D&T.com: McDonalds’ suggested budget for employees shows just how impossible it is to get by on minimum wage

[elkabong82]

One of the problems with raising the minimum wage is the strain on small businesses.  When I go to the local hardware store, there is always a teenage kid there to greet me and take me to where I need to go in the store.  If you raise minimum wage too high, the store can't afford the kid and then I might as well wander the aisles lost in Home Depot.

 

Except that all the workers in all of the businesses that can afford the higher minimum wage can then afford to go to places like Home Depot and spend money, which means more profits for the store, which means it can afford the increased minimum wage. If you only look at the short term then higher minimum wage is tough for small business, but in the long term it increases the purchasing abilities of so many that those small businesses can now be accessed by many more people which will increase their profits.

 

Also, I wasn't aware that Home Depot was a small business though.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

One of the problems with raising the minimum wage is the strain on small businesses.  When I go to the local hardware store, there is always a teenage kid there to greet me and take me to where I need to go in the store.  If you raise minimum wage too high, the store can't afford the kid and then I might as well wander the aisles lost in Home Depot.

 

Except that all the workers in all of the businesses that can afford the higher minimum wage can then afford to go to places like Home Depot and spend money, which means more profits for the store, which means it can afford the increased minimum wage. If you only look at the short term then higher minimum wage is tough for small business, but in the long term it increases the purchasing abilities of so many that those small businesses can now be accessed by many more people which will increase their profits.

 

Also, I wasn't aware that Home Depot was a small business though.

 

His point was that the kid that would work at the Ma & Pa store now takes a job at Home Depot because only they can afford him with the increased minimum wage.

[elkabong82]

 

You can't raise a family on single income from lowest paid jobs in the country.  Unless they raise MW to $15+/hour.  As previously stated, those jobs were not intended, nor should they be, to raise a family on.

 

And...$100 for cable?  I don't even pay that. IMO if you're really scrimping for $, you don't have cable and your phone is the cheapest cell you can buy.

 

Look at the budget again. It shows 1 person working 2 jobs that can barely support themselves. Even if it is low wage, a person working 2 jobs should be able to support at least themselves at a decent, comfortable level.

 

The cable thing included phone, which is necessary for employers to contact you if you want to improve your job status. There are cheaper cable packages, but everyone needs some form of entertainment and it usually costs money. So if you don't have cable then you are just going to spend that money on other forms of entertainment. But hey, at least the extra savings means they could then afford to heat and cool their living space on that budget.

 

I think it's time society started changing its view on the value of low wage jobs. Most of them require labor and/or putting up with a lot of BS from customers and management that treat you like crap because your job is low wage. As I pointed out earlier in this thread, a lot of office jobs where a person does make a decent living, the tasks are not challenging and don't require a lot more out of a person than a McDonald's shift does and those companies don't post near the profits that McDonald's does. 

 

I also think that people's views on minimum wage is antiquated. Many think $10/hr is too much "just to flip burgers" but ignore the rising costs all around them. We are in an age now where minimum wage does need to be higher than $7.25, and the 2 income budget that 1 person can't really live off of is proof. Even a small increase up to $10 would be enough. The top keeps increasing, so there's no reason the bottom shouldn't rise as well. 

 

Nice post.

 

I don't have any issue with raising minimum wage if it's deemed unfair. I do have a bit of an issue with the assumption that any human deserves to afford current luxuries (well, they have to do SOMETHING at night) just because they are ambitious enough to work. Maybe these jobs are undervalued and could demand a few more dollars per hour. But I don't think that fixes too much.

 

Also, if there are all of these office jobs that are not nearly as challenging as a minimum wage job, then they should be considered an option for the people working minimum wage jobs. If you are telling me that someone making minimum wage right now could meet all the requirements and perform all the duties of a salaried staff worker at an office, then by all means they should apply.

 

Those office jobs should be considered an option, if not for the screening practices of employers who devalue that line of work like most of society does while overvaluing the office work, also like most of society does. 

 

But still, they should apply. Just use that extra cash just laying around to update your resume. Just use that nice computer you can afford to do that, print it out on that nice printer you can afford, take the time off work you afford to take off and that the boss will let you take off and drive those extra miles you can afford in gas to many interviews that it will take to land one of those jobs that are so easy to come by in this economy. 

 

Or society can start realizing that poverty is like quicksand, "menial" jobs are a necessary component of a functioning society, and up minimum wages thus lowering the branch so people can pull themselves out of that quicksand. 

