***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[Die Hard]

Why do people interpret an extra year on a contract and the money that comes with that year.... as something he's foregoing? That's only true if he doesn't play in 5 years. Does anyone think that in 4 years, when he's a free agent again, that he's not going to get another fat contract that will pay him $20M/year?

Essentially, he's leaving $10, maybe $15m on the table.

[Hersh]

Why do people interpret an extra year on a contract and the money that comes with that year.... as something he's foregoing? That's only true if he doesn't play in 5 years. Does anyone think that in 4 years, when he's a free agent again, that he's not going to get another fat contract that will pay him $20M/year?

Essentially, he's leaving $10, maybe $15m on the table.

 

It's always thought of in the event he gets injured and won't get another contract.

 

BTW, to me this locks up LeBron staying in the East the rest of his career. It's a far easier road in the East to get to the finals than in the West.

[Destino]

Josh Smith to the Pistons! That makes no sense. Behold the floor spacing of a Smith, Monroe, Drummond front court.

 

Detroit fans do not seem pleased if the comments on SBNation can be seen as representative of Piston fans.  http://www.detroitbadboys.com/2013/7/6/4499012/josh-smith-detroit-pistons-contract-nba-free-agency-2013?utm_source=sbnation&utm_medium=nextclicks&utm_campaign=articlebottom

Edited July 7, 2013 by Destino

[RonArtest15]

You would think that Joe Dumars would have learned his lesson after Ben Gordon and Charlie V.  I guess not.  He's as good as gone after this year, IMO. 

 

As far as Dwight, I had a feeling that he'd end up in Houston.  Just got to get some stability at the PG spot. 

[Going Commando]

Why do people interpret an extra year on a contract and the money that comes with that year.... as something he's foregoing? That's only true if he doesn't play in 5 years. Does anyone think that in 4 years, when he's a free agent again, that he's not going to get another fat contract that will pay him $20M/year?

Essentially, he's leaving $10, maybe $15m on the table.

No, it's a year lost period. And since it's on the end, it's the year with the maximum raise. Say Dwight Howard's next contract is another max deal like you assume. Let's say Houston is the one who gives it to him so he gets a five year deal. That means Dwight ends up with just nine years of max money from these two contracts instead of ten. The final year from this deal is just gone. The 7.5% built in raises from this deal are gone. In short, that 30 million is gone.

If Dwight remains a max player for his next deal, which is probably a good bet, then his next contract will be his final max deal. He wouldn't get another one at 36 or 37. So that money lost from this contract is never coming back.

Why do you think players always go for the maximum years possible on max deals?

I think people also overstate the savings in state income tax from moving to Texas. The Cali tax rate is 10.55% on income over a million dollars. That adds up to just under 12 million of the 118 million dollar deal LA offered, so he'd seemingly be down to "just" 18 million left on the table, or thereabouts. But Athletes pay state income tax in every state they play in. So if an athlete gets paid for 200 days of work but spends 50 of those days in other states, he will pay 25% of his taxes to those states at their tax rates.

So in other words, Dwight can play his 41 home games in Texas and his 8 additional games against Dallas and San Antonio and maybe the one game against Miami and pay no state income tax on those days. But in all the rest of those 32 games, he'll be paying state income tax to the states in which he participates in team activities.

And that doesn't factor in how much he'll travel in the postseason.

Dwight will probably end up losing over 20 million dollars from this decision, just in money from the contract alone. Don't forget the Lakers also offered him his own TV show and he could have made a lot more money in endorsements in LA than in Houston. He walked away from tens of millions of dollars. It's unprecedented. Dwight probably sacrificed more than any basketball player ever has to try and play for a winner. It's simultaneously a huge indictment of Mike D'Antoni and Kobe Bryant the Lakers and a huge endorsement of Kevin McHale and James Harden and the Rockets.

Dwight truly made this decision off of basketball reasons, and he's to be commended for that. I'm glad he did it. LA would have wasted the best years of his career and tainted his legacy IMO. He's potentially an awesome fit in Houston and makes them a legitimately interesting team for at least the next five years.

[Going Commando]

Bad karma are you kidding?  The Westbrook play was unfortunate and a play Westbrook attempted during the year.  So if you want to talk karma look at it that way.

