Utah Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 Now, I think its only fair to give you guys a chance to address the current problems you guys have done such a fine job of pointing out to the board about the Redskins. Now, in this challenge, I think you should identify the problem, define the parameters of the problem and then finally present a workable solution to the problem. Now, in this challenge it is important to remember that no one gives a flying crap what happened in the 80's or 90's. You have to work with the players we have now and present a feasible solution to our problems. ASF, you need to decide what type of blocking schemes you would incorparate that would solve our problem with pass protections. Make sure you also show us how this blocking scheme would work vs the various defenses we face and the different stunts and blitzes we would incounter. Not too much detail but enough to give us a view of what you know to be an effective way to handle the problem. bulldog, being that you have no problem pointing out every bad move that is made and then pointing out how HOF coaches solved those exact same problems with no side effect. I would like to see what YOU would do and how you would make things work. What would you say to the players, what drills or other methods would you use to help bring about the dicipline that you so covet and yet you seem to think that Spurrier can't attain that level of success.........so show how you would. Bring to us the knowledge that you both have on being able to decipher a problem on the football field and then solve it. Being that I am only a High School football coach, I am not able to completely understand the complexities of the details you guys are going to be talking about so I will let the other board memebers decide if you guys are providing sound solutions or not. There is no backing down from this gentlemen. You have opened up a very touchy subject that is very debatable among the fans here and have presented yourselves as a form of an expert on the subject. Please enlighten those of us who do not posses this awe inspiring level of knowledge about the game of football and present to us the wisdom that has people begging for more from you on a daily basis. Or, are you guys just full of hot air? Your responses will tell us the truth I suspect. Heres to you proving me an a$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdsknbill Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 Looks like somebody has been called out.:nana: :laythehur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 Hot digitty, the guantlet has been thrown down. Even better, front row seats:thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Slammer Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 I don't know if that's fair, UtahRedskins. I don't think it's too much to expect for a multi-million dollar offensive line with three pro bowl caliber players to block better than they have, no matter whose fault it is. It's not ASF or Bulldog's responsibility to make the changes, it's our highly touted coaching staff. Anyone can see the protection isn't where it needs to be. I'd hope you'd agree, Utah. So what's better to do as fans? Think, oh, there's no use in noting the problem and trying to find its source? Or pulling an ASF and doing a fan's perspective breakdown of what he feels the problems are? If ASF or Bulldog could put together the solution that you want them to, then they deserve the $5 million a year to coach the Redskins. But I don't think that, as fans, it's too much to expect the football geniuses that we have hired to deal with the problem themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskeypeet Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 I agree with Slammer. Although I'm sure both ASF and Bulldog are up to the challenge Utah is asking a little much in my mind. I don't think pointing out obvious breakdowns in the team's play means that one is holding himself out as an expert on a subject. Their criticism may leave the relm of constructive at times but I don't think of these two as experts and don't think they have painted themselves as such. Our team has obvious problems without any really obvious solutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 Slammer. I don't know about bulldog, I think he may just like being miserable. :laugh: (sorry dawg ), but ASF acts like he has all the answers. He deserves to be called out. This board can be a great place to discuss football but it is even better when people know what they are talking about or at least know their limitations and are willing to learn. When somone like ASF starts talking BS, he leads a whole bunch of people down the path to ignorance just because he *sounds* like he knows what he is talking about and is so persuasive. ASF left unchecked, would lower the football IQ of this board by 20% :laugh: So how about it ASF? any words of wisdom or are you just going to talk about licking someones balls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 You know....it is truly frightening what you kind find on Google. I hereby decree this a 'NO ****-licking Zone'. Of course, its up to the community..... PS - I could swear thats McNabb in that pic .