 

One of the problems with raising the minimum wage is the strain on small businesses.  When I go to the local hardware store, there is always a teenage kid there to greet me and take me to where I need to go in the store.  If you raise minimum wage too high, the store can't afford the kid and then I might as well wander the aisles lost in Home Depot.

 

Except that all the workers in all of the businesses that can afford the higher minimum wage can then afford to go to places like Home Depot and spend money, which means more profits for the store, which means it can afford the increased minimum wage. If you only look at the short term then higher minimum wage is tough for small business, but in the long term it increases the purchasing abilities of so many that those small businesses can now be accessed by many more people which will increase their profits.

 

Also, I wasn't aware that Home Depot was a small business though.

 

His point was that the kid that would work at the Ma & Pa store now takes a job at Home Depot because only they can afford him with the increased minimum wage.

 

And my point was that all those Home Depot employees and many, many other employees nationwide could then afford to shop at the Mom and Pop stores so then those stores could afford more employees at the new minimum wage. Long term view instead of short term. If so many consumers are living off low wages, and many, many are, how many do you think are going to a Mom and Pop store instead of a low-cost, low-quality corp.? Not many. But if you increase their wages to where the Mom and Pop stores become feasible, then you just gave those small businesses a much larger customer base, and in the long run that is FAR more helpful to them.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

So, despite being completely qualified for something, it's too much to ask someone to spend time in his or her spare time (I know, I know...these people are working 80 hour weeks!!!) to try to improve his or her lot in life?

 

I think you could apply for jobs if you use a computer at a public library for an hour. If you dedicate an hour per week you can identify and apply for several jobs online. If you get so far as to get an interview, I would think taking an hour or two off would be worth the $15 you're leaving on the table at McDonald's.

 

But it's these built-in excuses that annoy me. It's almost like there is a reliance on having the deck stacked against us, just so we can claim we had no shot.

[ncr2h]

How about this (and I know this is completely off-the-rocker crazy) -

 

Instead of the government stepping in, we look at other common sense options like

 

- living with your parents/relatives/friends/coworkers/spouse

- getting a ride with your parents/relatives/friends/coworkers/spouse, or walking, riding a bike, or riding a cheap motorcycle to work

- taking a look at what's really necessary - sorry, but cable TV is not necessary (I don't have it)

 

I don't understand why the minimum wage is always looked at as the first resort, rather than the last resort.

[rictus58]

http://money.cnn.com/gallery/news/economy/2013/07/17/mcdonalds-worker-budget/index.html?hpt=hp_c3

Devonte Yates, 21, is working to get an Associate's Degree in criminal justice and logs in about 25 hours a week at a McDonald's in Milwaukee. To cut down on costs, he lives with his mom and little sister. Still, he struggles to pay his $180 tuition bill each month. He's only able to pay about $90.

 

He said that the school is more forgiving of him not paying his bill in full while he is still taking classes. But when he graduates next semester, he is worried about how he's going to pay it back.

 

Besides tuition, some of Yates' expenses that fall under the "other" category are $40 per month for contact lenses and $50 on clothes. Food, at $300, is his biggest monthly expense, as it is for most of the other workers interviewed.

More at link

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Is it news now that a student isn't able to pay for school and be completely self-sufficient on a part-time, minimum wage salary? I don't know if the goal of minimum wage should be for anyone to be able to work part-time and also pay for his/her education.

[elkabong82]

So, despite being completely qualified for something, it's too much to ask someone to spend time in his or her spare time (I know, I know...these people are working 80 hour weeks!!!) to try to improve his or her lot in life?

 

I think you could apply for jobs if you use a computer at a public library for an hour. If you dedicate an hour per week you can identify and apply for several jobs online. If you get so far as to get an interview, I would think taking an hour or two off would be worth the $15 you're leaving on the table at McDonald's.

 

But it's these built-in excuses that annoy me. It's almost like there is a reliance on having the deck stacked against us, just so we can claim we had no shot.

 

They aren't built-in excuses, they are realities that people face. What annoys me is the complete disregard you and others show for those situations. Plenty of low-wage people are hard-working and do struggle to find ways out. Plenty of people, like you seemingly, completely devalue just how much of a struggle it is. A couple bucks more an hour to raise the bottom line to something that is feasible is really all most need to improve their station in life. When the bottom line is incredibly low, then the things necessary to improve one's situation become harder and harder to do, but you write it off as "built-in excuses," which sound incredibly crass.

