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Yahoo: Why Texas Bans The Sale Of Tesla Cars


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the compelling need was in reference to denying a fundamental right, which despite Telsa's whining this ain't. :)

You think that the right for me to sell you something isn't fundamental?

(But that the right to refuse to sell you something, and claim that my religion says so, is?)

And, funny. I seem to remember you supporting passing special rules that exempt some people (the ones who claim religious privilege) from some rules, but not everybody.

Would make more sense for all car companies to sell and service their own products to me.

Actually, I CAN see a valid reason for requiring cars to actually pass through a local business, as opposed to simply being sold through some web page.

One reason is so that local taxes can be collected.

Another is the same reason that states require insurance companies to have assets in the state: So that the state can reach said assets, if the company screws their customers.

Now, in practice, do I think that this law functions to give special government-granted monopolies to the politically connected, or to make car dealers ethical? What do you think?

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They want to sell them online and through their own dealerships.

 

Taxes are collected regardless of where you are from here. I brought 2 cars with me that I had already paid taxes on...now I pay taxes on them yearly. How do I pay so much on a car with over 200k miles ? How is my beater cost almost as much as my new car ? Because they can still get the money to register the car and inspect it. Hell, I pay ten bucks extra for inspection simply because my 3 cars all have tinted windows (all legal).  

Taxes on the trailer and tags. It's a huge money maker.

 

If I buy a car off the internet today (which I have been thinking about recently), I still have to pay those taxes and tags yearly. Not even an option for paying for multiple years.

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You think that the right for me to sell you something isn't fundamental?

(But that the right to refuse to sell you something, and claim that my religion says so, is?)

And, funny. I seem to remember you supporting passing special rules that exempt some people (the ones who claim religious privilege) from some rules, but not everybody.

 

 

But they have the right to sell, subject to the rules

 

somethings are deemed special from our founding,there was no exemption granted,but rather recognition of a existing fundamental right .

 

if Telsa wants to make the case they have a fundamental right to sell cars they are certainly not prevented(like the religious are prevented from making their case)

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Would make more sense for all car companies to sell and service their own products to me.

 

Not necessarily.  I'm not knowledgeable about the industry, but I bet there are plenty of benefits to sticking to manufacture and wholesale, and leaving it to others (or independently operating subsidiaries, at the very least) to handle retail sales and servicing. 

 

Restaurants for example, some chains are all corporate owned and some are mostly independently owned and operated franchises.  Each approach with its pluses and minuses.

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I'll add once again and get ignored again but here goes.  Dealerships are such an easy target, you're either making a giant purchase or spending money on repairs you don't want to have to do. 

 

1. Are you all so sure that eliminating tens of thousands of small businesses (the dealerships) and turning all vehicle sales and service responsibilities over to the handful or two of giant, multinational corporations that make the cars is what's best for consumers?  That's a massive decrease in competition, are we so sure it helps the consumer and keeps costs down?

 

2. What makes people think the manufacturers want the headache of handling the sale and servicing of all their cars? 

 

The bottom line is, without an established dealer network and as something of an upstart it's in Tesla's interest to attempt to skirt the rules and save themselves money.  The dealers will fight them because their businesses are somewhat on the line and the manufacturers will fight them because the don't want the hassle of dealing directly with millions of often rude and unreasonable customers (I swear sometimes cars bring out the worst in people, especially when it comes to needing repairs).

 

 

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DC, I will get back to this one tomorrow.

 

I disagree, but I have to get to sleep.

 

I understand your point and have several reasons why.

 

I do agree about dealing with cars and how people respond to repairs/sales and how many of them treat people however.

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I'll add once again and get ignored again but here goes.  Dealerships are such an easy target, you're either making a giant purchase or spending money on repairs you don't want to have to do. 

 

1. Are you all so sure that eliminating tens of thousands of small businesses (the dealerships) and turning all vehicle sales and service responsibilities over to the handful or two of giant, multinational corporations that make the cars is what's best for consumers?  That's a massive decrease in competition, are we so sure it helps the consumer and keeps costs down?

