REALRICK Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 The Redskins have spent millions of dollars to go out and bring in speed to the receiving corps....and now we NEVER throw deep. Patrick Ramsey spends all day overthrowing his receivers on 5-10 yard routes because his arm is so strong....but we never send anybody on a 60 yard fly pattern. What in heavens name is up with the West Coast offense that the ball coach has instituted....and where are the deep balls? How about just 1? What a waste of speed on the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Hog Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 I have to agree......in week 1 and 2 vs. the Jets and Falcons we saw Patrick making some nice downfield throws to Laveranues on a regular basis. Is it just my imagination, or does it seem like every catch Coles has been making these last couple weeks now have been WR screen passes?........Granted, he is making some nice runs out of those plays though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan4life Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Every teams knows now we cannot protect the QB. So all they are doing since week 3 is play cover 2 with the 2safety chilling in the back. So the deep passes are no longer avail. COLES or not. They are just waiting for the deep passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REALRICK Posted October 13, 2003 Author Share Posted October 13, 2003 Thats funny. Other teams can throw deep on cover 2. If you don't send people out on the deep ball.........you certainly will never complete a deep ball. If the safeties are staying back waiting for the deep ball, then we shoud, in theory, be playing with our 11 guys to their 9 guys. Why then aren't we running the football successfully and passing all over the place for 7 yard completions. The reason is that cover 2 is not stopping anybody. We are stopping ourselves from throwing deep....by not doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Originally posted by REALRICK Thats funny. Other teams can throw deep on cover 2. If you don't send people out on the deep ball.........you certainly will never complete a deep ball. If the safeties are staying back waiting for the deep ball, then we shoud, in theory, be playing with our 11 guys to their 9 guys. Why then aren't we running the football successfully and passing all over the place for 7 yard completions. The reason is that cover 2 is not stopping anybody. We are stopping ourselves from throwing deep....by not doing it. The problem with going with the deep ball is you need to give the quarterback time to throw the ball deep. If the QB doesn't have time, he has to throw it to a shorter route reciever. This has been our problem, this is why we aren't going with 5 and 7 step drops. That is what the WCO was designed for, quick passes. I don't like it, but that's what we've gone to, because Steve Spurrier won't trust to run the ball to set up the pass. He runs just enough where he hopes the other team will respond by thinking there might be a run. In the end, they blitz the QB on every down, we get some good runs and Spurrier believes that it's time to pass again, instead of run untill they stop us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 It comes down to being able to protect the QB and we just have not been able to do that so far this season. To use Tony K's phrase, that's it, that's the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway66 Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 we should air it out a little bit more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 I'd love to see us air it out more too, but when the QB can take no more than a 3 step drop without getting his head taken off, it doesn't give the deep routes time to develope. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poidog22 Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 The problem with going with the deep ball is you need to give the quarterback time to throw the ball deep. I agree, and that's been the problem since Spurrier got here. However, I do think that we can remedy this by teaching the RB's to pick up a blitz every once in a while. Also, I believe that presenting mis-matches, (as Gruden did having Meshawn blowing past Bowen yesterday), in the secondary would make the deep ball more prevalent during the game. We also need to have a consistent running game, have the safeties creep up to the line worrying about the run, then burn 'em deep. I don't know, there seems to be a lot more to it than just have the O-line block better. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 isn't it a shame we have otherwise talented players caught up trying to execute a BS system? if you can't teach players a system they can work with in a single season, you aren't going to be successful in the NFL. there is just too much turnover in personnel now to allow for players to take 3-4 years to become comfortable. Fox doesn't have a qb near Ramsey's talent and wide receivers of merely average quality and yet the Panthers can line up and run plays without looking like a Pop Warner team on its first scrimmage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 You know Bulldog, I have been, and still am, in the "we're still gelling" camp but you bring up a great point that is tempering my optimism a lot. We do need a solution to these problems that takes less than a couple years to sink in. Let's say that Spurrier is the coach 5 years from now and we have mostly new players...I don't think we're going to want something that takes them that long to pick up. Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins26 Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 I think Spurrier explained it. By saying that Ramsey is going to struggle at some point, what they are trying to do is minimize him struggling, by not giving him 7 step drops to go out and get nailed and fumble or something. The deep balls will come when the O Line shows they can handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 The Coles WR Screen play is actually brilliant regardless of how many or lack thereof deep passes he gets. Teams are going to double or triple team Coles whenever he goes deep from now on, so for awhile we have to accept that Coles-Deep may be out of question, but now D-Mac is getting deep looks and Gardner as well. We are spreading out the defense with our scheme, but the QB never has anytime to throw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpfan Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 yeah im getting a little sick of the conservative stuff too. just when i finally accept that we we're gonna throw alot, SS goes an does this. stop messing with my mind!!! :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckeyeG Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 If he does'nt have time to throw 15-20 yard routes how is he going to throw the deeper routes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Hmm. I've seen a large dose of skepticism injected into Bulldog's posts recently, regarding the eventual success of the Fun n' Gun. I have to admit though that I agree with Bulldog, and believe Spurrier is not the 2nd Coming of Joe Gibbs, but instead is an imposter and the reincarnation of Norv Turner. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzSkinsFan63 Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Ramsey has no time!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 he has no time to throw at all. yesterday in during the game there where several plays in which the LB, CB, and safeties hardly moved from their positions before the snap of the ball and ramsey was dealing with major pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofer Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Originally posted by Fan4life Every teams knows now we cannot protect the QB. So all they are doing since week 3 is play cover 2 with the 2safety chilling in the back. So the deep passes are no longer avail. COLES or not. They are just waiting for the deep passes. Yes, that is correct. Also, the couple of times that Ramsey went deep, he was picked off. Mostly because of pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potato Sack Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 Why do you associate speed with the deep ball? I believe a lot of offenses pick up a speedster to pick up yardage after a quick slant or a crossing route as well (generally, a screen is thrown to a back or WR who will have the speed to sprint downfield after teh catch). Don't forget about end-arounds, which I think are being overused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeSkin Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 Here's how we'll throw deep: FIRE KIM HELTON! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskinjoe Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 About airing it deep... We need a QB who can throw the ball sixty yards while lying on his back and the NFL to revise the rules in order to allow him to do so. That being said... This is SS's 2nd season and I believe he now knows that he has to protect his QB in order to keep him in the game. The yank this week is a statement to the line saying "you don't deserve to block for this man". A young QB that holds onto the ball a little long is beside the point. This OL has to take care of the job they are handed. It's what they are paid to do... NO EXCUSES. If the line was doing their job and PR was sacked for holding on to the ball to long it could be corrected quickly. The bottom line is PR needs the VETS to play well around him and they are NOT. ATTN: Chris Samuels! DO THE ASSIGNMENT! It's the same crap every year with a different coach. If we could just play a complete game, one less turnover, those stupid penalties, sticking to your assignments, yada yada yada. I think the ole ball coach needs to start singling them out in the media. After all, are most penalized players and the ones who seem to be blowing assignments are Jansen, Samuels, and Arrington. You hire a coach and let him run his system. Not every coach is Bill Parcels or Joe Gibbs. Spurrier deserves the time and the respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskinjoe Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 I'm not finished. What SS has stopped doing (and I can't blame him) is coming out of the gates firing. You have to be able to do what the opposition fears most... Get the ball flying downfield. Ever since the sacks started piling up he has pulled plays back. Shorter routes and blocking backs. From the first play he should come out in the shotgun or a two TE/2B set and fire it deep. Let them know he's coming regardless. Let PR read the D and call route changes w/o audibles. PR run his checks and throw it away or run. As soon as they start working up towards sending the house (which you can see and feel it coming watching the game) go to max protect or shotgun and try to put the fear back in them! A lead FB would help on running plays too! Okay... stick a fork in me. I'm done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPare Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 I'm really disappointed in the performance of the line this year. I had thought that by bringing in Thomas and Fiore that the line would be one of hte greatest strengths of this team. Instead, it's become the greatest weakness (followed closely by the pitiful D-Line). Ironically enough, Thomas is the only one out there who seems to be playing all right. 2 things that I think are huge requirements: - improve the coaching on the O-Line: whether it's Helton or somebody else, you can see that the tackles are regressing and need some serious coaching to regain the form that they had 2 and 3 years ago. - get a centre who understands how to make line calls to pick up the blitz. It seems that Larry Moore is showing through as a converted guard rather than a true centre. One thing that you always knew with Raymer (yes, it's gotten that bad) is that he would at least be able to set the line up properly- even if his personal execution was suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REALRICK Posted October 14, 2003 Author Share Posted October 14, 2003 Great response to this thread but some of you have missed something important. Some are saying that if you don't have time for a 3 step drop how can you throw deep then. Ramsey isn't sack every play. He occasionally has 4-5 seconds to pass. But of course he completes his 7 yard over the middle. The Skins drives are being killed because our drives are composed of 15 plays and if 1 of them is a sack and fumble then the drive is over. Just throw the damn ball deep. If Ramsey is pressure 2 out of 3 plays, thats okay. If we only hit on one 50 yard pass play each drive we wopuld be in business...but I do know that if you don't take your shots you will NEVER hit one. Plys, once you start throwing downfield long....those safeties will never be blitzing and those corners will start backing up ALL the time. Thats when a wideout screen becomes really effective. Throw the damn ball deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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