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footballperspective.com: Records of Great Coaches Against Great Coaches


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http://www.footballperspective.com/records-of-great-coaches-against-great-coaches/

 

 

Grading coaches across eras is even more difficult than it is with players. How do you compare Lambeau, who coached for 33 years and won 6 NFL championships, to Belichick? Lombardi became a head coach in ’59, Shula in ’63. But how do you vault when over the other when Lombardi died in 1970 while Shula was still coaching in 1995? John Madden has the best winning percentage among coaches with at least 100 games, but he took over a team that went 25-3 in the two years before he arrived. What’s the appropriate way to compare him to Walsh or Johnson?


Instead of trying to answer the difficult questions, I’ll answer something I’m very well-equipped to handle. I’ve seen people cite the records of certain coaches against each other as evidence for or against a particular coach. That’s an obviously flawed way to break a divide, but hey, it’s Friday in the offseason, so let’s look at head-to-head coaching records...

 

[...]Let me be clear: I don’t think head-to-head records amounts toanything more than trivia. I love trivia, hence today’s post. But I’m certainly not advocating that anything more be read into this post than that.

 

Keep that part the writer put in bold in mind lol...

 

Ok, for the Gibbs and Shanahan parts:

 

Vince Lombardi is ranked #1 in terms of winning percentage against other "great coaches" (0.698).

 

Shanahan is ranked #4 (0.558). Gibbs is ranked #21 (0.435). Obviously his 2nd stint as Skins coach put a dent in his ranking. Actually, Shanahan's time here as coach may have done the same for him.

 

If you onlly consider playoff games against other "great coaches", it falls like this:

 

Shanahan is still ranked #4 (8-4 record). Gibbs is ranked #11 (6-5 record).

 

Overall, Gibbs had a .500 or better record against these coaches:

 

1-0 against Bud Grant

3-0 against Marv Levy

3-0 against Chuck Noll

1-1 against Bill Belichick

2-2 against Dan Reeves

4-4 against Jimmy Johnson

8-8 against Tom Landry

 

 

 

Gibbs had a losing record against these coaches:

 

0-1 against Bill Cowher

0-1 against Mike Shanahan

0-1 against Tony Dungy

0-3 against George Seifert

1-2 against Mike Holmgren

1-3 against Marty Schottenheimer

2-3 against Don Shula

2-4 against Bill Walsh

3-5 against Tom Coughlin

9-14 against Bill Parcells

 

 

For Mike Shanahan, it falls like this:

 

.500 or above:

 

1-0 against Gibbs

1-0 against Walsh

2-1 against Levy

3-2 against Cowher

4-1 against Parcells

5-1 against Reeves

5-4 against Belichick

6-4 against Holmgren

6-6 against Coughlin

11-10 against Schottenheimer

 

 

Losing record:

 

0-1 Against Shula

1-2 against Jimmy Johnson

3-6 against Dungy

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A tasty nugget to digest over the offseason... I suppose, lol.

 

To me, a measure of a good coach is and always will be whether or not he gets outcoached.  There are great players and great teams that are the equilizer in all things, and I wasn't old enough in the 80's to remember watching Bill Walsh vs Joe Gibbs and whether or not one was getting the best of the other, but it was very hard to get one over on the old man, even in his second stint and I think Jim Zorn proved that.

 

As far as Shanny goes, I think it'll be interesting to keep an eye on this over the next couple of seasons to see how he rates against some of the better coaches now (Harbaugh, Smith, etc) with a team the team that he's constructed and finally a promising QB with a year of experience under his belt.  But statistically it's promising.  One thing to keep an eye on his is playoff hump that he needs to get over.

 

But losing to any of the names on this list is nothing to be embarrassed about.

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sOcrates: The Gibbs-Parcells rivalry was real, Parcells might have the better head-to-head record, but Gibbs had the last laugh.

 

 
When asked about Parcells, Gibbs said jokingly that he hated him. He said he would have six rings if not for Parcells. If memory serves, Joe's record was 3-8 against Parcells in Gibbs one.
 
When reminded of those matchups, I still remember Parcells calling for Mark Bavarro deep up the seam on third and short in plus territory. And then, on another series, going for it on fourth and short in plus territory. It seemed like those gambling calls worked for TDs once a game in every game.
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There was a definite "little brother complex" involved in many of those Giants-Redskins games back then. 

 

That seems to be the case. One of the few reasons why I'm glad I wasn't around for the "glory years" is because being around Giants fans during that era would've been insufferable.

 

To their credit: they had some great teams and they had one hell of a coach in Bill Parcells.

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There was a definite "little brother complex" involved in many of those Giants-Redskins games back then. 

 

That seems to be the case. One of the few reasons why I'm glad I wasn't around for the "glory years" is because being around Giants fans during that era would've been insufferable.

 

To their credit: they had some great teams and they had one hell of a coach in Bill Parcells.

 

How can you possibly EVER be "glad" you weren't around to witness three SB victories first hand? lol...Plus, back then there was no interwebz, so coming in contact with a Giants fan wasn't nearly as easy (unless you live in NY, of course).

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There was a definite "little brother complex" involved in many of those Giants-Redskins games back then. 

 

That seems to be the case. One of the few reasons why I'm glad I wasn't around for the "glory years" is because being around Giants fans during that era would've been insufferable.

 

To their credit: they had some great teams and they had one hell of a coach in Bill Parcells.

Back then I always had a good comeback based on final record.  Since then, I've mostly had no quality comeback.  In the first Gibbs era, we suffered only 1 losing season, won the NFC 4 times, the SB 3 times, got all the way to the NFCCG one of the times we didn't go all the way, won the NFC-E 4 times and of the 4 times those teams failed to make the playoffs, twice we won 10 games.  Even the year we had a losing season, we were still in postion to salvage the season in late November had we gone on a run (hell, it was not going on a late season streak that killed us) .  In the same period, the Giants suffered 4 losing seasons including multiple 10+ loss seasons.  Its harder to deal with fans of other teams when all you can do is sputter about winning virtually meaningless games.  I'd rather get swept by the Giants and win the SB.  I bet most Giants fans would agree (2011).  I bet most Cowboy fans would agree (1995).

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How can you possibly EVER be "glad" you weren't around to witness three SB victories first hand? lol...Plus, back then there was no interwebz, so coming in contact with a Giants fan wasn't nearly as easy (unless you live in NY, of course).

 

Only someone who wasn't there would utter such a thing!  Those who were know how priceless those moments are.

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