Those exact same companies have exactly the same competition, right now.

If there were competition between dealers (and they're aren't. They all exist inside carefully maintained monopolies, previsely to prevent them from competing against each other), they would only be competing over how much markup each of them gets to add, on top of what those exact same car companies already make.

 

2. What makes people think the manufacturers want the headache of handling the sale and servicing of all their cars? 

 

 

Which is an excellent argument for why a car company might choose to sell their products through dealerships which they don't own.  It's not an argument for why it should be illegal for a different company to choose not to do so. 

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1. Are you all so sure that eliminating tens of thousands of small businesses (the dealerships) and turning all vehicle sales and service responsibilities over to the handful or two of giant, multinational corporations that make the cars is what's best for consumers?  That's a massive decrease in competition, are we so sure it helps the consumer and keeps costs down?

Competition between the multi-corps will keep the costs down, plus it will allow new car manufacturers to bring their product to the market WITHOUT having to establish a dealer network...that is an INCREASE in competition. Dealers all get their cars from their manufacturer at the same price as other dealers for that brand the only competition you're seeing is amongst dealers and their mark-up of the wholsale cost.

 

2. What makes people think the manufacturers want the headache of handling the sale and servicing of all their cars? 

If they don't then they are free to maintain their dealer network, no one will stop them....until of course market demands force them to adjust their business model. As for the "headache"...I couldn't care less. Don't want the headache? Then stop selling cars or maintain a costly secondary dealer network. The choice is theirs, but to establish laws that say the other manufacturers CAN'T do it because Ford and GM don't want the headache, well that's hardly a compelling reason for government intervention into the free market.

 

The bottom line is, without an established dealer network and as something of an upstart it's in Tesla's interest to attempt to skirt the rules and save themselves money.

Skirt what rules? Are they skirting safety requirements? What rules...OTHER than rules created by the industry to eliminate competition...is Tesla looking to skirt? Seriously, if there are some rules that Tesla is skirting that is allowing them to bring an unsafe product to the market then by all means lets hear it. BUT, if the only rules your concerned about Tesla skirting are the rules designed to keep them from bringing their product to the market cheaper than another company then the choice in my mind is clear.

The dealers will fight them because their businesses are somewhat on the line and the manufacturers will fight them because the don't want the hassle of dealing directly with millions of often rude and unreasonable customers (I swear sometimes cars bring out the worst in people, especially when it comes to needing repairs).

Irrelevant, business models change all the time due to market demands, sic Blockbuster Video. The dealers can fight but if we are arguing for legislation to maintain laws in order to artificially maintain a secondary market then we're not arguing for a free market. Come on guys, I'm not this big of a "free market will save us all" fan boy, but seriously you're arguing for laws that heavily protect certain corporate interests. I couldn't care less about the rudeness of a customer. If Ford doesn't want to deal with rude customers they don't have to, however if Tesla is willing to deal with that rude customer then who the heck is Ford to say they can't?

I do think it is interesting that given the opposition that Nikola Tesla faced that this upstart car manufacturer is facing similar trials.

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It'll be a long time before the dealership dies off.

"Dude video rental stores aren't going anywhere. There are several in every town and we've been using them for decades....hey what's that red box outside of Mcdonalds?"

Now, just imagine if the video rental store industry had a powerful lobbying force, they could have tried to push for legislation that would have protected their companies from Redbox and other vending distributors, and their arguments would have sounded just like what we've heard here. But, a new business model was brought to the market and nearly over-night the video rental industry changed.

Now, there will always be some form of a showroom, because people aren't going to spend tens of thousands of dollars from a menu on a video screen without first test driving. So will we see redboxes for auto sales if Tesla is allowed to sell directly to customers? I doubt it, but we will be able to see different manufacturers bring their cars into the American marketplace (think imports) much more cheaply, thus establishing greater competition.

