RonArtest15

***2019-2020 NBA Season Thread***

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Curry is absolutely ridiculous with his shots.

 

Feet aren't set, body not facing the rim, still strokes the three like a free throw.  It's a thing of beauty.

 

That man catches fire early in a game, GS will win by 20.

 

If he doesn't, they'll continue to lose.  They have no answer for the inside game / drive and dish.

 

I would like to see more pick and rolls by Cleveland - really showcase their size and athleticism.

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The series are long enough that the right team almost always wins.  This isn't baseball.

 

More precise to say "threes and free throws only offense works until the postseason when teams actually play defense."

 

No, I think the sabremetrics/analytics still are correct and work out over a larger sample size like the regular season but even a seven game series is short in comparison, and a couple blips of bad shooting can completely change the outcome of the series. You obviously wouldn't see that damning of a result during the regular season to a brief cold streak. 

 

Once you get into a 7 game series all those stats go out the window simply because one individual or one single shot even can have such a profound impact on the result. 

Edited by Momma There Goes That Man

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Anyone else feel like this series is becoming a referendum on sabremetric-driven basketball? I feel like the most die-hard advocates of advanced analytics are praying Golden State bounces back and wins to validate the outside-in, small ball, free throws and threes style of offense. That has been crammed down my throat as the ONLY way to play modern basketball.

Next time someone on RealGM tells me that the mid range jumper is the worst shot in basketball, I'm going to say ask Draymond Green if he agrees. That statement, always presented as a self-evident law of basketball, is so lacking in context that it's nonsense.

On second thought, I hope the analytics crowd is right and that Golden State snaps back and destroys Cleveland's cave man system in convincing fashion. I can't stand the thought of Randy Wittman being validated.

 

You are a man in conflict

Edited by Mr. Sinister

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If Iggy doesn't throw a rebounded ball between Curry's legs and out of bounds late in game 2, its 2-1 Warriors. That's an example of how close this series is. 

 

I don't think it's a referendum on anything like statistics or trends, simply the players on the court. 

Edited by Momma There Goes That Man

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Another thought.

 

After the previous game, I said the GS should double Lebron early.  Get the ball out of his hand, and I heard one of the announcers say it late in last nights game.

 

I don't think you can do that any more and not after the half in last nights game.  The other Cavs are playing with too much confidence.

 

Delly thinks he's going to go some where else and be an All Star PG.

 

Mozov thinks he is an All Star and the people in Denver just didn't know how to use a true 5.

 

Thompson thinks if Rodman can make it into the HoF so can he.  He can guard all 5 and out rebound anybody.

 

JR Smith thinks the only reason he isn't at least 6 man of the year every year is because those other coaches and refs didn't get him or like him.

 

Shumpert thinks the only reason he isn't first team all defense every year is that it is really only a popularity contest.

 

Jumaine Jones thinks he can play until he's 40.

 

Mike Miller thinks he can play until he's 50.  He might need a knee replacement somewhere along the line, but that isn't a big deal.

 

Next game needs to be tough man-to-man at least for the first half.  Stay with your man.  Box out.  If you can, dominate your man on the offensive and defensive end.

 

If Lebron goes off on somebody and scores 40 points in the first half, you live with it, but everybody else has to be brought back to reality.

 

In terms of this being a referendum on modern/sabermetric basketball, I'll essentially say the same thing I said before to a similar comment.

 

Nobody supporting the changes in basketball has ever thought that getting nothing out of your 5 on offense was good.

 

Nobody that believes in 3s and FTs would tell you than Bogut is a good player for that system or even Lee.

 

And there's nothing sabermetrically wrong with scoring in the paint.  A good big man surrounded by 3 pt. shooters is a good approach sabermetrically.

 

And clearly having the best player on the planet helps (and realistically, Curry might be MVP, but James is still the best player.). 

Edited by PeterMP

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If Curry doesn't foul Delly last night, and have 2 turnovers at the end of the game ( One a foul, and the other just a bad play), This series is a lot closer than I expected based on depth...nothing else.

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Obviously there is nothing wrong with shooting threes and free throws.  Or even emphasizing them.  The problem is in only shooting threes and driving it to the rim to get FTs.  That is severely limiting and needlessly so.  But that is what analytics-driven organizations preach.  It's to the point of totally de-emphasizing the mid range game and acquiring a roster full of players with almost no intermediate scoring ability.