 

Taking an hour or two off? Wow, you must have nice employers because low wage shift jobs most aren't going to afford you that time. After working 74 hours a week, hope you have extra time to get to that public library. Hope there's one near you or you own a car to get to one so you can go online each week. Is it impossible? No. Is it unnecessarily daunting right now? Absolutely! You really think in THIS country that it should be THIS difficult for someone to improve their job status? Do you think a couple extra bucks an hour to make these things more feasible is so terrible? Nobody is saying the extreme someone else listed of $30/hr to screw a bolt, just $2.75 extra an hour. Just enough to where the bottom line is realistically sustainable. 

How about this (and I know this is completely off-the-rocker crazy) -

 

Instead of the government stepping in, we look at other common sense options like

 

- living with your parents/relatives/friends/coworkers/spouse

- getting a ride with your parents/relatives/friends/coworkers/spouse, or walking, riding a bike, or riding a cheap motorcycle to work

- taking a look at what's really necessary - sorry, but cable TV is not necessary (I don't have it)

 

I don't understand why the minimum wage is always looked at as the first resort, rather than the last resort.

 

Hope you aren't an orphan and/or living in poverty with a social network of poor people. Otherwise the solution you just offered is the same thing we see today with immigrants overcrowding single person apartments and the same solution that created slums.

 

For many, minimum wage is the ONLY resort. Count yourself lucky to have had a good enough support system in life to where the above options are actually feasible means of avoiding poverty.

[rictus58]

Is it news now that a student isn't able to pay for school and be completely self-sufficient on a part-time, minimum wage salary? I don't know if the goal of minimum wage should be for anyone to be able to work part-time and also pay for his/her education.

 

Funny, I thought there were a number of people advocating putting yourself through college to better your life. The guy referenced above is trying to do that. Instead, he still gets crapped on.

[elkabong82]

Is it news now that a student isn't able to pay for school and be completely self-sufficient on a part-time, minimum wage salary? I don't know if the goal of minimum wage should be for anyone to be able to work part-time and also pay for his/her education.

 

It was decades ago, and the country prospered.

 

The person in the article isn't even completely self-sufficient. It said he was living at home.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that education shouldn't be available to low-income earners? That it is unreasonable that a young adult living at home and working at McDonald's part-time should be able to afford higher education part-time?

 

Do you realize such a belief is what keeps poor people poor, keeps the country from realizing its full potential, maintains the drain on gov't assistance, worsens the nation's health problems, and increases crime rates?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

So, despite being completely qualified for something, it's too much to ask someone to spend time in his or her spare time (I know, I know...these people are working 80 hour weeks!!!) to try to improve his or her lot in life?

 

I think you could apply for jobs if you use a computer at a public library for an hour. If you dedicate an hour per week you can identify and apply for several jobs online. If you get so far as to get an interview, I would think taking an hour or two off would be worth the $15 you're leaving on the table at McDonald's.

 

But it's these built-in excuses that annoy me. It's almost like there is a reliance on having the deck stacked against us, just so we can claim we had no shot.

 

They aren't built-in excuses, they are realities that people face. What annoys me is the complete disregard you and others show for those situations. Plenty of low-wage people are hard-working and do struggle to find ways out. Plenty of people, like you seemingly, completely devalue just how much of a struggle it is. A couple bucks more an hour to raise the bottom line to something that is feasible is really all most need to improve their station in life. When the bottom line is incredibly low, then the things necessary to improve one's situation become harder and harder to do, but you write it off as "built-in excuses," which sound incredibly crass.

 

Taking an hour or two off? Wow, you must have nice employers because low wage shift jobs most aren't going to afford you that time. After working 74 hours a week, hope you have extra time to get to that public library. Hope there's one near you or you own a car to get to one so you can go online each week. Is it impossible? No. Is it unnecessarily daunting right now? Absolutely! You really think in THIS country that it should be THIS difficult for someone to improve their job status? Do you think a couple extra bucks an hour to make these things more feasible is so terrible? Nobody is saying the extreme someone else listed of $30/hr to screw a bolt, just $2.75 extra an hour. Just enough to where the bottom line is realistically sustainable. 

 

If you've read my replies, I don't have any issue raising the minimum wage. I just have a problem with people flying in like a modern-day Samuel Gompers claiming that upward mobility is next to impossible and that everyone who doesn't make it in life is a victim of the man.

