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Eagles Vs. Redskins - A Second Look


WarpathHitchhiker

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Hey...some reading material for you guys to ponder for the next time these teams meet.

Too many people are talking about the tempo of the game but not seeing the forest through the trees. Read this to really see what Chip's offense is about....and then imagine a healthy RG3 running it under Chip.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/74191/the-power-of-the-chip-kelly-offense

C'mon man ... 

 

Washington came back because the Philadelphia defense played conservative zone coverage for most of the second half and the offense dumbed things down. 

 

The Eagles DC is quoted saying that they absolutely did not let up in the 2nd half ... they only played softer after they got burned for the first two TD's in the skins comeback. 

 

Besides that major gaffe this is a great piece, but it's hard to take too seriously since the writer screwed up that fact. 

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I think there is a chance that Philly fans will look back at this game as their "Remember Osaka" moment. Not so much in that Kelly will fail but that he will have to modify what he wants to do so much that it will no longer resemble what happened in that first half. I don't think they will approach 53 plays in a half again. Unless they play a team that has 3 turnovers in their first 6 plays like we did. How many times does something like that happen in a season? Two or three maybe?

 

I can't wait to see what Philly's offense looks like if San Diego's offense can manage to be functional in the first half this week. Not go toe to toe with them but at least put them into position to have to drive 70-80 yds per drive instead of the 40 yds per TD drive they had against us. Just string together a few typical NFL 4-5 minute drives. We only had one drive over 2 minutes in the 1st half.

 

People want to point out how much worse it could have been. Citing the missed reads/throws from Vick that could have lead to more points. But what in Vick's career history makes anyone think that he is capable of correcting that? That is what he does, he misses reads and throws every game. He has for his whole career. There is no reason to think, now that he is being asked to do more, that he will have fewer mistakes.

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I thought at some point we were going to talk about I don't know the Redskins......

 

Here's a question:  I see several of us saying that the team adjusted and got stops in the second half.  It certainly seemed that way because the Eagles stopped scoring, but what was the adjustment exactly?  Did we bring another player closer to the LOS?  Start playing different coverage?  Blitz more?  I don't have a lot of football background other than being a fan, so I don't always pick up on some of those changes.

 

I'd feel a lot better about that second half (and about the prospects for the second matchup) if I could pinpoint something the D was doing to get some stops, but it wasn't obvious to me.

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My question is why play Biggers out of position at safety and have Doughty sitting on the bench all game?  No, he's not as fast but his discipline and tackling would have helped out a ton.

I think the team;s answer would be they wanted more speed out there. I thought Biggers got stuck out there because they couldn't sub due to the pace of Iggles offense. But, when they kept him in I thought okay Reed must be hurt or something...but Pugh was active for the game....

Doesn't make much sense to me and clearly I think we can admit that the pairing of Biggers and Rambo to of the secondaries weakest tackler wasn't a wise decision.

 

IF When Meriweather can't go next week vs the Packers who do you want to see at SAF? I'm leaning towards Pugh/Rambo. I only keep Rambo in the line-up because we don't want to crush the kids confidence but if he's shaky early then Doughty comes in. AND I put Gumbs on the active roster.

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I think the team;s answer would be they wanted more speed out there. I thought Biggers got stuck out there because they couldn't sub due to the pace of Iggles offense. But, when they kept him in I thought okay Reed must be hurt or something...but Pugh was active for the game....

Doesn't make much sense to me and clearly I think we can admit that the pairing of Biggers and Rambo to of the secondaries weakest tackler wasn't a wise decision.

 

IF When Meriweather can't go next week vs the Packers who do you want to see at SAF? I'm leaning towards Pugh/Rambo. I only keep Rambo in the line-up because we don't want to crush the kids confidence but if he's shaky early then Doughty comes in. AND I put Gumbs on the active roster.

If Meriweather can't go them I go with Doughty easily (should have been instead of Biggers on Monday).  I would keep Rambo at FS, no reason to move him.

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Right and that is where you question not only Vick's durability but also ability to compete consistently in an offense that is asking him to do more, specifically in the quick decision making department. Something he has never been particularly well at.

 

The rocket he fired off to DeSean Jackson? That was Vick at his finest, that is what he does best, utilizes his arm to find the #1 read open down field, and Jackson is the ideal WR, small speedster that can get over the top of secondaries. Unfortunately, he is another one that has trouble staying on the field, and then often seems to have a lot of down games for someone with so much raw skill.

 

Vick has always been known to miss proper reads, and make some questionable throws, and we saw it once the 'Skins defense started bringing pressure on him (Why Haslet wasn't calling for that from the get-go who the hell knows).  Once the blitz was getting through and putting pressure on him he stopped being effective as a passer for a short period until the defense became tired.