 

Poison pills?  Bulls and New York could have matched but they have massive inflated contracts elsewhere so they chose not to match.  Thier loss, not mine.

 

And how did they steal a disgruntled player?  Harden?  Harden was shopped.  Dwight?  Dwight never wanted to go to LA in the first place.

 

It's funny how you say Miami and the Lakers have bad karma, yet have won multiple championships.  Maybe all this bad karma you speak of will help the Rockets win their third.

Please, the Beverly play was dirty. It was Busch league no matter what the outcome. But what makes it bad is the fact that it tore a superstar player's meniscus and it was totally unnecessary. Which is a big reason it's not usually done. Beverly had been playing dirty the whole series, this was just the most visible and unfortunate example of it.

The Arenas rule Morey exploited to sign Lin and Asik is a poison pill technique. It's an curiously problematic rule and Morey pissed off the Knicks and Bulls by doing it. The problem is that Morey got to average the cap hit out over the course of the contract instead of having it match the salary. So he's got an 8 million annual cap hit, where as the Knicks and Bulls could not have averaged the money and would have had to go 5, 5, 15. That third year made it ridiculous to match the offer. Morey made enemies doing it.

And yes, the signed away LA's disgruntled FA and left that franchise a heaping ruin in the process. It's something LA themselves did for a long, long time. Karma coming due for LA, but that doesn't mean Houston themselves isn't building up some ill will and bad karma.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Dear Lord, They are gonna play Josh Smith at the 3.

 

82 games of terrible shot jacking. Have fun Detroit. You've already gone through so much 

[Destino]

Please, the Beverly play was dirty. It was Busch league no matter what the outcome.

He knew it was bad.  I say that because when a Thunder player did the exact same thing to him in a later game, without hitting him in the knee, he took issue with it and got mad about it.  Why get bent out of shape if the play is perfectly clean?  Because it's not. 

[Going Commando]

Dear Lord, They are gonna play Josh Smith at the 3.

 

82 games of terrible shot jacking. Have fun Detroit. You've already gone through so much

That's an awful plan. If I had to bet, I'd say Smith ends up playing the four and Monroe the five and Drummond comes off the bench. That's not going to work forever though. They'll have to do something with Drummond or Monroe.

Please, the Beverly play was dirty. It was Busch league no matter what the outcome.

He knew it was bad.  I say that because when a Thunder player did the exact same thing to him in a later game, without hitting him in the knee, he took issue with it and got mad about it.  Why get bent out of shape if the play is perfectly clean?  Because it's not.

I think he did it because he was pissed at Westbrook and didn't care about getting a cheap shot in. Westbrook embarrassed him that game because Westbrook had gotten pissed at the way Beverly played him previously. So he went for a dirty play and unfortunately, it got someone seriously hurt.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Dear Lord, They are gonna play Josh Smith at the 3.

 

82 games of terrible shot jacking. Have fun Detroit. You've already gone through so much

That's an awful plan. If I had to bet, I'd say Smith ends up playing the four and Monroe the five and Drummond comes off the bench. That's not going to work forever though. They'll have to do something with Drummond or Monroe.

> 

Please, the Beverly play was dirty. It was Busch league no matter what the outcome.

He knew it was bad.  I say that because when a Thunder player did the exact same thing to him in a later game, without hitting him in the knee, he took issue with it and got mad about it.  Why get bent out of shape if the play is perfectly clean?  Because it's not.

I think he did it because he was pissed at Westbrook and didn't care about getting a cheap shot in. Westbrook embarrassed him that game because Westbrook had gotten pissed at the way Beverly played him previously. So he went for a dirty play and unfortunately, it got someone seriously hurt.

 

Their fans are suprisingly excited about it, saying they got him for cheap and minimizing his putrid shooting.

 

They'll have plenty of D but watching their offense may induce vomiting 

[Going Commando]

Shaq's got sour grapes: http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9454960/shaquille-oneal-blasts-dwight-howard-says-los-angeles-spotlight-was-too-big

It's a dumb argument. Shaq himself knows it's ridiculous, you could tell from his tone. If anything, the "spotlight" in LA was a major selling point. Dwight could have had his own TV show there and made a ton of endorsement money in LA and been a multimedia celebrity--something he supposedly wants.

