen 3 'Boyz games this year, and in two of them I watched Quincy make some erratic throws with good protection. There is only one game where I can admit Ramsey has down that, and it was the second half of the Jets game. All the others, he was under intense presssure.

You're trying to tell me Quincy could bring his team back from deficits of 17 and 18 points the way Ramsey did? Who's the delusional one here??

Quincy has lead more than one comeback in his time with the Cowboys, course you wouldn't know that as you dont watch our games. You yammer on about how stats don't matter, but wait: oh, they do. Quincy has better stats. Quincy has his team at 5-1. I think there's a direct correlation to that. Better play = better numbers = better record. And that's the bottom line. QC has played much better than Ramsey, hence QC's team is where it is and Ramsey's is where it is. Ramsey hasn't had a good game in 4 weeks. I see him get pounded on and I see him fold up shop, not bring his team back from any defecits. Quincy has come up big time when the game was still on the line several times this season, and he did it last season too even amidst his struggles. That's not something I can say Ramsey has done too often. Hell, even if you go back to Carter's college days, you can see the penchant for comebacks.

----

You're trying to tell me Quincy could bring his team back from deficits of 17 and 18 points the way Ramsey did? Who's the delusional one here??

----

To answer your question.

a) yes

you.

[Angus]

ChrisFul, I am a Cowboys fan, but you have gone too far. Quincy is doing a good job but he has a lot more help than Ramsey does. You are being contradictory, claiming that our team is better than the Redskins but not realizing that the Quarterback's numbers directly reflect the status of the entire team. Ramsey is a good quarterback, and with more experience and better help will excell.

[Henry]

Chris, it seems like you got all mad at Art because he refused to cut Cowboy players some slack last year for the bad coaching. Now, this year you've got the better coaching, so you're going to do the same thing you got all p!ssy at Art for?

I admit it. Carter has suprised me. I didn't think he could ever be even an ok QB, and he's proven me and pretty much everyone outside of Dallas wrong. Good for him. Good for you.

But you don't think Parcells had maybe a little to do with this sudden turnaround? You don't think our terrible pass blocking may have something to do with Ramsey's performance over the past few weeks? Everyone else and his mother thinks so. Just not you.

The funny thing is, that during this three game slide the finger pointing in DC has become pretty intense. Everyone is getting criticised for SOMETHING. Well, everyone except for one player. See if you can guess who that one player, the one guy who's still receiving praise despite playing on a crappy, underachieving team, is.

Last year, when Dallas OL was swiss cheese and Carter was under center. was he still thought of as the undisputed future of the franchise? I didn't think he was. Heck, is he considered that NOW?

[Red&BlueRivalry]

Chrisful,

I'm a Cowboys fan too buddy but if you're going to say that Quincy Carter is a better young quarterback than Patrick Ramsey you're being a little too much of a homer. You can't compare both quarterbacks current years because this is Carter's third season and Ramsey's second AND Carter is getting a sheeit load more protection. Both quarterbacks started almost the same amount of games in their first year and both right now have almost similar second year records but as a Cowboys fan, you of all people should appreciate how much a QB values the offensive line after watching last year's disaster. Ramsey is putting up twice the numbers Quincy did last year with the same offensive line problems. AND he's not nearly as mobile. Ramsey has led his team back this year as much as Quincy did at that point in his career, and maybe even more. I'm glad Quincy Carter is a Cowboy but I can't tell you with absolute certainty that I would draft him above Ramsey if I had a choice and knew their future results as of today. I'm glad Carter is a Cowboy and that Dallas is 5-1 but I'm not loyal to names, I'm loyal to production and talent and Ramsey looks to be the better future quarterback. Carter is doing a great job but if I could somehow change past roster decisions and have my choice at positions, I'd probably rather have Ramsey as the franchise QB. No shame in saying that, just being realistic.

[skinswin'emALL]

Combined record of Cryboys opp: 10-27 (.270) winning %

Combined record of Skins opp: 19-25 (.431) winning %

That said I was still surpised to see the Boys start 5-1. But don't get on that top of that soap box so fast. Last year the Chargers started 6-1 and then went 2-7 to finished 8-8. It's a long season.

[skinswin'emALL]

Originally posted by ChrisFul

Quincy has lead more than one comeback in his time with the Cowboys, course you wouldn't know that as you dont watch our games. You yammer on about how stats don't matter, but wait: oh, they do. Quincy has better stats. Quincy has his team at 5-1. I think there's a direct correlation to that. Better play = better numbers = better record. And that's the bottom line. QC has played much better than Ramsey, hence QC's team is where it is and Ramsey's is where it is. Ramsey hasn't had a good game in 4 weeks. I see him get pounded on and I see him fold up shop, not bring his team back from any defecits. Quincy has come up big time when the game was still on the line several times this season, and he did it last season too even amidst his struggles. That's not something I can say Ramsey has done too often. Hell, even if you go back to Carter's college days, you can see the penchant for comebacks.

