Jump to content
Washington Football Team Logo
Extremeskins

Trent Williams vs. a 4-3 DeMarcus Ware


NoCalMike

Recommended Posts

With the defensive scheme in Dallas changing, all reports are saying Ware will now be positioned with a hand in the dirt much more like a traditional pass rushing DE.

 

I can't remember if Ware has been playing 3-4 for his entire NFL career or if Dallas was a 4-3 when he was drafted.

 

How do you think this changes Trent Williams's matchups with him?

 

Personally, I think this change makes it a better matchup for Silverback because Ware often relied on his edge speed to neutralize the strenght of the O-lineman he was rushing against.  His speed was so good that even though he was not as strong, he could cause the O-lineman to be off balance trying to rush.

 

Now if Ware is going to be taking on T. Williams more straight up, body on body, I think Williams has the advantage in strength and the punishment Ware will take throughout the course of the game (not to mention every other game leading up to matchups with the 'Skins) will take a lot out of him.  Also might be easier to chip block him with a RB or TE.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Trent's given up one sack to D-Ware in 3 years, and that was when Trent was a rookie. Trent basically owns the old man, 3-4 OLB or not.

 

Do think it's funny that Dallas saw D-Ware get spun around like the Tasmanian Devil and thought to themselves "Hmm how can I make it easier for our division rival to block and confuse one of our best players?".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^^This.  Yes.

 

The thing that's great about Trent isn't his strength (though he's certainly got that), but his agility.  I always find it funny when someone talks about his speed and messes up his 40 time, and he corrects them.  And I loved seeing him running on that treadmill backwards, working on his footwork.  The guy takes great pride in being able to move around the field, whether that's stopping a pass rusher, or getting to the second level to spring the RB.

 

He's absolutely dominant.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I honestly don't know.  However one thing about Ware.  As his name implies he is wearing down, last year many nagging injuries and he will be going against Trend who IMO has not even reached prime yet.  

 

One more thing.  Something tell me this switch to 4-3 is going to backfire on the boys big time.  Their CBs are mostly man to man coverage guys or at least that is where they are strong.  Now they will need to play cover 2.  It takes discipline to be successful in this new scheme.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dallas' switch to the Tampa-2 is going to be tremendous for their opponents. As the OP and subsequent posts pointed out, this is specifically going to be great for TW against Ware. Ware as a traditional 4-3 DE is really undersized. The fact that he is going to have to play head up or on the outside shoulder of the LT is the running game is a detrement to him. He's going to get pushed around and will not require double teams. By the time it gets to 3rd down, he's going to be beaten to a pulp and that will destroy any burst off the ball that would give him any kind of advantage. Man, Trent Williams is going to flat out dominate Ware this year.

Jerrah Jones neutralized one of the best pass rushers in the NFL before the first snap of the 2013 season ever took place. I LOVE IT!! Please, please, please let Jerry Jones live forever!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is going to show everyone how Ware is overrated and won't even come close to sniffing double digit sacks. Without being able to use his speed Ware is going to be unable to get to the QB like he use to. Plus it just goes to show you how much they think of him as a LB. They know he is a liability in pass defense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is going to show everyone how Ware is overrated and won't even come close to sniffing double digit sacks. Without being able to use his speed Ware is going to be unable to get to the QB like he use to. Plus it just goes to show you how much they think of him as a LB. They know he is a liability in pass defense.

That doesn't make him overrated at all. There are a lot of great OLB pass rushers that are incredible but would probably struggle as a 4-3 OLB. Ware has been an exceptional player and not at all overrated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Andre Carter is the inverse.  He was very good as a 4-3 DE and did not play well as a 3-4 OLB.  The difference is as much about responsibility as it is body placement and hand placement.  For Ware, he was a pure pass rusher in Dallas' 3-4, so not much will change for him in terms of responsibility.  I don't remember Monte peeling his DE's out into the flat very much in Tampa, but I know Mickey Andrews did it a lot at Florida State when they toyed with the Tampa 2 back in the late 90's. 

 

But I agree, this is going to backfire on them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Andre Carter is the inverse.  He was very good as a 4-3 DE and did not play well as a 3-4 OLB.  The difference is as much about responsibility as it is body placement and hand placement.  For Ware, he was a pure pass rusher in Dallas' 3-4, so not much will change for him in terms of responsibility.  I don't remember Monte peeling his DE's out into the flat very much in Tampa, but I know Mickey Andrews did it a lot at Florida State when they toyed with the Tampa 2 back in the late 90's. 

 

But I agree, this is going to backfire on them.