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RF4L Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 what a bunch of egotists. who can piss the farthest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 All I have to say to Utah is :notworthy ASF and bulldog are probably calling their local high school as we speak trying to get in touch with the head football coach to get some knowledge. :rotflmao: I'm just curious if ASF is stalking Helton as every 5 seconds he posts something with Kim as the subject. Bulldog, no doubt is one miserable son of a you know what. I'm not trying to flame these guys, i'm just calling it as I see it. Hail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panel Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 Originally posted by RF4L what a bunch of egotists. who can piss the farthest? I can piss pretty far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 63 inches. Beat it Poser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 Originally posted by panel I can piss pretty far. Yeah! Well I can draw a redskins logo in the snow! Top THAT! :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskeypeet Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 but ASF acts like he has all the answers Mike ASF usually comes off (to me) as an "opinionated" fan who is looking for answers/solutions to the Redskins problems. When he go's beyond that I tend to ignore him. I'm sure you could list plenty of examples where he has in fact exceeded the boundry of looking for solutions to this team's problems..........but don't we all at times? In fact I seem to remember a guy FLOODING the board with posts around draft time about the merits of drafting a wide receiver. He may or may not have known what he was talking about at the time. Either way it sure didn't stop him from shoving his opinion down everyone's throat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 This does bring up a very interesting question or two, how many on the board actually know something about coaching. & Are there any members in the "know" about the Redskins pratices gameplans etc...players, coaches, or FO personsell, that come in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 Oh yeah?(sound like a new guy there ), well........................... I'll get back to ya. RF4L doesn't know. And yeah slammer it is fair. This site's the best because one is expected to back up one's opinion around here. And best be ready to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OaktonSkins/BushFan Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 Originally posted by Kenny All I have to say to Utah is :notworthy ASF and bulldog are probably calling their local high school as we speak trying to get in touch with the head football coach to get some knowledge. :rotflmao: I'm just curious if ASF is stalking Helton as every 5 seconds he posts something with Kim as the subject. Bulldog, no doubt is one miserable son of a you know what. I'm not trying to flame these guys, i'm just calling it as I see it. Hail! Put down the crack pipe please and think for a moment. How many OL players have we gone through that have failed miserably under Helton's tutalage? Hell, Randy Thomas probably succeeds, in part, because he probably ignores Helton. Don't get me wrong, I think many of the OL players, FB's, RB's assigned to a blocking role are also at fault. Helton, however, has the responsibilty to coach these guys up and we have exactly one player on the OL performing well. Remember last season's OL? Same sh*t, different players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 Whiskeypeet. Coles cost us our first round pick and has added exacty the dimension that poster was talking about, so maybe he knew what he was talking about after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 Coaches who actually do know X's and 0's are still capable of going 1-15. If every coach had the answer... every team in the NFL would be 16-0. To think just because they are professional football coaches makes them infallible or beyond criticism because they got there and you haven't... doesn't stop everyone of us from b!tching about our own managers and bosses does it? Do you know the inner workings of every company of every product you've ever bought? Of course not. That doesn't stop you from b!tching though when it isn't up to your standards... even though you probably don't know squat about rechargeable batteries. Or that doctor you went to see whom you felt didn't know jack sh!t about your problems... even though he spent how manys years practicing medicine. Coaches come and go in the NFL. As they do in college. And it's not because they weren't qualified for the job. Would bulldog and ASF know precise blocking schemes and how to defense certains alignments? I wouldn't think so. But it doesn't mean they can't state the obvious... which appears to be something is lacking on this football team. Even the coaches know it. Spurrier tells us every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 1. Cut Regan Upshaw and begin as an organization to work to marginalize and eliminate players who refuse over time to play within the rules when on the field. This move is not an end but a beginning. The ethic should be that the Redskins may lose a game on the field to superior talent but they are not going to lose games because they were goaded into cheap penalties or refused to play smart. Having a guy in the paper chirping about his tendency to take these kinds of penalties is something I would rather read about in some OTHER city's daily Offense. Reduce the immediate load on Ramsey 1. Make a commitment to the run. Use Betts to establish the between the tackles game and Canidate as the change of pace back instead of the starter. Control the clock instead of allowing other teams to control our defense, keeping them on the field for 9 and 10 minute drives. Those are the drives WE need to put together. I think finding success on the ground will be one factor in getting the confidence and focus of the offensive line back. 2. Make greater use of Chamberlain and the backs in the short passing game. The Redskins short passing game right now consists of tossing the ball to Chad Morton on screens on third and 20. Other teams regularly make use of the 5-7 yard pass, something that for some reason seems to be missing from this team on Sundays. Think the Redskins won't be more effective as an offense when trying to convert third and 3 instead of third and 8? 