----

You're trying to tell me Quincy could bring his team back from deficits of 17 and 18 points the way Ramsey did? Who's the delusional one here??

----

To answer your question.

a) yes

you.

Since you like stats to compare QBs and not consider caoching or pass blocking a factor, here you go:

This is Ramseys 2nd year. Last year was Quincys 2nd year.

After 7 games this year Ramsey is 3-4

After 7 games last year Quincy was 3-4

Ramsey though 7 games:

Cmp 55% Yds 1633 TDs 8 Ints 6 Rating 77.2

Quincy though 7 games:

Cmp 56% Yds 1465 TDs 7 Ints 8 Rating 72.3

Myself, I think Quincy has benifited from a comination of better coaching, better TEAM play, his 3rd yr exp and the winning % of the teams played is .241 (the Skins opp winning % YTD is .461)

If you consider these vadid factors look at the stats after each team started 3-1: (the Skins were playing better as a TEAM)

Ramsey:

Cmp 58% Yds 1036 TDs 5 Ints 2 Rating 88.6

Quincy:

Cmp 56% Yds 1031 TDs 4 Ints 4 Rating 79.9

Since each team started 3-1 the Boys have played the Cards, Eagles and Lions (.263 winning %); the Skins have played the Eagles, Bucs and the Bills (.526 winning %) -- But more importantly the Boys have been better coached and played better TEAM BALL the Skins.

[Ken]

Skins fans....

Do you think the fact that the cowboys have beaten 5 of the 6 teams they have played as opposed 3 of the 7 factors into the winning percentage of the teams we have played?

Thought so.

In addition, the two Beasts of the East, Philly and NY were beaten by us while you were defeated. Don't want to hear about the falcons game either, if we played them this week we would knock the crap out of them. We are a much better team than we were in week one. I can go into the reasons why but I think you can trust me on this one.

In addition, I would like to point out the sheer stupidity of our Coaching and Front office last year with the handling of Carter. Can you skins fans saying Carter was poor last year, honestly say he was givin an honest opporotunity to succeed when he only split practice reps with Hutchinson from training camp until he was benched? I didn't think so. It messed with Carter's mind and frankly, i can't blame him. This is Carter first year where he is being prepared properly and has solid weapons at his disposal. I have been one of Carter's biggest supporters because I knew he was capable of playing like he is this year and then some.

Ramsey is going to be a great QB. I don't doubt that. However, you have to admit he has been given a nurtering environment in which to succeed in his second season, aside from the oline woes. Imagine Ramsey receiving half the reps in practice for no apparent reason and then going out and play. Hmmm.

Hey, it is obvious to everyone I talk to, Giants fans and Eagles fans, etc.... that we have the two best young qbs in the East. It is obvious. I like them both but I am partial to q because I have a lot of time and evergy invested in him.

I personally feel he is going to be a great qb in this league and have felt that way for a long time.

My only concern for Ramsey not getting there is the beating he is taking repeatedly. For some that is a good thing, for others they get worn down from the hits and even start looking like dear in headlights after a while. I hope for you Redskins fans sake that Spurrier starts taking a page out of Parcells' book and leaving some guys in to protect.

[BG]

Originally posted by Ken

I like them both but I am partial to q because I have a lot of time and evergy invested in him.

I personally feel he is going to be a great qb in this league and have felt that way for a long time.

My a*s

I would bet any amount of $ that you were calling for his head and was on the Hutchinson band wagon hard.

Face it. He sucked before, and he's doing ok now that the team as a whole is playing better.

My how easy it is to talk sh*t on a message board.

[SkinsNumberOne]

First, someone said Ramsey has been nurtured this season. What about last season? He did not get the reps last season, and he showed flashes of absolute brilliance (Titans, for example). He definitely also struggles in other outtings, but I wouldn't use "reps" as a good way to say QC is as good/better than Ramsey. And anyone who thinks it's easy to QB under Spurrier... I don't think that's the case. I think Wuerffel was one of the few QBs who spurrier didn't rotate in college, and I think every QB knows that about him (he did it last year, after all). Also, Rex Grossman made comments after Spurrier left, not very public since he didn't want to hurt his chances to get to the NFL and potentially play for the Skins, but made comments about how it was hard to play for Spurrier.