 

So, in my scenario to go to the public library for an hour per week to apply for jobs, you state that it's "unnecessarily daunting" to do. Do I think it should be that difficult? I don't really know, but if I was unhappy with my current job, I don't think finding a way to get online for an hour per week would be the barrier that prevented me from applying to all these office jobs I'm overqualified for.

 

Look, in the end, I'm fine with the minimum wage being raised to any amount...make it $12/hour. You know what? You're still going to have a million of these anecdotal stories out there of how this guy can't raise his two kids working at McDonalds or that girl can't pay for college while working at DQ.

 

Do you just keep raising the wages until no one can fail? I think that very large number of people who can't make ends meet (not all, but a lot) find a way to spend what they make in unwise ways. I'm not judging anyone because I do the same thing when I come into money or get a raise, whatever.

 

So, for the people out there who work their asses off, only spend money on things they need, and still aren't able to get by...I am genuinely sorry for them and hope that things improve. However, a good number of people who come up "just short" making $8 per hour today will find a way to be in that exact same position making $12 per hour tomorrow....they'll just tweet about it from their new iPhone.

[rictus58]

The fact some can't get past, "This is what I did and I lead a successful life" is extremely frustrating.

That's like a billionare telling anyone here, "this is what I did, you do it too, and you can be a billionare like me!"

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Is it news now that a student isn't able to pay for school and be completely self-sufficient on a part-time, minimum wage salary? I don't know if the goal of minimum wage should be for anyone to be able to work part-time and also pay for his/her education.

 

Funny, I thought there were a number of people advocating putting yourself through college to better your life. The guy referenced above is trying to do that. Instead, he still gets crapped on.

 

No, I'm glad he's trying to. It's admirable. I mean that.

Is it news now that a student isn't able to pay for school and be completely self-sufficient on a part-time, minimum wage salary? I don't know if the goal of minimum wage should be for anyone to be able to work part-time and also pay for his/her education.

 

It was decades ago, and the country prospered.

 

The person in the article isn't even completely self-sufficient. It said he was living at home.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that education shouldn't be available to low-income earners? That it is unreasonable that a young adult living at home and working at McDonald's part-time should be able to afford higher education part-time?

 

Do you realize such a belief is what keeps poor people poor, keeps the country from realizing its full potential, maintains the drain on gov't assistance, worsens the nation's health problems, and increases crime rates?

 

I think someone living at home, working part-time, and going to school is fantastic. I think there are programs established to help individuals like that pay for education, right? What did I miss...can you only pay for college with savings now?

The fact some can't get past, "This is what I did and I lead a successful life" is extremely frustrating.

That's like a billionare telling anyone here, "this is what I did, you do it too, and you can be a billionare like me!"

 

Is that directed at me? Where did I even imply that I have a gameplan?

[elkabong82]

 

So, despite being completely qualified for something, it's too much to ask someone to spend time in his or her spare time (I know, I know...these people are working 80 hour weeks!!!) to try to improve his or her lot in life?

 

I think you could apply for jobs if you use a computer at a public library for an hour. If you dedicate an hour per week you can identify and apply for several jobs online. If you get so far as to get an interview, I would think taking an hour or two off would be worth the $15 you're leaving on the table at McDonald's.

 

But it's these built-in excuses that annoy me. It's almost like there is a reliance on having the deck stacked against us, just so we can claim we had no shot.

 

They aren't built-in excuses, they are realities that people face. What annoys me is the complete disregard you and others show for those situations. Plenty of low-wage people are hard-working and do struggle to find ways out. Plenty of people, like you seemingly, completely devalue just how much of a struggle it is. A couple bucks more an hour to raise the bottom line to something that is feasible is really all most need to improve their station in life. When the bottom line is incredibly low, then the things necessary to improve one's situation become harder and harder to do, but you write it off as "built-in excuses," which sound incredibly crass.

 

Taking an hour or two off? Wow, you must have nice employers because low wage shift jobs most aren't going to afford you that time. After working 74 hours a week, hope you have extra time to get to that public library. Hope there's one near you or you own a car to get to one so you can go online each week. Is it impossible? No. Is it unnecessarily daunting right now? Absolutely! You really think in THIS country that it should be THIS difficult for someone to improve their job status? Do you think a couple extra bucks an hour to make these things more feasible is so terrible? Nobody is saying the extreme someone else listed of $30/hr to screw a bolt, just $2.75 extra an hour. Just enough to where the bottom line is realistically sustainable. 

