All-22: Breaking Down Alfred Morris Vs The Dallas Cowboys

[TheGreek1973]

The bottom line is if RGIII starts hitting some WRs down field then our running game will get much better.  Can you guys see how many passes RGIII overthrows? I mean you don't have to be a HOF football coach to see our passing game is suffering because of his inability to consistently hit receivers in stride and stretch the field.  Everything starts with RGIII.  if he is not producing the entire offense is anemic.

[FuriousD]

The bottom line is if RGIII starts hitting some WRs down field then our running game will get much better.  Can you guys see how many passes RGIII overthrows? I mean you don't have to be a HOF football coach to see our passing game is suffering because of his inability to consistently hit receivers in stride and stretch the field.  Everything starts with RGIII.  if he is not producing the entire offense is anemic.

Yup.

 

We have no deep passing game at all, the intermediate game struggles and the short game only invites defenses to tighten up.  But what's wrong with Alfred?!  Oye ve...

[Lavarleap56]

The bottom line is if RGIII starts hitting some WRs down field then our running game will get much better.  Can you guys see how many passes RGIII overthrows? I mean you don't have to be a HOF football coach to see our passing game is suffering because of his inability to consistently hit receivers in stride and stretch the field.  Everything starts with RGIII.  if he is not producing the entire offense is anemic.

 

...This thread was about Morris as a player. People can't wait to turn every topic in to a blame RG3 thread even though they do not know what they are talking about... 

Yup.

 

We have no deep passing game at all, the intermediate game struggles and the short game only invites defenses to tighten up.  But what's wrong with Alfred?!  Oye ve...

 

Who said anything was wrong with Alfred? No deep passing game..Why's that? could it possibly be crappy WR's other than Garcon and Moss in the slot? Could it be crappy pass pro, I counted 6 out 8 straight plays Steiger almost got RG3 killed to close out the first half.. Could issues be because the offense is all the sudden boring and predictable and not taking advantage of the personnel they do have? A lot of issues with this team. 

[stp240]

Pretty much agree with you 100% on this. 

 

Said this last week.

 

Definitely yards left of the field.  Helu has earned more carries. (and Darrel Young, my goodness)

 

Fans will point to stats but you can clearly see that the run game needs to improve.  Helu is a more dynamic/explosive player.

 

 

 

Just thinking about the stretch zone run as it's supposed to work,  defenses may have gotten wise about the cutback runs.  Without the threat to run outside, cutback lanes will never develop.  Sean Lee played him perfectly, played inside of Morris, took away the cutback because he knew Morris doesn't have the speed to beat him outside.

 

 

 

Edit: Just rewatched the game.  Morris ran well for the most part, Line got OWNED, plus Sean Lee is a BEAST.

[Destino]

Somewhat misleading but true.. Everyone likes Alf, that's not the question. But you're in denial if you think he isn't leaving yards on the field.

 

The same could be said for 90%, if not 100%, of NFL running backs.  The bottom line for me is that he's been productive and while stats can be misleading they even out.  Peterson for instance ran for 93 yards against the lions on 18 carries.  His first carry was for 78 yards, the rest of his night was 17 carries for 15 yards.  That's the life of an NFL running back.  Sometimes it's a lot of 5 yard runs and sometimes it's a big run with a bunch of small ones.  

[Destino]

Said this last week.

 

Definitely yards left of the field.  Helu has earned more carries. (and Darrel Young, my goodness)

 

Fans will point to stats but you can clearly see that the run game needs to improve.  Helu is a more dynamic/explosive player.

 

 

When it comes to running the ball Helu is faster than Morris.  I'm sure the ghost of Al Davis is impressed.  He has not produced bigger plays, better results, or even managed to win the starting job and keep it.  

 

Helu's longest run of his career is 28 yards.  Morris, as slow and plodding as he may be, has produced runs longer than that three times this season alone.  Helu's total number of TDs as a redskins, rushing and receiving, is four.  FOUR!  As much talk as the guy gets for being an explosive homerun threat you'd think that number would be higher.  Ryan Torrain had six in 2010 alone.  

 

His speed is as meaningful as a combine 40 time.  All potential until the other skills, like vision and strength, are there and good enough to translate that speed into production.  Production is everything.     