I'm not looking at stats right now, but I'll just assume QC's stats are "better" than Ramsey (not sure by what standard, since I thought the Skins were leading the league in Offense recently, but whatever).

Anyone who has seen some/all Redskins games has seen Ramsey get knocked to the ground DESPITE showing some pretty good quickness and footwork, an area he worked on in the offseason and definitely improved upon. We have also seen him make some great throws, although almost always (it seems) under duress. When not under pressure, which is very rare and happened more often earlier in the season when the Redskins weaknesses appeared to have been less exposed, he makes amazing decisions, including a certain scramble against the Jets, shocking everyone - even his own teammates, to singlehandedly bring the team into FG position and earn the respect of his teammates who may have held some form of doubt in him. Watching him play, I think we all know that he can be great; he's already show us as much.

As for Quincy Carter, I for one do give him his props. He's played well this year, and I never thought he'd make a bad NFL QB. I was happy they chose to use the option last year, and I was happy when they replaced him, because I thought he was definitely their #1, particularly if they didn't use the option. He's played well enough to help them to a 5-1 record so far this season, let's see what happens down the stretch.

Personally, I think Ramsey has proven more if only because he has had to deal with more. If you asked me who had a better shot of being the better QB, that's a hard question. I think they're both going to be good. Right now though, I'm certainly more sure of Ramsey since he's had to put up with a lot of stuff and he's handled things with skill, toughness, and dignity.

[skinswin'emALL]

Originally posted by Ken

Skins fans....

Do you think the fact that the cowboys have beaten 5 of the 6 teams they have played as opposed 3 of the 7 factors into the winning percentage of the teams we have played?

Thought so.

In addition, the two Beasts of the East, Philly and NY were beaten by us while you were defeated. Don't want to hear about the falcons game either, if we played them this week we would knock the crap out of them. We are a much better team than we were in week one. I can go into the reasons why but I think you can trust me on this one.

In addition, I would like to point out the sheer stupidity of our Coaching and Front office last year with the handling of Carter. Can you skins fans saying Carter was poor last year, honestly say he was givin an honest opporotunity to succeed when he only split practice reps with Hutchinson from training camp until he was benched? I didn't think so. It messed with Carter's mind and frankly, i can't blame him. This is Carter first year where he is being prepared properly and has solid weapons at his disposal. I have been one of Carter's biggest supporters because I knew he was capable of playing like he is this year and then some.

Ramsey is going to be a great QB. I don't doubt that. However, you have to admit he has been given a nurtering environment in which to succeed in his second season, aside from the oline woes. Imagine Ramsey receiving half the reps in practice for no apparent reason and then going out and play. Hmmm.

Hey, it is obvious to everyone I talk to, Giants fans and Eagles fans, etc.... that we have the two best young qbs in the East. It is obvious. I like them both but I am partial to q because I have a lot of time and evergy invested in him.

I personally feel he is going to be a great qb in this league and have felt that way for a long time.

My only concern for Ramsey not getting there is the beating he is taking repeatedly. For some that is a good thing, for others they get worn down from the hits and even start looking like dear in headlights after a while. I hope for you Redskins fans sake that Spurrier starts taking a page out of Parcells' book and leaving some guys in to protect.

Even if you give the Lions, Cards, Jets another "win"each to swing it (and vise versa with Skins opp) they still have to many loses (because they are bad teams) to change the % very much. Nuff said.

You make my points about the coaching being better for the Boys than the Skins. I seem to remember Troy A. looking pretty dreadfull when the team and coaching got bad. I don't understand how as you say, a beating is good for some. I don't think it's good for anyone -- If you watch Troy on Fox you'll catch his eyes compulsively rolling upword without warning. (Most likely from the hit Lavar ended his career with)

All things being equal Carter and Ramsey can lead their teams to wins. However things aren't always equal in the NFL. Coahes, player and YES even schedules are a factor (Dick Vermil pointed out that the year the Rams won the SB - the schedule was a big factor)

As for the "like" opponents:

The skins lost to the Gints and eagles by a combined 5 points and could have won either game - 1 went to OT

The Boys beat the Gints and eagles by a combined 5 points and could have lost either game - 1 went OT, also

They both beat the Jets

The Skins beat the Falcons and the Boys lost

The differance IMO is coahing and disapline -- right now the Boys are a better coached team and it shows in the W/L column.

