NIKKI8 Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 The seven game win streak at the end of last season made me forget about a lot of problems this team had and in my opinion the main reason they won those seven games in a row was because they had a rookie QB & RB that were playing out of there minds. I have just never been impressed with the assistant coaches on Shanahan's staff. First of all as bad as Haslett is the poor guy didn't even get to hire the people to work under him. Burney, Slowik & Morris were all hired for him. I though Morris was a great hire at the time but I haven't seen the players improve at all under him. The linebackers are getting by on natural talent and not by Slowik's hard work. Burney hasn't taken any young unsung player and made a competent NFL starter out of them except for maybe Chris Baker but he isn't a starter on 80% of any of the other teams in the NFL. We have all wanted rid of Danny Smith for years but, and I know it has only been 4 games, the special teams has gone backwards under Keith Burns. On offense the only person I have any faith in is Bobby Turner the RB coach who does not get near enough credit for Shanahan being able to churn out running backs, I think the credit should go to Turner. The OL has been horrible since he took over so I can't really think of anything good to say about Chris Foerster, I am hoping Hurt can come back healthy soon and take over for Chester and Compton takes Polumbus's job but they don't seem to be getting any better since they got here as well as Leribus & Gettis. They go through a different WR coach every year and never develop any young receivers. The TE and QB coach are Kyle's buddies and what else they do I have no idea. I know the players need to execute better and tackle better but I also think these guys need to start coaching better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 You don't seem to be factoring in that the uncapped year severely limited the free agent market Shanny's first year and the cap BS from Mara limited our free agent acquisitions the 2nd and 3rd years. We have also lost a couple coaches because they went on to other teams for larger responsibilities. Look what Morris has had to work with. But, to be fair, Amerson is starting to look good and D Hall has gotten better with tackling under Morris. Our LBers have been a good unit. Fletcher has his age showing this year, but other than that Kerrigan has been great, Riley has developed well, and Orakpo is starting to come back to form from injury. Heck even Keenan Robinson was showing potential before his injury. Rob Jackson has emerged, and Lorenzo did great for us as well and earned a big pay day with the Cards. DL Cofield is starting to stand out but is a 3-4, not exactly a glamour position for DL in most cases. Let's see what Jarvis Jenkins does though. I'm not happy with Haslett as D coord. because of play calls, but there have definitely been spots on D that haven;t improved simply because the talent acquired wasn't an improvement because we were cap strung, namely safety. Is it even a common thing that a DC hires position coaches, or is that an assumption you are making? I'm genuinely asking because I don't know. OL Chester has become decent, Monty is a good C. Licht is ok but could be replaced, RT need to be replaced, but that is the same issue of us not being able to due to cap problems. The OL isn't as bad as people are trying to make them out to be right now. Receiver does need to get better, I agree there. But again it is really hard to pass complete judgement given that many of the position coaches have had sub par talent to work with because the team has had to scrape the bottom of the free agent barrel. Furthermore, if you are going to pose such a question you need to prove that Shanahan has a history of what you claim. His offenses are typically great, D not so much. If a super star DC becomes available I imagine/really really really hope we make a run at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddub52 Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Spanos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaLazarou Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Shanny sure is a lot more patient these days with his D coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SittingBull Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Our defense will always be horrible until Shanahan lets the coordinator choose his own staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayAction Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 A really good defensive mind is going to want to pick his own staff. After all, he'd want schemes, techniques etc. taught his way (just as Shanahan wants everything done his way). Shanny isn't going to be able to attract the top defensive minds because they aren't going to be given the tools needed to succeed. The only DC's that Shanahan will be able to attract are those that are willing to do things the Shanahan way and are willing to work with defensive coaches that Shanahan selects. I think the best we can hope for is the average defensive coordinator - - still good enough to win with though if the offense is top notch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Do we know for certain the the HC picked Slowik and Morris for Haslett? (Not sure if Burney was in place before Haslett's hire or after in the Spring of 2010.). I would at the very least presume the DC had a say in who he wanted on his staff. If anyone has some clarification wither way it would be good to read. The less said about Shanahan's hiring of Haslett and his continuance in sticking by him the better. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor 36 Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I'm not sure this fan base would have the patience for a DC switch. If people want to talk about history, the history of Redskins fans screaming bloody murder for a change for this or that, finally getting it, and then not having the patience to let it work and see it through has been well documented on this board. If we brought in a new DC, especially one that would make changes to the position coaches on the team, it would not be an overnight fix as the players start over learning a new scheme and getting acclimated to a new coaching staff on that side of the ball. Three games in, I guarantee you at least a quarter of those calling for Haslett's head would be calling for the new DC's head. IMO, Haslett gets a bad rap on this board anyway. People talk about how bad his scheme is, but the truth is, when you have two, three, sometimes as many as seven guys miss tackle on one play, that is not about the scheme being bad. If you have a guy miss a tackle, that means that the scheme was set up to have at least one person in position to stop the offense. Therefore, it wasn't the scheme that was the issue, but the execution. I know that they have worked on tackling in practices, the basics. Still, players are failing at the basics. That i not on Haslett, though most of this board put it on him. As one poster said before, a lot of our woes come from the crappy FA situations that we have been put in the last several years, and the BS salary cap penalty is definitely taking its toll. Hopefully, this offseason will be the best that Shanny and Co. will have since being here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowland Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Slowik's been with Shanahan for years, so yeah I'd say he was picked by the HC. Do we know for certain the the HC picked Slowik and Morris for Haslett? (Not sure if Burney was in place before Haslett's hire or after in the Spring of 2010.). I would at the very least presume the DC had a say in who he wanted on his staff. If anyone has some clarification wither way it would be good to read. The less said about Shanahan's hiring of Haslett and his continuance in sticking by him the better. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 ..... If you have a guy miss a tackle, that means that the scheme was set up to have at least one person in position to stop the offense. Therefore, it wasn't the scheme that was the issue, but the execution. I know that they have worked on tackling in practices, the basics. Still, players are failing at the basics. That i not on Haslett, though most of this board put it on him...... How do the Coaches get absolved of blame for not teaching the fundamentals out on the practice field? No question it's a joke that our guys should need these things teaching in the first place, But when guys constantly take bad angles and miss/ fail to wrap up on tackles right across the defense, how is that not on the Coaches to darn well make sure the learn the proper way? And if they don't, and it keeps on happening, how is that not part of the Coaches remit. Starting with the main man on defense who oversees it all? Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor 36 Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 How do the Coaches get absolved of blame for not teaching the fundamentals out on the practice field? No question it's a joke that our guys should need these things teaching in the first place, But when guys constantly take bad angles and miss/ fail to wrap up on tackles right across the defense, how is that not on the Coaches to darn well make sure the learn the proper way? And if they don't, and it keeps on happening, how is that not part of the Coaches remit. Starting with the main man on defense who oversees it all? Hail. Shanahan himself said that they have been working on the basics, the tackling, etc. As a coach, you can work/help the players all day everyday, but the onus is on the players to take what was taught and use it in the game situation. I seriously can not imagine that any of our coaches, defensive or offensive, would allow the players to get away with what they do in games on the practice field. I'm sure they have them wrapping up in practice, but in games, the players revert back to going for the big hit. It is amazing how many times I've seen a Redskins defender go shoulder first with their arms down towards their sides, not even trying to grab, hold, and wrap up the offensive player. No way they are not getting reamed for that during practices. No way they are not being drilled about that technique in practices. But, when they get in the live game, they don't follow through. The coaches cannot play the games for the players. Just like a QB can't block and catch for himself, the coaches cannot execute the plays they call for their players. The players are the ones that are responsible for their play when they get on the field, and practice or not, they should know at this level how to tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 To the OP, what assistants would you like to see brought in to replace the current ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinnyles Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Poor tackling is rampant in the league. DB's and safeties are currently way to concerned about being fined or getting hurt that they cannot put their "ALL" into a hit. I also think they have been taught for so long and praised for the "big hit" instead of tackling,to be more recognized coming out of college, that they really never learn truly the art of tackling. It could be just that simple! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Shanahan himself said that they have been working on the basics, the tackling, etc. As a coach, you can work/help the players all day everyday, but the onus is on the players to take what was taught and use it in the game situation. I seriously can not imagine that any of our coaches, defensive or offensive, would allow the players to get away with what they do in games on the practice field. I'm sure they have them wrapping up in practice, but in games, the players revert back to going for the big hit. It is amazing how many times I've seen a Redskins defender go shoulder first with their arms down towards their sides, not even trying to grab, hold, and wrap up the offensive player. No way they are not getting reamed for that during practices. No way they are not being drilled about that technique in practices. But, when they get in the live game, they don't follow through. The coaches cannot play the games for the players. Just like a QB can't block and catch for himself, the coaches cannot execute the plays they call for their players. The players are the ones that are responsible for their play when they get on the field, and practice or not, they should know at this level how to tackle. So where does the buck stop? Using the above, if the players are being taught the right way in practice, but it's not transcending to the actual field of play in a live game, just where does the buck stop? If that repeatedly happens game in, game out, then it falls as much on the Coaches as anyone. One, for not getting across what there supposedly teaching,. And two, for repeatedly playing the same guys not responding in this hypothetical. Or else just what is the point of having Coaches to begin with? I'm all for player responsibility. But let's not absolve the Coaches of their job whilst we're at it. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIKKI8 Posted October 7, 2013 Author Share Posted October 7, 2013 To the OP, what assistants would you like to see brought in to replace the current ones? Well, nothing can be done now until after this season is over but if it was my choice I would start by firing Haslett and try to hire Lou Spanos, Keith Butler or Ron Rivera if he is fired and let them choose their position coaches but I know that the head coach wouldn't give up that authority. As far as who I would want as a special teams coach, WR coach & OL coach I would have to wait and see who is available after the season is over and other teams make changes, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowland Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I don't think a DC switch means a step back. The Browns switched from a 4-3 to 3-4 under Ray Horton and they're a top 10 defense. Rob Ryan's got the Saints defense playing well after they were historically bad the year before. Gregg Williams has turned defenses around quickly as well. Part of it's talent and part of it is these coaches bringing a certain attitude to the defense. I don't know what it is with Haslett, but the players don't seem to respond to him. Ray Horton says all he needs is big guys who can run and little guys who can hit. The Browns Dlinemen fly to the ball and their DBs hit hard. 13 different players on their defense have a sack only 5 games in. It's equal opportunity and they respond to him. In hindsight Horton's the guy Shananah should of hired when he came in if he wanted the Steeler's defense. He's taken LeBeau's defense and made it his own. I'm not sure this fan base would have the patience for a DC switch. If people want to talk about history, the history of Redskins fans screaming bloody murder for a change for this or that, finally getting it, and then not having the patience to let it work and see it through has been well documented on this board. If we brought in a new DC, especially one that would make changes to the position coaches on the team, it would not be an overnight fix as the players start over learning a new scheme and getting acclimated to a new coaching staff on that side of the ball. Three games in, I guarantee you at least a quarter of those calling for Haslett's head would be calling for the new DC's head. IMO, Haslett gets a bad rap on this board anyway. People talk about how bad his scheme is, but the truth is, when you have two, three, sometimes as many as seven guys miss tackle on one play, that is not about the scheme being bad. If you have a guy miss a tackle, that means that the scheme was set up to have at least one person in position to stop the offense. Therefore, it wasn't the scheme that was the issue, but the execution. I know that they have worked on tackling in practices, the basics. Still, players are failing at the basics. That i not on Haslett, though most of this board put it on him. As one poster said before, a lot of our woes come from the crappy FA situations that we have been put in the last several years, and the BS salary cap penalty is definitely taking its toll. Hopefully, this offseason will be the best that Shanny and Co. will have since being here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor 36 Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 So where does the buck stop? Using the above, if the players are being taught the right way in practice, but it's not transcending to the actual field of play in a live game, just where does the buck stop? If that repeatedly happens game in, game out, then it falls as much