3. Use play action off the run to get the ball to Coles, Gardner and other receivers such as McCants and Chamberlain down the field. Right now, Spurrier is telling us that unless he gets 5 receivers into the defensive zone the club won't be able to be productive and exploit matchups. I don't buy it. Frankly, I see other teams doing just the opposite. Fox and Carolina are getting big plays down the field now because teams are forced to bring the floating safety up to play Davis inside and the Panthers are getting single coverage on the outside. Other than the Rams how many teams are pulling 4 or 5 guys on a regular basis and being successful? IMHO the Rams right now have a better pass blocking line than the Skins and a quarterback who has a quick release. Ramsey is still a work in progress in that regard. So, on offense I am not recommending anything revolutionary. In fact when Spurrier said tonight he was going to go back and try to simplify things, I was hoping he meant going back to trying to do the basics, run the ball, complete the short and intermediate passes and work to add things in for Ramsey as the unit gained confidence in what it was doing and the execution became crisper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 Die Hard I agree with you to a point. There is a point were the constant complaining is counter productive. example; My former job, I dealt directly with the public solving problems. I was amazed how many people who never worked one minute in the telephone industry, who would explain how I was supposed to do my job, or tell me what was wrong with the phone company... or all you have to do is this or that. You couldn't explain anything because "they knew" and would explain to me, my problem was I was stupid or I didn't care enough. There impatient and difficult attitude made my job more difficult to help them get what they wanted. You don't know how many times I wanted to call one of those "difficult" customers bluff, and ask them to come to my office sit at my desk, and show me how to fix their problem. :lmao: On the other hand customers who were patient listened and worked with me, were much happier, understood more than before, and we were able to solve the problem much faster. what this has to do with people gripping on a message board... I haven't a clue. :twitch: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 KENNY, my man................ please take that joystick out from between your legs, didn't you read the warning label on that thing? :laugh: speaking of posting something of value, when was the last time we read ANYTHING of value from YOU regarding ANY subject? go back and put a link on here to a thread YOU posted that even remotely attempts to bring up issues germaine to the team. YOU appear to be one of the kings of the short, two or three line post that says "I agree with X about Y" Don't you even have an original thought you can express? pathetic little wiggle, aren't you? :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 I'd also like to add... how about attacking blitzing defenses the way the seem to attack us? You send the running back to the side of the blitzer.. and you pass to the area the blitzer vacates. That's where the play of the option of the TE becomes valuable as well. The problem is... we don't ever use our backs as viable receiving options. Their numbers are called a few plays a game... but it's done just for offensive variety and unpredictability. Not because it's employed as a strategy. Don't think Brad Johnson has only been sacked once this year because of his escapability. Frankly, I don't see very much complexity in Spurrier's offense. I don't see a rhythm or pattern to his playcalling. Calling plays to setup up other plays later in the game. I see WR-screens, slants and crossing patterns... mixed in with a few hooks. And given the lack of success of running the ball often times.. we've put our offense in a lot of 3rd and longs. I know with this offense we certainly have the ability to convert it. But you can't consistently put the offense in that kind of situation on every series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 you have to crawl before you can walk, walk before you can run. The inability of the players right now to pick up the schemes, and keep making mental mistakes... limits the playbook Collingsworth made a comment yesterday on the deep throw to Gardner Ramsey missed by a foot, how Spurrier had been setting up for that play with the quick screens out to WR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 I'd like to see more traps and counter plays in the running game, more playaction and boolegs with the passing. I'd love to see Thomas get a chance to blindside someone. Gibbs did it, Fox does it now and Parcells did it on the last drive against Filthy Fecals. I think if SS gets a bit more creative with the running game, not just commiting to the run, we'd see a bit more lucidness in the flow of the offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yomar Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 I'd sign Tre Johnson, give him an #80something jersey and play him as an H back, lining up either on the end or in the backfield. We don't really use the TE anyway, but in the interest of keeping the D honest and for my own amusement, I would occasionally line him up on the outside and have Tre run a fly pattern. I'd also line him up in the slot to block down on those WR screens and off tackle runs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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