DC9, didn't you promise a film study of Trent vs AW? I've been looking forward to seeing it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Andre Carter is the inverse.  He was very good as a 4-3 DE and did not play well as a 3-4 OLB.  The difference is as much about responsibility as it is body placement and hand placement.  For Ware, he was a pure pass rusher in Dallas' 3-4, so not much will change for him in terms of responsibility.  I don't remember Monte peeling his DE's out into the flat very much in Tampa, but I know Mickey Andrews did it a lot at Florida State when they toyed with the Tampa 2 back in the late 90's. 

 

But I agree, this is going to backfire on them.

DC9, didn't you promise a film study of Trent vs AW? I've been looking forward to seeing it

 

Who is AW?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Andre Carter is the inverse.  He was very good as a 4-3 DE and did not play well as a 3-4 OLB.  The difference is as much about responsibility as it is body placement and hand placement.  For Ware, he was a pure pass rusher in Dallas' 3-4, so not much will change for him in terms of responsibility.  I don't remember Monte peeling his DE's out into the flat very much in Tampa, but I know Mickey Andrews did it a lot at Florida State when they toyed with the Tampa 2 back in the late 90's. 

 

But I agree, this is going to backfire on them.

DC9, didn't you promise a film study of Trent vs AW? I've been looking forward to seeing it

 

Who is AW?

Sorry I meant D.Ware

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Andre Carter is the inverse.  He was very good as a 4-3 DE and did not play well as a 3-4 OLB.  The difference is as much about responsibility as it is body placement and hand placement.  For Ware, he was a pure pass rusher in Dallas' 3-4, so not much will change for him in terms of responsibility.  I don't remember Monte peeling his DE's out into the flat very much in Tampa, but I know Mickey Andrews did it a lot at Florida State when they toyed with the Tampa 2 back in the late 90's. 

 

But I agree, this is going to backfire on them.

DC9, didn't you promise a film study of Trent vs AW? I've been looking forward to seeing it

 

Who is AW?

Sorry I meant D.Ware

 

Doesn't sound like something I would promise.. not "tragedy-to-triumph"/underdog controversy enough for me, lol.  Was that KC (NLC) or was it me?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Andre Carter is the inverse.  He was very good as a 4-3 DE and did not play well as a 3-4 OLB.  The difference is as much about responsibility as it is body placement and hand placement.  For Ware, he was a pure pass rusher in Dallas' 3-4, so not much will change for him in terms of responsibility.  I don't remember Monte peeling his DE's out into the flat very much in Tampa, but I know Mickey Andrews did it a lot at Florida State when they toyed with the Tampa 2 back in the late 90's. 

 

But I agree, this is going to backfire on them.

I don't know how much its going to backfire on them in future years but i am confident they will be total crap this year.  I just don't think they are build to change to a 4-3, especially play the cover-2.  Both their D-line and backfield will need to adjust a lot to be successful.  Can they do it?  Sure because they do have some good players but it will take time, probably an entire season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Andre Carter is the inverse.  He was very good as a 4-3 DE and did not play well as a 3-4 OLB.  The difference is as much about responsibility as it is body placement and hand placement.  For Ware, he was a pure pass rusher in Dallas' 3-4, so not much will change for him in terms of responsibility.  I don't remember Monte peeling his DE's out into the flat very much in Tampa, but I know Mickey Andrews did it a lot at Florida State when they toyed with the Tampa 2 back in the late 90's. 

 

But I agree, this is going to backfire on them.

I don't know how much its going to backfire them down in future years but i am confident they will be total crap this year.  I just don't think they are build to change to a 4-3, especially play the cover-2.  Both their D-line and backfield will need to adjust a lot to be successful.  Can they do it?  Sure because they do have some good players but it will take time, probably an entire season.

 

Agreed.  I think they have Ware and Spencer to play the RE and LE successfully... not confident in there DTs.  Their DBs will be in for an interesting season and they may have to change some out.  If their 3-4 ILB can stay healthy I think they have at least two that can start at Mike and Sam in Carter and Lee.  Connor may be able to play Will but he'll have to improve his coverage.

 

Should be interesting.