 

If you've read my replies, I don't have any issue raising the minimum wage. I just have a problem with people flying in like a modern-day Samuel Gompers claiming that upward mobility is next to impossible and that everyone who doesn't make it in life is a victim of the man.

 

All I've said is that the bottom line in this country needs to be one of reasonable sustainability and it clearly is not right now. Throughout our history there are periods where the bottom level does not rise with the top, disparity widens, and the burden placed on the poor and lowest middle class is practically insurmountable. Each time it has caused a bad dip in the economy, rises in crime, poor nationwide health, and low education performance overall. The effects of a poor bottom line in the country historically are always relatively the same, and always hurts the country overall because it is a draining/quicksand effect that drags more in as it spreads.

 

Those periods are usually followed by reform periods where the bottom line is raised to a point of sustainability. Right now we are in one of those times where the disparity is too much and the bottom line is not really sustainable, so we need a reform period to raise that bottom line up. Increasing the minimum wage just to $10 would be enough to make the bottom line feasible again.

 

Am I saying a low wage job should be enough for 1 person to raise a family, own a house and a car? No I am not. 

 

Am I saying that a person working 2 low wage jobs should be making enough to afford to live by themselves in an ok but not great apartment, have a used car, ok insurance, and be able to reasonably get by? Absolutely.

[rictus58]

 

Is it news now that a student isn't able to pay for school and be completely self-sufficient on a part-time, minimum wage salary? I don't know if the goal of minimum wage should be for anyone to be able to work part-time and also pay for his/her education.

 

Funny, I thought there were a number of people advocating putting yourself through college to better your life. The guy referenced above is trying to do that. Instead, he still gets crapped on.

 

No, I'm glad he's trying to. It's admirable. I mean that.

> 

Is it news now that a student isn't able to pay for school and be completely self-sufficient on a part-time, minimum wage salary? I don't know if the goal of minimum wage should be for anyone to be able to work part-time and also pay for his/her education.

 

It was decades ago, and the country prospered.

 

The person in the article isn't even completely self-sufficient. It said he was living at home.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that education shouldn't be available to low-income earners? That it is unreasonable that a young adult living at home and working at McDonald's part-time should be able to afford higher education part-time?

 

Do you realize such a belief is what keeps poor people poor, keeps the country from realizing its full potential, maintains the drain on gov't assistance, worsens the nation's health problems, and increases crime rates?

 

I think someone living at home, working part-time, and going to school is fantastic. I think there are programs established to help individuals like that pay for education, right? What did I miss...can you only pay for college with savings now?

The fact some can't get past, "This is what I did and I lead a successful life" is extremely frustrating.

That's like a billionare telling anyone here, "this is what I did, you do it too, and you can be a billionare like me!"

 

Is that directed at me? Where did I even imply that I have a gameplan?

 

It's directed at a number of people.

Quite a few posts in this thread walk that line.

What works for one isn't going to work for many. If there were a simple soultion, we obviously wouldn't have this problem.

Frankly, I have a problem with companies posting record profits at the expense of their employees, to make a BoD happy.

FTR, I also have a problem with how welfare works as well. I'm of the mind that those who receive public dollars should be forced to give back in some fashion...that goes for Corporate welfare as well.

[renaissance]

If anything, the outrage over this budget underscores how entitled many people in the US are.

 

Overall, the message from them is clear - every single job in this country should support a single wage-earner, living in his/her own apartment or house, with dependents.  There can be absolutely no making of common-sense financial decisions such as (a) living with your parents until (or even after) you are married, ( getting rides with a coworker, friend, or parent, or © splitting bills with a spouse or significant other.  These are unacceptable in America - the minimum wage must cover the absolute worst-case scenario of the dude who knows absolutely nobody, has no parents or completely alienated his parents and relatives, has no friends, and has kids that depend on him.  If we expect people to do these things it's actually our fault for even thinking that someone could live such a sheltered and priveleged life.

 

The other message is that there are certain budget items that are universally necessary and it would be barbaric to live without them.  Things like medical insurance, cable TV, cell phones, cars, etc. are all luxury items that are self-evidently not necessary.  Cars could fit into this category as well.  We can't have people in this country slogging around without a cell phone and car, because that would be such a 3rd world existence.