 

Now I will agree that he's a better receiver.  

[Major Harris]

You would loose your money.. Kory was suppose to peel and get Lee but he was stuck on the DT. Trent was good.

Well on your site you say that the blocking scheme left lee unblocked......like I said, hard to read without pre snap alignment, but I am not sure i agree with you.

I think if you are right, asking lich to peel off to inside is a lot easier than asking him to peel and get to lee.

[Leonard Washington]

It looks like the skins have a good scheme. 

[Aireskoi]

I think it's a big problem when our former FB is bigger than our current guard.

 

I'm not blaming Corey, and I am a fan of the Shanahan Scheme, but athletic doesn't have to mean smaller than a TE or FB.

 

I would love to see #78 as a TE or FB in situations, but the guy isn't big enough for 16 weeks of pounding and simply doesn't have the mass to be a G in today's game.

 

I Love the write ups with the pics, I can't get enough.

 

 

[Aireskoi]

Somewhat misleading but true.. Everyone likes Alf, that's not the question. But you're in denial if you think he isn't leaving yards on the field.

I was hoping to see them mix in some more speed and early in games with Helu and Thompson, then pound with Morris in situations, and to close out games and hurt people. 

 

I haven't seen that, and I also haven't seen nearly enough passes to Helu.  I don't understand when I see Andy Reid killing people with that for so many years.  They can't cover everyone and Helu has proven he can play that game.

[Lavarleap56]

The same could be said for 90%, if not 100%, of NFL running backs.  The bottom line for me is that he's been productive and while stats can be misleading they even out.  Peterson for instance ran for 93 yards against the lions on 18 carries.  His first carry was for 78 yards, the rest of his night was 17 carries for 15 yards.  That's the life of an NFL running back.  Sometimes it's a lot of 5 yard runs and sometimes it's a big run with a bunch of small ones.

This isn't a stats argument.. it's just an eyeball test. Alf is a damn good player and had a great year in 2012.But I think it's fair to ask how would've Helu JR played in that system full time while healthy. There is no denying Alf is a talented player, but there's probably 7-8 backs in the league I'd take over him for this offense.

Well on your site you say that the blocking scheme left lee unblocked......like I said, hard to read without pre snap alignment, but I am not sure i agree with you.

I think if you are right, asking lich to peel off to inside is a lot easier than asking him to peel and get to lee.

Well he was unblocked, and I wasn't able to ask Trent about it till last night.

[Major Harris]

well if that's the scheme to me it's a flaw no way lich is pulling that off

[Lavarleap56]

well if that's the scheme to me it's a flaw no way lich is pulling that off

He's done it a lot.. DT was too powerfull for him to move. The ILB's were playing the read with patience and let you t come to them vs getting over aggressive & over committing. Combination of the two caused so issues for the offense.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

He's done it a lot.. DT was too powerfull for him to move. The ILB's were playing the read with patience and let you t come to them vs getting over aggressive & over committing. Combination of the two caused so issues for the offense.

 

I just want to be clear here: you're saying his job was to engage the tackle and then pull and get the opposite ILB? Wow...that's a lot for a center.

 

I get what Kyle is trying to do, but when I look at this, I see a lot of plays where an average or below average blocker is being asked to do things that an All Pro blocker would have a difficult time doing - unless the defender just runs themselves into a block.

 

I'm wondering if last year with how we moved from sideline to sideline if we essentially were casuing defenses to block themselves. I mean, your argument is that the Cowboys LBs were patient and that patience killed our running game. I don't know if you should rely heavily on plays that require the defense to screw up.

 

(I still think that last season, these plays are not being blown up from the backside because that backside defender is either following RGIII on a fake or is trying to tackle RGIII one on one in the open field).

[maskedsuperstar]

I thought it to myself during the game and I'll say the same thing now having seen you break it down. This struggle in the running game had NOTHING to do with "lineman X is too Y" (slow, bad, small, etc).

 

I really feel that our struggles running the ball in this game were simply one thing, and I hate to admit it. This kid Lee is an absolute stud who may be the best MLB in the game before the end of the year. The guy knows our scheme because we play so often, he is really, really fast, he sheds blocks incredibly well, and he can wrap up and tackle, even on a bigger guy like Morris. 