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They played softer coverage certainly...but were still blitzing some

Nfl defenses do not work this way. You can't say to your team: "ok guys we are going to call the same plays but play off coverage instead of playing normal." you can tell your defense to not be AS aggressive, but then why did you guys get a pick on an aggressive play by the corner in the third quarter? You are putting too much stock in the eagles' ability to dictate 4 quarters of football. Your defense simply did not stop being aggressive against our offense. Plain. And. Simple. We made plays in the second half against an eagles team that was not backing off.

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We win the game if Morris does not fumble on the first offensive play of the game.  Sounds crazy, but it's probably true.

Agree 1000%. That ****ed up the whole tone of the game

Chip Kelly - Vick, McCoy, Jackson, (Macklin eventually)

 

Spurrier - Danny Woeful, Jacquez Green.......Trung Candidate?

 

The sheer talent level is nowhere close to the same. Of course, part of that problem was Spurrier's ****iness in thinking he would just use his Gator-boys as if they would translate to the NFL LOL.

Been screaming this one too.

 

Spurrier had ZERO talent offensively outside of Chris Samuels. That team was ****. Pure ****.

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If Meriweather can't go them I go with Doughty easily (should have been instead of Biggers on Monday).  I would keep Rambo at FS, no reason to move him.

There is kinda a reason to move him (poor play) but the cost of removing him (confidence) might not be worth it. But, imo Rambo is on notice to improve ASAP because his current level of play is easily replaceable.

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I expected a shootout(because despite what you guys told me both our defenses suck)

 

I wouldnt have enjoyed this victory as much if I wasnt reading how we were going to get blow out  in that prediction thread  thx for that :)

 

 

hope u guys beat GB so u can question our win even more lol

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I expected a shootout(because despite what you guys told me both our defenses suck)

 

I wouldnt have enjoyed this victory as much if I wasnt reading how we were going to get blow out  in that prediction thread  thx for that :)

 

 

hope u guys beat GB so u can question our win even more lol

 

I think you need a reality check, friend. You're on an opposing teams message board, more importantly, a rival teams message board. If you didn't expect to see posts of all kinds related to how the Skins would beat the Eagles, then you are very naive, just as if I went to an Eagles message board, not expecting to see the typical "RGKnee posts, talking about how he would hopefully get knocked out of the game, and any other dumb posts that fans on message boards come up with in explaining how your team would beat the Skins, I would be naive as well.

 

Your team won. Congrats. If you're here for love, just know that no one here is going to pat you on the back. If a couple people on here predicting a blowout made you feel better about your teams victory, then good for you.

 

Just know that we'll pretty much welcome anybody here, as long as they know football, and don't turn out to be a jackass, but if you start doing stuff like what I quoted, essentially complaining that your team wasn't respected, you're going to have a difficult time here. Nobody cares about how you feel.

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game plan was all wrong. Example:  Philadelphia sent their fastest guy on a 25 yard TD pattern to the endzone. Redskins established that they wanted to run the ball and throw short passes, thus keeping all the Eagles within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage...and so the Skins send their fastest guy out to run a 10 yard pattern which is broken up easily because all the DB's are not backing off more than 10 yards. They targeted Aldrick Robinson exactly ONE time and for a 10 yard down and over pattern. No wonder it didn't work.

 

If the Eagles had sent Jackson out on that same pattern it wouldn't have worked either. There is a reason you send your fastest man out further than 10 yards. Apparently Shanahan doesn't realize that. Look for it to happen again in Green Bay.

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I expected a shootout(because despite what you guys told me both our defenses suck)

I wouldnt have enjoyed this victory as much if I wasnt reading how we were going to get blow out in that prediction thread thx for that :)

hope u guys beat GB so u can question our win even more lol

Amazing how many A-holes from opposing teams with names I've never seen on this board, come in after their team wins, but is never around otherwise.

I never understood this childish mentality of grown men going to another teams message board to say, "nanny, nanny, boo, boo." I have no desire to go to another teams site to talk about their team. Their teams are boring and uninteresting.

Get out of your parents basement, get a job and grow the hell up. My 10 year old great nephew acts more mature after his team wins then some of you in here.

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We win the game if Morris does not fumble on the first offensive play of the game.  Sounds crazy, but it's probably true.

 

No, i don't think so.  Robert's INT's still would have happened, he was making awful decisions. Even if Al did not fumble, a 45 yard rushing day was still in the cards for him.  

 

Remember the game was 12-7 forever ...

 

... Skins D got Eagles to punt THREE consecutive times in the first half (something people don't realize) and their offensive drives ended on punts all three times after they got the ball back. they muster at least 10 points on any of those three drives, different game. 