 

I understand and to an extent agree with the argument that there are luxuries which we mistake for necessities. However I believe that some of those things which you list as luxuries are in fact necessary to succeed in our society. If you want to be successful somewhere else, maybe you don't need a cell phone or access to regular transportation, but in the United States, you definitely need those things.

 

The fact is, that without the phone, health insurance, and transportation, you are NEVER going to be able to move up in the world, much less grow and support a family.

 

Just to give some more explanation...

 

Phones - Imagine job searching without a cell phone. And really, imagine doing it without internet and regular access to email. Sure, maybe with a land line you will get by, but in this job market, sometimes it's the first person to answer the call that gets the gig. Is it a basic necessity for survival? Definitely not. But it is more necessary than some would imply.

 

Health Insurance - Have you ever been seriously injured? Had to go to the hospital? Been really sick? If not, maybe you don't understand how important health insurance is. Even with insurance, individuals can get destroyed by debt caused by health issues.

 

Cars - I agree everyone doesn't need to have a car, but they do need to have regular access to transportation. There are some low-paying jobs that actually won't hire individuals who cannot prove they have their own means of transportation, because managers don't want to hire someone who relies on their mom/dad/friend for a ride to work every day.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Fair enough, I don't mean to come off like a jerk. I don't mind minimum wage doubling or tripling if that's the right course of action (I'm not smart enough to know what the economic impact would be).

 

I just think life is about decisions and choices...and sometimes personal accountability gets swept under the rug in these debates. I make the "wrong" decisions all the time. It's not always easy, but there are always options for people to really do everything they can to change their lives. If my luck runs out and I find myself in a tough spot, I'd have to look back at some of those decisions and hold myself accountable just as much as I would hold "fate" accountable. That's what just seems to be lost a lot of times.

 

I certainly appreciate and respect your point of view.

 

 

Is it news now that a student isn't able to pay for school and be completely self-sufficient on a part-time, minimum wage salary? I don't know if the goal of minimum wage should be for anyone to be able to work part-time and also pay for his/her education.

 

Funny, I thought there were a number of people advocating putting yourself through college to better your life. The guy referenced above is trying to do that. Instead, he still gets crapped on.

 

No, I'm glad he's trying to. It's admirable. I mean that.

>>> 

Is it news now that a student isn't able to pay for school and be completely self-sufficient on a part-time, minimum wage salary? I don't know if the goal of minimum wage should be for anyone to be able to work part-time and also pay for his/her education.

 

It was decades ago, and the country prospered.

 

The person in the article isn't even completely self-sufficient. It said he was living at home.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that education shouldn't be available to low-income earners? That it is unreasonable that a young adult living at home and working at McDonald's part-time should be able to afford higher education part-time?

 

Do you realize such a belief is what keeps poor people poor, keeps the country from realizing its full potential, maintains the drain on gov't assistance, worsens the nation's health problems, and increases crime rates?

 

I think someone living at home, working part-time, and going to school is fantastic. I think there are programs established to help individuals like that pay for education, right? What did I miss...can you only pay for college with savings now?

The fact some can't get past, "This is what I did and I lead a successful life" is extremely frustrating.

That's like a billionare telling anyone here, "this is what I did, you do it too, and you can be a billionare like me!"

 

Is that directed at me? Where did I even imply that I have a gameplan?

 

It's directed at a number of people.

Quite a few posts in this thread walk that line.

What works for one isn't going to work for many. If there were a simple soultion, we obviously wouldn't have this problem.

Frankly, I have a problem with companies posting record profits at the expense of their employees, to make a BoD happy.

FTR, I also have a problem with how welfare works as well. I'm of the mind that those who receive public dollars should be forced to give back in some fashion...that goes for Corporate welfare as well.

 

 

Well I hope I didn't give that impression. My only "me" story was about $600 in rent being perfectly reasonable nearly everywhere in this country (since I paid $800 in a very nice place).

 

I understand your points completely. See above for my main gripe with these debates.

If anything, the outrage over this budget underscores how entitled many people in the US are.

 

Overall, the message from them is clear - every single job in this country should support a single wage-earner, living in his/her own apartment or house, with dependents.  There can be absolutely no making of common-sense financial decisions such as (a) living with your parents until (or even after) you are married, ( getting rides with a coworker, friend, or parent, or © splitting bills with a spouse or significant other.  These are unacceptable in America - the minimum wage must cover the absolute worst-case scenario of the dude who knows absolutely nobody, has no parents or completely alienated his parents and relatives, has no friends, and has kids that depend on him.  If we expect people to do these things it's actually our fault for even thinking that someone could live such a sheltered and priveleged life.