 

Asking a guy like Chester to reach him at the second level is a double edged sword. If you pull it off, great. If he isn't quite that fast, well ****. On RG3's draw in the end zone, we had the scheme all manned up. Young even had great position on him, but the guy is a football player. He got down, made it a hard block for Young, made himself small, and knifed around and through the block to bring down RG3 short. Disappointing, but no shame in it. Other teams have good players sometimes. 

If it wasn't for Sean Lee's play, RG3 scores. It would have been tied up 7-7.

It looks like the skins have a good scheme. 

The scheme works but they must execute it.

[Koolblue13]

Sean Lee won a lot of that game himself and our bluechippers had no answer.

[RandyHolt]

Execution.... other teams get paid to execute as well.

 

Have teams not spent the off season looking to stop the read option, teams with running QBs, and well, us?  As the top rushing team last year, if any team was going to used as a base team to start evaluating on how to stop, why not choose us?

 

Kyle had to evolve and it seems he did not. He didn't even add hurry up. That was the perfect curve ball to throw to crush teams that had planned for the RO.  I had high hopes how he would diagram plays to kill the overplay of the RO. But then I heard he did not even talk about defending it with Haslet. I was miffed.

 

Only in week 4 our O embarrassed to start yet another game, did we go to it. Briefly. And then it came out, that there is a very finite amount of plays (formations) that we can run from it. We still haven't run 4 wide, nor 5 wide. The box is packed with would be blitzers, play after play.

 

What exactly has Kyle done to prepare for how defenses would be defending us differently?

 

We all knew DCs spent last off season working on just that, yet there we are in those same formations showing basically nothing new.

[darrelgreenie]

........Kyle had to evolve and it seems he did not. He didn't even add hurry up. That was the perfect curve ball to throw to crush teams that had planned for the RO.  I had high hopes how he would diagram plays to kill the overplay of the RO. But then I heard he did not even talk about defending it with Haslet. I was miffed...............................................What exactly has Kyle done to prepare for how defenses would be defending us differently?

 

We all knew DCs spent last off season working on just that, yet there we are in those same formations showing basically nothing new.

To make matters worse we're not even running our previous 'base' read-option plays honestly. Either through coaching or through Griff's on choices Griff is not taking the read-option yards that are available. And defenses are focusing on Griffin and daring him to run. And we have NO viable answer. Whenever we show a pistol read-option look (with several people in the backfield) it invites defenses to load the box. We have no answer BUT keep using it.

[Lavarleap56]

I just want to be clear here: you're saying his job was to engage the tackle and then pull and get the opposite ILB? Wow...that's a lot for a center.

 

I get what Kyle is trying to do, but when I look at this, I see a lot of plays where an average or below average blocker is being asked to do things that an All Pro blocker would have a difficult time doing - unless the defender just runs themselves into a block.

 

I'm wondering if last year with how we moved from sideline to sideline if we essentially were casuing defenses to block themselves. I mean, your argument is that the Cowboys LBs were patient and that patience killed our running game. I don't know if you should rely heavily on plays that require the defense to screw up.

 

(I still think that last season, these plays are not being blown up from the backside because that backside defender is either following RGIII on a fake or is trying to tackle RGIII one on one in the open field).

 

 

Um my argument is not that the LB patience "Killed" the running game, don't believe I said anything like that. I said when we were in zone read looks the ILB's played with patience and let the play come to them, which is a good way to deal with the read if everyone is playing their assignments. I understand why you think that but that's not the case. 

Sean Lee won a lot of that game himself and our bluechippers had no answer.

 

Not entirely true.. Lee was a monster until Kyle adjusted some schemes up front. Lee also spent most of the time spying Robert after he ripped off a few runs. 

[Lavarleap56]

To make matters worse we're not even running our previous 'base' read-option plays honestly. Either through coaching or through Griff's on choices Griff is not taking the read-option yards that are available. And defenses are focusing on Griffin and daring him to run. And we have NO viable answer. Whenever we show a pistol read-option look (with several people in the backfield) it invites defenses to load the box. We have no answer BUT keep using it.

 

More Zone Read looks that are really called runs to Alf than last year.. Will see Robert pulling more as the season rolls along. I know they added to the offense in the off-season but for haven't used a majority of it. Have people in Redskins park telling me that Kyle and Mike aren't on the same page offensively, Kyle want's to expand but Mike is pulling the reins.