I thought it was you, Sorry. It was in another thread about 2-3 weeks ago, and said he was finishing up making a film study of all of the TW vs DW plays. I've been looking forward to seeing it. Again, sorry 

 

Yeah I'd totally do one but I don't have NFL rewind, lol.  Maybe when I get another raise and finish off the college loans, lol.  The HTTR 24-7 crew has been putting out some great stuff, though.  NLC is a bit of a perfectionist, so when it comes out you know it'll be good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regardless of talent or lack of it for any team, one thing the past has taught us is that whenever teams switch defensive schemes and coordinators, the first year presents a lot of bumps in the road. When switching from a 4-3 to a 3-4 we saw the Packers, Redskins and others struggle because it takes 2-3 years to draft players who fit your scheme and the same amount ot time for the current players to adjust and get used to the philosophy of the new defensive coordinator.

 

Why would it be any different for a team switching from a 3-4 and man to man coverage to a 4-3 and a cover 2?  Dallas has a lot of talent on Defense and it looks like their pass rush will be much better than their back end coverage. So the Redskins present the biggest challenge of any team because the smaller defensive line of Dallas will have a tough time stopping the run and so the pass rush becomes less of a factor.

 

But overall, I think Dallas has a whole lot of talent its just that scheme changes confuse the very people its suppose to help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not worried about DWare...Silverback will continue to dominate him.

 

I think the wild card for the Dallas D is gonna be Bruce Carter.  I agree that they will struggle with the transition, but I expect him to really shine in the new D.  He's an athletic freak who was just coming into his own.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is a little preview of Monte's Tampa 2 vs the zone read-ish

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RV0GdS3ueeQ

 

One interesting thing to note... Oregon does not run a lot of dive option (which is what we ran a lot of out of the pistol with Morris)... they actually perferred the jet sweep.  Against a Tampa 2 defense, they pounded the dive option in there and had a lot of shorter passes.

 

I think that was the best way to attack the Warren Sapp/Derrick Brooks Tampa Bay defenses... run it right into the teeth of the tackles.

 

Interesting that Jerry would pick something out that we (and Chip Kelly for that matter) are already adapt at beating.

 

No doubt that they have a lot of talent on their defense, but damned if this is not the best way to utilize it in my opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

IMO, Ware is the least of their problems with the switch to a 4-3 defense. He played with his hand in the dirt for his entire career in nearly every nickel/dime/pass situation, and even in the new 4-3, Ware will be moved all around the line. He doesn't excel in coverage, though he isn't bad, either. The only issue with Ware is he will be a year older, but if he is healthy, he will post similar numbers to what he's done throughout his career.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is going to show everyone how Ware is overrated and won't even come close to sniffing double digit sacks. Without being able to use his speed Ware is going to be unable to get to the QB like he use to. Plus it just goes to show you how much they think of him as a LB. They know he is a liability in pass defense.

Why wouldn't he be able to use his speed? Isn't that what made guys like Freeney so good as 4-3 ends? I'm curious to see how Ratliff plays in a 4-3.

Also, does anyone know for certain that they're converting to cover 2?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I tend to agree with the consensus in this thread that moving Ware to DE will make him an easier match up for Trent - though I think he Cowboys would be wise to flip Ware to LDE on obvious passing downs against us and take on our RT.

Just a comment on the coverages Dallas will run. Kiffin has been quoted as saying he will run more man than he has in the past - be interesting to see how that plays out but I could see him running a mixture of cover 2 and 2-man under as their base coverage concepts. Aside from the waste of good man cover corners if they run cover 2 most of the time I don't think they have the safeties to be sound in cover 2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is going to show everyone how Ware is overrated and won't even come close to sniffing double digit sacks. Without being able to use his speed Ware is going to be unable to get to the QB like he use to. Plus it just goes to show you how much they think of him as a LB. They know he is a liability in pass defense.

Why wouldn't he be able to use his speed? Isn't that what made guys like Freeney so good as 4-3 ends? I'm curious to see how Ratliff plays in a 4-3.

Also, does anyone know for certain that they're converting to cover 2?

 

Tampa 2 is the pre-dominant coverage Kiffin used in the NFL and at USC. Rod Marinelli is the same way. Both have used more man coverage in recent years, but Tampa 2 is still going to be the main thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I might be the only one who thinks this, but Ware might be the guy least affected by the change in Dallas. He's effectively played as a 4-3 Defensive end his entire career, keeping his hands in the dirt and virtually NEVER dropping back in coverage. Especially under Wade Phillips where he had a ton of success. He's always been solid against the run, nothing great, but solid... so it's not like he's going to take a huge slide in terms of his play against the run. 

 

I don't know, I don't think this is a big deal at all one way or another for Ware. He'll probably produce consistently with what he's done over the course of his career, so long as last season's health issues don't linger and lead to other things.

 

As for Trent vs. Ware... Trent has neutralized him overall anyway, so I expect the same now.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...