 

The other message is that there are certain budget items that are universally necessary and it would be barbaric to live without them.  Things like medical insurance, cable TV, cell phones, cars, etc. are all luxury items that are self-evidently not necessary.  Cars could fit into this category as well.  We can't have people in this country slogging around without a cell phone and car, because that would be such a 3rd world existence.

 

I understand and to an extent agree with the argument that there are luxuries which we mistake for necessities. However I believe that some of those things which you list as luxuries are in fact necessary to succeed in our society. If you want to be successful somewhere else, maybe you don't need a cell phone or access to regular transportation, but in the United States, you definitely need those things.

 

The fact is, that without the phone, health insurance, and transportation, you are NEVER going to be able to move up in the world, much less grow and support a family.

 

Just to give some more explanation...

 

Phones - Imagine job searching without a cell phone. And really, imagine doing it without internet and regular access to email. Sure, maybe with a land line you will get by, but in this job market, sometimes it's the first person to answer the call that gets the gig. Is it a basic necessity for survival? Definitely not. But it is more necessary than some would imply.

 

Health Insurance - Have you ever been seriously injured? Had to go to the hospital? Been really sick? If not, maybe you don't understand how important health insurance is. Even with insurance, individuals can get destroyed by debt caused by health issues.

 

Cars - I agree everyone doesn't need to have a car, but they do need to have regular access to transportation. There are some low-paying jobs that actually won't hire individuals who cannot prove they have their own means of transportation, because managers don't want to hire someone who relies on their mom/dad/friend for a ride to work every day.

 

We were told at our company that it's discriminatory to ask if someone has their own car. We had an entire, boring 1-hour presentation by our HR department on that very topic. I could be wrong, but if employers are forcing employees to prove that they have their own care, it might be illegal to do so.

 

** Edit..I had to censor my own post and change another word to "jerk". Odd.

[renaissance]

We were told at our company that it's discriminatory to ask if someone has their own car. We had an entire, boring 1-hour presentation by our HR department on that very topic. I could be wrong, but if employers are forcing employees to prove that they have their own care, it might be illegal to do so.

 

 

 

They don't have to have their own car, but they have to have a reliable form a transportation. The point is, relying on your friends or parents is simply not practical for most people. That doesn't mean everyone needs to own a car, but some form of transportation, or the ability to live within walking distance, should be factored in to a budget.

[mistertim]

Its only illegal if you ask whether the car is gay or straight.

[NoCalMike]

I worked at McDonalds when I was 17-19.  At that time it was mostly high school kids and those of us who had just graduated, sprinkled in with a few adults in their 30's or older, which made up most of the managers and a one lady who was just working there out of boredom from being home too much with nothing to do.

 

In 2013 when you go to a fast food joint and look at the employee makeup, it seems to have flip flopped where the majority of employees are adults, working full-time in a household depending on that second income to get by.

 

There are a lot of folks over-qualified for those positions that simple can't find other work.  I remember during the unemployment benefits debate many said "hey, if you really wanted to you could go apply to flip burgers so you can stop sucking off the teet" well a lot of those people did, except the minimum wage job went from being a transitional job, to a mini-career because they can't find other positions.

 

Our economy seems to be overall headed towards a retail/service industry driven base which means lower salary and less benefits etc etc etc......

 

If millions of better jobs are indeed out there, we need to come up with a better system in getting folks trained and ready for those jobs. People shouldn't need to go through a 4 year degree program and 40k in debt to do a job that maybe an 8-10 month course can get them up to speed or.

 

Another issue is the companies that pay just a little over minimum wage but you will basically never see a wage increase ever.

 

I've had plenty of office jobs that barely pay more than flipping burgers.

[NoCalMike]

My mom put herself through college with a meager full-time job.  It's a lot harder to do that now and we should examine why.

 

Just saying "Oh well go get a 2nd or 3rd job" is not a reasonable answer or very good analysis of why the system seems so much more rigged today against upper mobility in the economy.