What top tier star in the NBA wants to play in LA right now? Someone who knows his legacy will be measured in championships? LA is a sinking ship right now with incompetent ownership and management and coaching and everyone knows it.

Dwight left LA for Houston purely for basketball reasons because everything outside basketball was pro LA. Its really not that hard to understand, Houston was a much better situation, and it would be for any player deciding between the two teams. But particularly for Dwight. McHale is a much better coach for him. Harden is a better co-star. And the role players in Houston are a lot better than the ones in LA.

Personally, I love that Dwight put basketball ahead of everything and is dedicated to maximizing his potential. If anyone can get him to achieve his immense ceiling, It's McHale and Hakeem. I can't wait to see how good Dwight gets. This is the kind of move that could put him back on track for the HoF.

I think Shaq's salty because the Lakers came out of this looking really bad and Dwight chose to follow in Hakeem's footsteps instead of his own.

[Parlett316]

Bad karma are you kidding?  The Westbrook play was unfortunate and a play Westbrook attempted during the year.  So if you want to talk karma look at it that way.

 

Poison pills?  Bulls and New York could have matched but they have massive inflated contracts elsewhere so they chose not to match.  Thier loss, not mine.

 

And how did they steal a disgruntled player?  Harden?  Harden was shopped.  Dwight?  Dwight never wanted to go to LA in the first place.

 

It's funny how you say Miami and the Lakers have bad karma, yet have won multiple championships.  Maybe all this bad karma you speak of will help the Rockets win their third.

Please, the Beverly play was dirty. It was Busch league no matter what the outcome. But what makes it bad is the fact that it tore a superstar player's meniscus and it was totally unnecessary. Which is a big reason it's not usually done. Beverly had been playing dirty the whole series, this was just the most visible and unfortunate example of it.

The Arenas rule Morey exploited to sign Lin and Asik is a poison pill technique. It's an curiously problematic rule and Morey pissed off the Knicks and Bulls by doing it. The problem is that Morey got to average the cap hit out over the course of the contract instead of having it match the salary. So he's got an 8 million annual cap hit, where as the Knicks and Bulls could not have averaged the money and would have had to go 5, 5, 15. That third year made it ridiculous to match the offer. Morey made enemies doing it.

And yes, the signed away LA's disgruntled FA and left that franchise a heaping ruin in the process. It's something LA themselves did for a long, long time. Karma coming due for LA, but that doesn't mean Houston themselves isn't building up some ill will and bad karma.

 

Lin crosses half court to call time, Westbrook does the same thing Beverly does:

 

But Lin isn't a superstar so it's cool right?

 

If there is an outrage on poison pill contracts than the owners will sew that up, not Morey's fault for taking advantage, just like when we structured a weird contract around Chad Morton back in the day.  New York and Chicago could have kept their guys then flipped them before the last year, they chose not to.  All us fans need to care about is the 8/8/8 deal, ownership can worry about the 5/5/15.

 

Every team has this bad karma you speak of but really happens?  Championships or atleast Finals appearances.  After 15 years of only hitting the second round once, I'll roll the dice.

[Destino]

Same thing really?  

 

 

Listen to the whistle as it relates to when Beverly makes contact with Westbrook.  Now watch that Jeremy Lin video again.  You really want to argue that's the same thing?  Just look at Beverly's reaction... 

 

And if you think it's clean, why doesn't Beverly?  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdXtTJakI6k

 

He seems to think the play is worth throwing an elbow and getting T'd up.  

Edited July 8, 2013 by Destino

[Parlett316]

You can hear the announcers, not a dirty play.

[Destino]

You can hear the announcers, not a dirty play.

 

The players seem to disagree with the announcers.  Westbrook was clearly mad and Beverly was throwing elbows over it.  Wouldn't be the first time announcers were wrong.  

[PeterMP]

You can hear the announcers, not a dirty play.

 

The players seem to disagree with the announcers.  Westbrook was clearly mad and Beverly was throwing elbows over it.  Wouldn't be the first time announcers were wrong.  

The difference between the play that Westbrook got hurt on and the attempted pick of Lin by Westbrook certainly seem to be negligible.