on the Coaches as anyone. One, for not getting across what there supposedly teaching,. And two, for repeatedly playing the same guys not responding in this hypothetical. Or else just what is the point of having Coaches to begin with? I'm all for player responsibility. But let's not absolve the Coaches of their job whilst we're at it. Hail. Believe me, I don't find the coaches faultless or blameless, but many posters in these parts seem to want to put EVERYTHING on the coaches, especially Haslett, and not anything on the players. I've never been a big Haslett fan, but this is not all his fault. Part of the issue comes back to Mara and that BS Salary Cap penalty. We are hurting, especially in the secondary, with having to play players we can afford and not players we really wanted. Along with the injuries, there aren't many options to swap guys out for when they aren't playing well or following through with what they're doing in practice. I have a feeling that after this season, when we get back our full cap space, the defense is going to be completely made over. Whether it is coaches and players, or mostly just players, I believe it is going to happen. I don't think a DC switch means a step back. The Browns switched from a 4-3 to 3-4 under Ray Horton and they're a top 10 defense. Rob Ryan's got the Saints defense playing well after they were historically bad the year before. Gregg Williams has turned defenses around quickly as well. Part of it's talent and part of it is these coaches bringing a certain attitude to the defense. I don't know what it is with Haslett, but the players don't seem to respond to him. Ray Horton says all he needs is big guys who can run and little guys who can hit. The Browns Dlinemen fly to the ball and their DBs hit hard. 13 different players on their defense have a sack only 5 games in. It's equal opportunity and they respond to him. In hindsight Horton's the guy Shananah should of hired when he came in if he wanted the Steeler's defense. He's taken LeBeau's defense and made it his own. If we did it now, mid-season, as some are calling for, I think it would be a step back.. If we do it during the offseason, it would depend on who we got, his system, and what players we kept and brought in. It's a gamble regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Thanks for the clarification T36 man. And FWIW, in the main we're pretty much on the same page. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Well, nothing can be done now until after this season is over but if it was my choice I would start by firing Haslett and try to hire Lou Spanos, Keith Butler or Ron Rivera if he is fired and let them choose their position coaches but I know that the head coach wouldn't give up that authority. As far as who I would want as a special teams coach, WR coach & OL coach I would have to wait and see who is available after the season is over and other teams make changes, Well I don't disagree there on Defense. I would add though Burns is just in his first year and we just finally, "thanks to Bang" got rid of Smith. I would like to see how he does for the rest of this year and next. Someone posted Thompson as a top five returner here, don't know if it is true. But that said I haven't seen a complete ST's meltdown yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor 36 Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Thanks for the clarification T36 man. And FWIW, in the main we're pretty much on the same page. Hail. No problem! (insert old cheers smilie, clanking beers!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Our Oline isnt that bad and our corners are good, its not the seconday, its just our safeties. How does anyone here know whk is picking the PCs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 In a word: yes. Haslett is clearly overmatched... Agressive blitz schemes that rely on brute strength are nothing innovative... teach them to tackle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Hammer Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 If Gregg Williams is avaliable I would love for him to come back as DC, despite the bounty gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Good ol office politics might play a roles in why he doesn't bring in a DC and let him pick all his own people. People will no doubt take this the wrong way but no matter how different coaching may be, its a job at the end of the day. People are petty and prone to political schemes at their workplaces. Shanahan is grooming his boy to be the head coach and if you brought another respected coach in here and let him pick his entire staff your weighting the room heavily against Kyle in the event Mike retires. Right now all the coaches are Mikes people. Well, most of them anyway, and Haslett is no threat to Kyle. Whatever the reason Mike isn't dumb so it's not like he doesn't understand that defense, which for a long time was the only thing the Redskins could do, has been bad since he got top the job. Something clearly isn't working. Talent in the secondary is a problem but that alone doesn't explain this defense struggling for as long as it has. It would make a lot of sense to grab a better DC and let him pick his staff but something is preventing it. I don't believe we'll see anyone but Haslett next season but I hope I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowhunter Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Pudding is now ready. Many prefer vanilla but this batch is flavored with a good bit of proof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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