 

We keep hearing that there are jobs out there people aren't qualified for. Not necessarily low-skil jobs, but maybe a SPECIFIC set of skills.   Why can't we come up with job training over generic bachelor degrees?  Go take an 8-10 month course (shorter or longer if need be) that puts you in the driver's seat for that specific industry and job,

[Kindred]

Talk about adding insult to injury 

 

Ex McDonald’s Employee Sues Because She Doesn’t Want Her Paycheck On A Prepaid Debit Card

By Chris Morran June 17, 2013

 

Earlier this year, a woman in Pennsylvania was expecting to get her first paycheck from her new job at McDonald’s, but rather than an envelope containing cash or a check, she received a prepaid debit card from Chase. This did not go over well.

When she asked her boss about the card — which has fees like a $1.50 ATM charge, a $5 charge for over-the-counter cash withdrawals, $1 per balance inquiry, and $.75 for online bill payment — she was told it was the only option. And so she took her issue to the franchisees, who she says confirmed that she had no choice but to take the card.

And so she quit her job and found an attorney, who has subsequently filed a class-action lawsuit on behalf of the single mom and other employees. The plaintiffs allege that the debit card requirement allows the franchisee to earn “ill-gotten gains contrary to justice, equity, good conscience and Pennsylvania law.”

Section 3 of the Pennsylvania Wage Payment and Collection Law (PDF) states that employees are to be paid their wages on a regular basis and that “The wages shall be paid in lawful money of the United States or check.” The plaintiffs contend that a prepaid debit card is neither cash nor a check.

“I need to receive all the money I earn,” says the former McDonald’s worker, who had been making only about $7.44/hour. “I can’t afford to lose even a few dollars per paycheck. I just think people should be paid fairly and not have to pay fees to get their wages.”

For its part, the franchisees say they value their employees and “are committed to providing them the best possible work environment so they can deliver the fast, reliable service that our customers expect.”

 

Ex McDonald’s Employee Sues Because She Doesn’t Want Her Paycheck On A Prepaid Debit Card – Consumerist

http://consumerist.com/2013/06/17/ex-mcdonalds-employee-sues-because-she-doesnt-want-her-paycheck-on-a-prepaid-debit-card/

[Larry]

Took some Community College classes recently, and they do the same thing. 

 

I had to cancel a class that I'd registered for.  Instead of refunding my money back to the credit card I used to pay for the class, I get an email from some third party. 

 

The college took my personal and financial information, and handed that information to a third party company who specializes in standing between college students and people who owe them money. 

 

This third party informs me that I can either accept my money in the form of one of their credit cards, or I can wait 90 days, and then I will be allowed to ask them to snail mail me a check (for a processing fee). 

[Riggo#44]

I kind of have a problem with both ends of the spectrum.  I think corporations have too large a profit margin as others have suggested in here.  The greed at the top is terrible, when looking back on companies like Enron and such.

 

But at the other end, if you end up working at minimum wage jobs in your mid 30s or into your 40s, who do you have to blame but yourself?  There are plenty of other avenues through education, trades, military and such.  I mean, don't take my post as saying all poor people are lazy, as that's not what I think.  I know some people have been hit with hard times and that's understandable.  But somewhere along the line you have to rethink your position.  I also see a cycle of poverty in some families.  I've worked at DSS before and I saw one generation come in for benefits and then the next generation coming in the door behind them.  The hardest part is breaking that cycle.

 

We weren't rich or upper middle class growing up.  We were working class, did ok for ourselves and could always pay our bills.  Myself, I'm 45 and it took me 23 years to get to a job paying over 60K.  I had to earn my way up.  My first full time job out of college payed $6.60 an hour in an office (1991).  I had to live with roomates, had to scrimp and save and had to eat alot of Ramen.  It can be done, but you have to be patient.  This generation wants to come out of college making 60-100K and aren't willing to work their way up the ladder.

 

I would like to see minimum wage go up at the expense of profits, but isn't the cost of paying a factory worker to screw in a bolt for $30+/an hour what got the auto industry in trouble?  There has to be limits, but I would like to see it go up.

 

Very reasonable response pj. However, I want to add one more item -- the amount of money wasted by Federal and State Governments, especially by Maryland. Case in point: I have a friend that isn't quite all there, who has some fairly significant emotional issues. He needs the help. His housing is provided by the state...in $2500/mo apartments on Old Georgetown Road, across the street from the Harris Teeter (I forget the name of the complex).

 

How much money is uselessly wasted like this? How much can this be put to better use?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I want to pick back up, if anyone else is interested. My major question on this topic is this: What are the negative impacts to an increase in the minimum wage? I understand that the bottom line of businesses would be impacted, but I'm talking on the macro level.

 

Thanks in advance.