 

Personnel is just a big of an issue as scheme at this point tho..

[skinny21]

Execution.... other teams get paid to execute as well.

Have teams not spent the off season looking to stop the read option, teams with running QBs, and well, us? As the top rushing team last year, if any team was going to used as a base team to start evaluating on how to stop, why not choose us?

Kyle had to evolve and it seems he did not. He didn't even add hurry up. That was the perfect curve ball to throw to crush teams that had planned for the RO. I had high hopes how he would diagram plays to kill the overplay of the RO. But then I heard he did not even talk about defending it with Haslet. I was miffed.

Only in week 4 our O embarrassed to start yet another game, did we go to it. Briefly. And then it came out, that there is a very finite amount of plays (formations) that we can run from it. We still haven't run 4 wide, nor 5 wide. The box is packed with would be blitzers, play after play.

What exactly has Kyle done to prepare for how defenses would be defending us differently?

We all knew DCs spent last off season working on just that, yet there we are in those same formations showing basically nothing new.

My best guess? There was only so much Kyle could add to the play book without his QB. Kyle is a smart guy, so I have trouble believing he thought "we're going to add a hurry up element, but only a few plays so teams will be able to defend it easily". Same with the two minute offense. Hence not running it much even when it could help. It is maddening, but you (as an OC) can only do as much as your QB can do.

I may be way off base with those thoughts, but if I try to come up with a logical reason as to the 'why's', that's what I come up with.

All of that (and much more) is why I'd like to see the Redskins run their practices more like Chip Kelly does it. Get a bunch more reps in to improve execution, get more reps to the guys that need it (rooks, etc), and perhaps let you add more plays in the offseason (and even during the week).

[darrelgreenie]

More Zone Read looks that are really called runs to Alf than last year.. Will see Robert pulling more as the season rolls along. I know they added to the offense in the off-season but for haven't used a majority of it. Have people in Redskins park telling me that Kyle and Mike aren't on the same page offensively, Kyle want's to expand but Mike is pulling the reins.

 

Personnel is just a big of an issue as scheme at this point tho..

Those are the plays I refer to as quasi zone read. But, if I can see it there is no doubt defenses can see it and they aren't gonna honestly defend something they see on film that you aren't willing to call. And if you're not willing to call a true 'read' option then scrap it there are other concepts that work.

 

From my vantage point as a fan i take the 'pictures or it didn't happen' approach. They could have designed the greatest offense in the world but until they put on the field it doesn't matter.

 

You know how I feel about the third party info, I'm sure the coaches will have disagreements. I'm sure it happens on every team from time to time. If its something beyond the normal competitive hubris then I shudder for the rest of the season. But, based on what you're saying and the question is (K) wanting to expand vs (M) wanting to pull in the reigns. I'm with the layer. I see the current offense in fits and starts. Its jumbled, confused, inconsistent and sputtering. I wouldn't want to expand either. There are concepts and plays from the current offense that work. Execute those at a high level first. Fewer penalties. Get in and out of the huddle. Make the plays that are there every time. If you can't execute simple then don't even bother with the complex.

 

I agree that personnel is an issue but imho blaming the current woes on offense on personnel is blame shifting.

I think there is enough talent to produce a far more productive offense then what they've put out there this season.

-----------------------------

.....Imho you could take our current team current peronnel and run the Texans/Mike's Denver WCO from undercenter or pistol keeping the tradtional formations and personnel groupings that schemes and have an offense far more productive then what we've seen.

[NoCalMike]

This breakdown helped support my thoughts that Morris is a good fit for this scheme, but if the day ever came that we stumbled into a Morris + speed, Morris would probably be immediately turned into the change-up back, or possibly traded.

 

Morris's biggest intangible is that he often gets 2-3 more yards after contact, however the trade off with that is, he often is exposed to be not quick enough to turn some of these wide open holes into homeruns and instead gets the pedestrian 4-5 yard gain.

 

Go look at Portis in his first two years in this same scheme.  Had the same vision and cut back ability as Morris, but with breakaway speed.  Portis didn't break tackles like Morris does, but this scheme is designed so that essentially you will have a wide open cut back lane to burst through and take the ball to the house.