 

I think this game was lost in the preseason ... 

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I totally agree with you pj - I occasionally go to other teams boards to see what is going on, but rarely post - i think it is bad form after a head to head - and in reality the trolls coming from other teams dissing any Redskin player/Coaching or FO  really has nothing compared to our regular moaning Minnie's.... for who no one is good enough...   to add to that the Grantland article you reminds me exactly why I never read Grantland articles or anything with bleacher report on it  . But sick of talking about the Eagles ..

 

I really don't think there is much to take from this weeks game - It is over . All I can hope is the rest of the team has put it behind them - one thing I noticed about Moris after the strip and missed pitch is he was unusually hesitant hitting the hole when he was running that saw the stretch plays getting strung out for no gains and that prevented the running game from getting going - And then the score kind of took the option to re-establish the game in the second half . I hope this week does not give him a mental hangover .

 

That is something we have to establish this week and with the Shanhans I cannot see that is going to be an issue . It might mean mixing things up a little and there might be a stronger rotation with Helu getting more snaps because his running style adds an additional dimension in terms of speed but one positive I saw from the second half is how much Helu has developed in pass protection which was not a strength of his previously .

 

Also again looking at what we did this week which I would like not to see was the lack of downfield passing shots . Aldrick Robinson is not an over the middle pass catching threat on the short and intermediate routes - despite what everyone says Robinson still is a one trick pony but when that trick works it takes pressure off the line and stretches defenses horizontally ...

 

All said though I think the first half troubles were largely self inflicted . People keep saying we were lucky the Eagles were not up 50 but not being able to go 4 downs without a turnover in the first few possessions kind of hampered us from stamping that run first personality on the game the Shanahans like to establish - and I wonder just how amazing the Eagles offense would be against a defense that at least had been given chance to catch its breath and then some of those missed tackles become actual tackles ..

 

This week is a real challenge, Rodgers and the Pack are very strong offensivly especially playing at home but I think we have it in this team to make it a game .

 

As for the Eagles trolls, enjoy this victory ... it might be one of the few ..

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Re-watched the game last night. I was able to be a little more objective than I was on gameday so here's what I saw:

 

1.) Our Offense put us in absolutely terrible positions on defense in the first 2.5 quarters. In our first 7 offensive plays we had a fumble, a dropped pass, a pick, and a safety. Sav Rocca shanks a kick in the second quarter after our offense stalls for the 6th straight posession. Our first drive in the 3rd quarter ended with a pick. We had 75 yards of offense in the first half.

 

2.) Our second drive in the 3rd quarter was against an Eagles defense that was not letting up. They were blitzing and playing the exact same defense they have been playing all game. We made them pay on that drive and did NOT REWARD OURSELVES WITH POINTS. Kai missed field goal really hurts this team.

 

3.) Our offense finally capitalizes on only its second sustained drive and gets a TD. Again, Eagles are not letting off the gas pedal on defense. They are sticking to their gameplan.

 

4.) Philly offense, although running at a slightly slower pace, is STILL RUNNING THEIR OFFENSE. This is getting lost somewhere...maybe because Eagles posters are coming here saying they slowed down completely and only ran the ball to waste time, I dunno. But they were getting plays off with 19-15 seconds left on the playclock--by no means a slow pace. They were running their zone-read game. They were giving the ball to their starters. They were forced in bad situations by our defense and there is no other way to look at it.

 

5.) Sensing some momentum, we come right out and get ourselves a turnover. At this point, the game changes completely in the 4th. We drive and score and make this a 13 point game with over 12 minutes left to go. The next Eagles Drive is 6 plays with 2 passes. Again, they are not getting off plays at a super-accelerated pace, but they are running their stuff. If not for Vick's 30+ yard scramble we force them in a three-and-out and get even more time back.

 

6.) Our next drive really, really hurts us. We go 50 some yards into their territory and we can get no points. We have a penalty on 4th-10 that makes it almost impossible for us to continue the drive. This drive sucks time off the clock with nothing to show for it.  Had kai made his field goal here OR we do not give up a safety, we can take a crack at a field goal to cut this to a one posession game. 

 

7.) Eagles finally show a huddle. They slow down the pace much more here with about 7 minutes to go in the 4th. They pass on a third down and pick it up. We had their guys covered on this third down and Vick has all day to throw and finds avant standing at the sideline all by himself. We then are forced to use our remaining timeouts. In my mind, this was kind of the end.