The "un-like" opponents:

Skins: Pats, Bills (& Bucs for now)

Boys: Cards, Lions

The 3-3 Bucs are up next for the Boys.

the NFL season is very long, so don't be like the chargers, dolphins and saints last year and start counting those chickens in October, the real season is in Nov and Dec (although I like the Boys chances with Parcells and that schedule vs Spurrier and the Skins schedule)

[ChrisFul]

Nowhere did I say "QC is the man, Ramsey sucks!" i just pointed out that the "no talent piece of sh*t loser scrub Quincy Carter" is outperforming Patrick Ramsey, Mr. Golden Child Gonna-set-the-NFL-on-Fire-in-Spurriers-offense.

My whole point was that at QB (and at every other position Art's mentioned OVER AND OVER in his windbag "analysis") the talent gulf isn't as wide as skins fans thought.

Yeah, those Skins were leading the league in offense. A month ago. They've dropped to 17th Overall now. Those Cowboys? #4.

[Ken]

Originally posted by IAMBG

My a*s

I would bet any amount of $ that you were calling for his head and was on the Hutchinson band wagon hard.

Face it. He sucked before, and he's doing ok now that the team as a whole is playing better.

My how easy it is to talk sh*t on a message board.

Jackass,

Don't tell me what I thought. Please, because your dead friggin' wrong.

Hutch was the anti-christ to me last year and the move made no sense to anyone with half a clue, unlike yourself.

You would be in the poorhouse right now if you were to bet any amount of money on what "I" thought.

dip****.

[Om]

Hey ... guys. Lose the submoronic name-calling or the thread's going away.

Or maybe not just the thread.

[marsbennett]

Originally posted by SkinsHokie Fan

:rotflmao: :dallasuck

Enjoy it enjoy it. Still got 10 games left to play. Plenty of time in this season. If anyone recalls the Titans were 2-4 this time last year

and Ramsey is looking sooo much like Steve McNair....you guys gotta be a shoe-in to win the division.

[marsbennett]

Originally posted by SnydertheHun

Comments like this have a way of coming back to haunt you. It would have made more sense to gloat after you beat us. Now, you've cursed them.

Well now, it is hard to argue with that.

See you guys in a couple.

[gaterskins]

Kool, just give opinions without the name calling. We all don't agree with everything we discuess thats what makes it interesting and fun.

[marsbennett]

Originally posted by skinswin'emALL

Since you like stats to compare QBs and not consider caoching or pass blocking a factor, here you go:

This is Ramseys 2nd year. Last year was Quincys 2nd year.

After 7 games this year Ramsey is 3-4

After 7 games last year Quincy was 3-4

Ramsey though 7 games:

Cmp 55% Yds 1633 TDs 8 Ints 6 Rating 77.2

Quincy though 7 games:

Cmp 56% Yds 1465 TDs 7 Ints 8 Rating 72.3

Myself, I think Quincy has benifited from a comination of better coaching, better TEAM play, his 3rd yr exp and the winning % of the teams played is .241 (the Skins opp winning % YTD is .461)

If you consider these vadid factors look at the stats after each team started 3-1: (the Skins were playing better as a TEAM)

Ramsey:

Cmp 58% Yds 1036 TDs 5 Ints 2 Rating 88.6

Quincy:

Cmp 56% Yds 1031 TDs 4 Ints 4 Rating 79.9

Since each team started 3-1 the Boys have played the Cards, Eagles and Lions (.263 winning %); the Skins have played the Eagles, Bucs and the Bills (.526 winning %) -- But more importantly the Boys have been better coached and played better TEAM BALL the Skins.

I think stat comparisons are almost useless. Figures don't lie, but Liars do figure.

Bottom line, Ramsey was great at Tulane and he still would be if he had a coach that knew how to get his QB protected in the NFL.

[skinswin'emALL]

Originally posted by marsbennett

I think stat comparisons are almost useless. Figures don't lie, but Liars do figure.

Bottom line, Ramsey was great at Tulane and he still would be if he had a coach that knew how to get his QB protected in the NFL.

It was a Boys fan who was saying stats were everything so I simply pointed out that a QBs stats go as the TEAM and coaching go. When the TEAMs and coaches were "equal" the QBs stats were "equal"

My point is after both teams started 3-1, the play of teams and the coaches were on par. When the play of the team and the coaches went south so do the QBs stats. QBs sometimes get to much credit when things go well and to much blame went they don't, period.

Is it too much to accept that the boys have a better NFL coach and therefore a better TEAM and thats why there's been "better play" by Carter the past 2 weeks?

I said last year the boys have talent all over the field, they just didn't have a field general to lead them -- this year they do -- Parcells, not Carter is the difference, period.

Of coarse playing the Cards and Lions vs the Bucs and Bills doesn't hurt either, huh?