 

Morris, I don't want to say he is slow, because once he gets going he can still out run defenders, as shown on his 45 yd TD run, however he doesn't have that initial burst that the elite RBs do, where if a hole presents itself, he is through it before the defenders have any chance to close.

 

I like Morris, I really do, and for the time being he is the best RB on the roster, but I think to really make this running game go, it takes a RB with elite breakaway speed, and then you will see huge TD runs like you did with Portis in this system. It's weird to talk about production when Morris did get 1600 as a rookie, but then again, RGIII's mobility and the focus on him probably helped.

[Lavarleap56]

Those are the plays I refer to as quasi zone read. But, if I can see it there is no doubt defenses can see it and they aren't gonna honestly defend something they see on film that you aren't willing to call. And if you're not willing to call a true 'read' option then scrap it there are other concepts that work.

 

From my vantage point as a fan i take the 'pictures or it didn't happen' approach. They could have designed the greatest offense in the world but until they put on the field it doesn't matter.

 

You know how I feel about the third party info, I'm sure the coaches will have disagreements. I'm sure it happens on every team from time to time. If its something beyond the normal competitive hubris then I shudder for the rest of the season. But, based on what you're saying and the question is (K) wanting to expand vs (M) wanting to pull in the reigns. I'm with the layer. I see the current offense in fits and starts. Its jumbled, confused, inconsistent and sputtering. I wouldn't want to expand either. There are concepts and plays from the current offense that work. Execute those at a high level first. Fewer penalties. Get in and out of the huddle. Make the plays that are there every time. If you can't execute simple then don't even bother with the complex.

 

I agree that personnel is an issue but imho blaming the current woes on offense on personnel is blame shifting.

I think there is enough talent to produce a far more productive offense then what they've put out there this season.

-----------------------------

.....Imho you could take our current team current peronnel and run the Texans/Mike's Denver WCO from undercenter or pistol keeping the tradtional formations and personnel groupings that schemes and have an offense far more productive then what we've seen.

 

I agree, not siding with any coach but they are at odds over some things. I can't speak to how bad it is or isn't cause I'm not in the room with them. People who are in the room with them are concerned tho, but that could be normal. 

 

I agree and think they have the personnel to run both. Don't have ideal personnel across the board but good enough. My main issue is that the Read Offense is being forced more than I like it to be. Dallas LB's were jumping to the LOS more against the traditional O than the read option pa.. It's almost like teams spend more time planning to defend our read scheme vs the traditional sets at this point. 

This breakdown helped support my thoughts that Morris is a good fit for this scheme, but if the day ever came that we stumbled into a Morris + speed, Morris would probably be immediately turned into the change-up back, or possibly traded.

 

Morris's biggest intangible is that he often gets 2-3 more yards after contact, however the trade off with that is, he often is exposed to be not quick enough to turn some of these wide open holes into homeruns and instead gets the pedestrian 4-5 yard gain.

 

Go look at Portis in his first two years in this same scheme.  Had the same vision and cut back ability as Morris, but with breakaway speed.  Portis didn't break tackles like Morris does, but this scheme is designed so that essentially you will have a wide open cut back lane to burst through and take the ball to the house.

 

Morris, I don't want to say he is slow, because once he gets going he can still out run defenders, as shown on his 45 yd TD run, however he doesn't have that initial burst that the elite RBs do, where if a hole presents itself, he is through it before the defenders have any chance to close.

 

I like Morris, I really do, and for the time being he is the best RB on the roster, but I think to really make this running game go, it takes a RB with elite breakaway speed, and then you will see huge TD runs like you did with Portis in this system. It's weird to talk about production when Morris did get 1600 as a rookie, but then again, RGIII's mobility and the focus on him probably helped.

 

 

Agree, I said this last year and I'll say it again.. Morris probably won't be a Redskin once his contract is up. Love the kid but it's hard to pay him big money. A Morris with speed was Christine Michael in this draft..Loved him in the pre-draft process but knew we didn't have a shot at him.

[darrelgreenie]

I hope for all our sakes that whatever is going on isn't anything crazy because we're all lost.

Because the product on the field right now isn't up to Mike Shanahan standards.