 

Westbrook times it a little bit better, but it also seems like the ref is quick to give him the TO from the view you posted.  I can't see the TO signal and it seems like the ref in that you see in the video isn't likely to see it either, which makes me wonder where it came from or the ref granted it w/o ever seeing the TO signal.

 

But there certainly isn't a big difference between the plays.

 

It does seem if Westbrook doesn't think it is a dirty play and he can do it on others, like Lin, then he should be fair game too.

Edited July 8, 2013 by PeterMP

[DM72]

Am I the only one getting sick of all these ex-Lakers talking negatively about Howard because he left?

[Bubble Screen]

Am I the only one getting sick of all these ex-Lakers talking negatively about Howard because he left?

Probably. He deserves all the bad press. He's a prick.

With that said, I do think he made the right decision to go to Houston. It was the best fit for him. He isn't cut out to play in a large market. He's too thin-skinned.

Houston still isn't going to win anything with Howard. At least not with their current roster. Lin is a joke,

[DM72]

Why do people keep acting like Houston is this small town? Last checked, it's the 4th largest city in the US.

Edited July 9, 2013 by DM72

[Bubble Screen]

Why do people keep acting like Houston is this small town? Last checked, it's the 4th largest city in the US.

It is, yes. But its no comparison to LA, in any way. There is little pressure at all playing in Houston. That was the point I was getting at.

[DM72]

When you sign a big contract, I think there's gonna be pressure to win. You don't think Durant and Westbrook gone have some pressure to win next year? Honestly, their won't be any pressure on the Lakers to win next year.

[Parlett316]

It's going to be funny when the Lakers miss out on Lebron and Melo.  I wonder how many years it's going to take for people to realize that Jim Buss is not Jerry.

 

Edit:

Here's a good article on how the Rockets transformed their roster Post Yao to today without top 5 picks like a certain team that is close to us.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Parlett316

[Destino]

Who was the last superstar free agent to go to the Lakers? Shaq in 96? Who was the last upper star that forced a trade to LA specifically? I don't know. Why is everyone operating under the assumption that all players want to play for the lakers? The media thinks so but they also think the players have been lining up to play for the Knicks.

Seems to me guys are more interested in situations than they are cities. The Lakers situation isn't pretty.

[Going Commando]

Who was the last superstar free agent to go to the Lakers? Shaq in 96? Who was the last upper star that forced a trade to LA specifically? I don't know. Why is everyone operating under the assumption that all players want to play for the lakers? The media thinks so but they also think the players have been lining up to play for the Knicks.

Seems to me guys are more interested in situations than they are cities. The Lakers situation isn't pretty.

I think that's definitely the case. Market size doesn't matter nearly as much any more. The second most important and famous basketball player plays in Oklahoma City and one of the most famous and powerful athletes in the world plays in one of the most far flung markets in the NBA down in Miami. Playing in those markets hasn't hurt their brand. And winning is what ultimately strengthens your brand any how.

The city itself isn't nearly as big a deal as the coach and the roster and the FO. First off, a ton of the season is spent traveling and then they live where ever they want in the offseason. KG plays in Boston and lives in LA. Players want to play with teammates they like and for coaches they respect and for teams that they can win with. Players want to compete for rings. It truly is that simple. All that other talk about Dwight fleeing the spotlight because he couldn't handle the responsibility of playing in LA is just pure dumb butthurtness. Dwight didn't like playing with Kobe and didn't like playing for D'Antoni. Dwight new they were headed down and the Rockets were headed up. It's pretty obvious.

And the Lakers getting Melo or LeBron is an absolute pipe dream. The Lakers are now irrelevant. They need to get real and form a realistic plan to rebuild or else they're going to be irrelevant for a long time.

Also, can this little saga finally put to rest the argument that Kobe is a ****ty teammate? Dwight turned down tens of millions of dollars to go play for a team that actually has worse players on it. If Kobe is as good a teammate as James Harden, Dwight leaving LA would never have even gotten off the ground.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Am I the only one getting sick of all these ex-Lakers talking negatively about Howard because he left?

 

When Dwight tries to pull **** like this, they can talk negatively about him all they want.

 

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/9468452/dwight-howard-wanted-end-kobe-bryant-era-los-angeles-lakers

 

He tried to get the Lakers management to amnesty Kobe, Dwight said it was either him or Kobe.