Look how popular Fiat has become lately in the US, but they had to wait until there was a dealer network to sell through before they could bring their very popular cars to the US market. We could have seen them much earlier if not for industry protective legislation.

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  • 5 months later...

Electric vehicle sales are running out of gas

 

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-electric-vehicle-sales-20140903-story.html

 

Electric car sales are not charging the marketplace. A new study by online automotive research company Edmunds.com suggests the segment may have run out of gas.

Sales of electric drive vehicles are stuck at about 3.6% of all new car sales for 2014, Edmunds senior analyst Jessica Caldwell said.

That's below the 3.7% market share for 2013, and it's not likely to grow any before the end of the year.

And that's during an otherwise robust sales season. Total figures for August were higher than any time in the last decade..

.

The numbers are surprising, Caldwell said, to automobile forecasters. Five years ago, analysts :rolleyes: thought that electric vehicle sales would continue to expand as more manufacturers put more electric vehicles on the road and as the vehicles' cost came down.

 
 
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Texas resistance to Tesla has more to do with doing what it can to hurt the success story of a green energy company that Obama has supported than anything else. Remember Romney calling Tesla "a loser"?

 

 

I think the real issue is the Car dealerships located in Texas are politically more powerful than an out of state manufacturer.  Dealerships have a vested interest in seeing Tesla's sales model fail because if it succeeds it's more efficient, more popular, and a vastly superior way to make purchases for consumers who are exceptionally annoyed and turned off by standard  dealerships sales tactics which are typically misleading, dishonest, and high pressure.   Something most consumers frankly dread.  So these dealerships are trying to legislate Tesla's model out of existence, at least in Texas.    

 

A secondary motivation is the dealers want to own Tesla dealership and they are showing Tesla that they can either give into them or just not do business in Texas.

 

 

It's a demonstration of special interest power at the expense of consumers.

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It's a demonstration of special interest power at the expense of consumers.

 

Stop hating job creators ;)

 

Seriously though, this is a great example of how the anti-regulation crowd on the right doesn't really mind regulations in the name of cornering a market.

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Stop hating job creators ;)

 

Seriously though, this is a great example of how the anti-regulation crowd on the right doesn't really mind regulations in the name of cornering a market.

 

comical that ya'll consider a special interest seeking a special exemption deregulation. 

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comical that ya'll consider a special interest seeking a special exemption deregulation. 

What's comical is how you don't even know why (by your own admission) these regulations exist and it has been plainly demonstrated to you how they act against the free market and yet you still persist in trying to maintain the status quo. Why?

Maybe it's because Texas says it should be so and we all know if Texas does it then it must be right.

Honestly, twa you're the one who is inconsistent on this issue.

I'm guessing that your admission of that fact won't be coming any time soon.

Press on Texan...press on!

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comical that ya'll consider a special interest seeking a special exemption deregulation. 

 

So you are in favor of a law that requires there to be a middleman when buying an automobile. 

 

Any automobile maker should be able to make their own business decisions with respect to how they sell their cars. If it's more advantageous to sell directly to consumers, that should be their right. If it's more advantageous to have franchises or some combination of owning directly and franchising out, that should be their right. It's certainly how the fast food industry operates.

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So you are in favor of a law that requires there to be a middleman when buying an automobile. 

 

Any automobile maker should be able to make their own business decisions with respect to how they sell their cars. If it's more advantageous to sell directly to consumers, that should be their right. If it's more advantageous to have franchises or some combination of owning directly and franchising out, that should be their right. It's certainly how the fast food industry operates.

 

I would be in favor of repealing the law for all(not just a exemption for Telsa), there are certainly better ways to do it.

 

ASF....the law is to protect consumers and provide service to the vehicles locally, cars are not fast food Hersh and need serviced and warranty repairs(which is what local dealerships provide)

 

and since the majority of the states have the same law as Texas I will take ASF's grumbling as just noise

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