 

We score with about a minute left and don't get the onside kick...game over. My biggest takeaway from this is we cannot spot another team 4 turnovers in our own territory and expect to win. We cannot stall on offense for 2.5 quarters and miss crucial field goals and expect to win. We cannot bring back a lot of our big plays with holding penalties and expect to win. The Eagles still ran their stuff on Offense and Defense in the second half, and minus a first posession interception by RG3 and the ensuing McCoy run in the third quarter, we dominated the final two quarters.  I was encouraged watching the second half of the game and look forward to a much better game against the Packers.

This is what hurts (but also is encouraging at the same time).  There were many "if-onlies" in that game (several were definitely unforced errors) and only a couple are needed to turn a loss into a win.  For instance, we gave them 5 points and took away 3 from us which if we hadn't done that, we'd have won 30-28 (maybe 31-28 since we would not have gone for 2 one time).  In 2010 when the Eagles blew us off the field, it did hurt for that night and a couple of days thereafter but soon I moved on and it became just a dull pang because there were no "if-onlies" that would have turned that game into a W (just a closer loss).  Blow outs (unless they come in big games) are actually easier for me to deal with long term than close losses (except maybe for the encouragement thing).

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It's dynamite that on second glance it wasn't as horrific as it seemed live, but we still can't be throwing games away like that.  In division, no less.

 

But I really hope that they make a statement when they play Philly again.   And frankly, I hope that the rest of the league puts the clamps on them.   The slobbing over the Philly offense for what amounted to 2 quarters got to be a little much this week.   They're due for some humble pie.

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Chip Kelly - Vick, McCoy, Jackson, (Macklin eventually)

 

Spurrier - Danny Woeful, Jacquez Green.......Trung Candidate?

 

The sheer talent level is nowhere close to the same. Of course, part of that problem was Spurrier's ****iness in thinking he would just use his Gator-boys as if they would translate to the NFL LOL.

 

it's a pretty stark contrast in offensive personnel.  But Spurrier didn't help himself either, he never seemed all that into the proceedings.  With that kind of "talent", you'd think he'd live at the facility trying to figure out a way to make it work.   

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The 'Skins offense was a complete disaster in the first half, the defense was put in bad spots three times, and asked to defend half the field or less.

 

There was plenty of opportunities to get back in the game.  This wasn't the Monday Night Massacare game where before you could blink it was 35-0.  Not even close to that type of game.

 

It went....

 

7-0

7-3

7-10

7-12

7-19

7-26

Halftime

 

At halftime the 'Skins were still just a TD from being back in the game. That is how bad the offense was in the first half.



it's a pretty stark contrast in offensive personnel.  But Spurrier didn't help himself either, he never seemed all that into the proceedings.  With that kind of "talent", you'd think he'd live at the facility trying to figure out a way to make it work.   

 

Oh yeah definitely, I am not saying talent was the only difference. Spurrier failed for a ton of reasons, most of which were apparent after our 3-1 start crumbled into reality later in the season.  Spurrier was not willing to put in the work.

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Also again looking at what we did this week which I would like not to see was the lack of downfield passing shots . Aldrick Robinson is not an over the middle pass catching threat on the short and intermediate routes - despite what everyone says Robinson still is a one trick pony but when that trick works it takes pressure off the line and stretches defenses horizontally ...

 

That's exactly what I was thinking, particularly when RG3 went to him on 4th down over the middle.  I would've preferred Briscoe or Lewis in that route and situation over Robinson, for no other reason than size and providing a big target.  Obviously, neither were available, I'm just sayin' that type of receiver.  If Robinson ain't running a go route or deep post, he's not giving you a whole lot. 

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Thanks for the review WH.  It's nice to see what I thought I saw confirmed.  

 

Vick looked perfect in the first couple quarters, like he hasn't since the last time he put a ton of points on the Skins, and I figured it would be temporary.  

 

It just felt like, if we hadn't turned the ball over so many times in the first half, we would have been alright.  We gave the defense no time to rest, and we kept giving the Eagles amazing field position (or gave them points with the safety).  Had it not been for the extremely shaky offensive play in the first quarter, I feel like it would have been a much different game.

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The 'Skins offense was a complete disaster in the first half, the defense was put in bad spots three times, and asked to defend half the field or less.

 

There was plenty of opportunities to get back in the game.  This wasn't the Monday Night Massacare game where before you could blink it was 35-0.  Not even close to that type of game.

 

It went....

 

7-0

7-3

7-10

7-12

7-19

7-26

Halftime

 

At halftime the 'Skins were still just a TD from being back in the game. That is how bad the offense was in the first half.

 

 

It was even more gradual than that.

 

I believe it was:

 

7-0

7-3

7-10

7-12

7-12

7-12

7-19

7-26

 

We had a couple possessions before they opened it up to more than a TD lead.

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