 

Playoff defense can defend a two dimensional offense.  Especially because whistles are so loose that the FTs part of the offense becomes much, much more difficult to get.

 

I think you would be surprised at how many people from the analytics crowd simply do not accept that an open mid range jumper is better than a contested shot around the basket or a contested three.  Teams must have the option to hit open 16-18 footers in their offense in order to score against a legitimate defense.  Right now, we're seeing that Golden State simply doesn't have any intermediate scoring outside Klay Thompson (and David Lee, who has been on the bench), and they can't score.  They scored just 45 and 37 points in the first halves of games two and three.  They took almost, what, 30 minutes to crack 50 points?  It took an unbelievable shooting performance from the greatest long range shooter in league history just to hit 91 points.  Their offense is broken.

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i've never seen the game without a 3 point shot... but it SEEMS like it would be vastly more interesting

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Their offense is broken.

 

I'd argue that their offense isn't broken because they can't hit a mid range jump shot at least not directly.  I suspect Curry can hit an open mid range jump shot, and if he got any, he'd take them.  He isn't getting any.

 

I'd argue their offense is broken because they have some guys that aren't giving them anything on offense and the Cavs are at best are playing token defense on those guys and focusing on others.

 

Bogut isn't giving them any thing on offense.  Even on pick and rolls when he rolls to the basket, the Cavs are hardly bothering to guard him.

 

As long as that continues to happen (which seems likely as long as he plays major minutes), it is going to be hard to score from any where.

 

It doesn't matter if your pick is at the 3 pt line or inside the line where you could imagine the player coming off the pick hitting a long 2.  If both defenders involved in the pick and roll ignore the picker and double the ball, and you can't make them pay for that, you aren't going to score much.

 

Now, if Bogut were to pick and pop and start making that shot, then you could argue a mid range jump shot fixed their offense (but I'd argue it would be better if instead of popping for mid range 2, it would be better if he could pop for a 3 pt. shot).  But I don't expect that too happen (for a mid range 2 or a 3).

i've never seen the game without a 3 point shot... but it SEEMS like it would be vastly more interesting

Why?

 

**EDIT**

I expect the real biggest issue with the GS offense is the inability to get out and run and play with any pace.  They are essentially getting nothing off fast breaks or lose ball situations.

 

But that's historically been a difference between play off a non-play off basketball, and the way the Cavs are playing is especially exasperating the situation.

 

And one thing I said after last game that is still true, I'd like to see them at least some times, especially when they are small, to pick up full court on defense.

 

See if they can't speed the game up.

Edited by PeterMP

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i've never seen the game without a 3 point shot... but it SEEMS like it would be vastly more interesting

 

No way that I am older than you...

 

Actually it is not. It is not rewarding guys that can drop those 3's, and makes the shooting overall poorer.

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Ok guys call it right now. Do the Cavs win this thing?

 

At first I was like hell no, but this is starting to remind me of that scene in The Two Towers, when Aragorn looks to the East, and Gandalf and the Rohirrim charge the Orcs in a blinding light, making them lose their nerve.

 

Cleveland is running on some special sauce. They have no business being up 2-1, yet here they are. Everything is on the table.

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Ok guys call it right now. Do the Cavs win this thing?

I'm too afraid to call it. My head says Warriors but my gut says Cavs. Mainly, I'm tired of being wrong about Golden State in this series.

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I look at it like this. GS had better approach Game 4 like its a do or die Game 7. If they go down 3-1 there is just too much momentum and emotion and history and inspiration on the Cavs side. Never underestimate the effect that can have on a team.

 

If GS loses another nailbiter tomorrow, this series is over.

 

GS may push it to 6 or maybe 7, but I don't see them winning 3 in a row

Edited by Mr. Sinister

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Still on my original.

 

Dubs in 6.

 

Same here, I had Warriors in 6. No exactly how I thought the Cavs would get their 2 wins, but I still have faith in the Warriors to get this figured out and start rolling. Seems similar to the Memphis series.

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Same here, I had Warriors in 6. No exactly how I thought the Cavs would get their 2 wins, but I still have faith in the Warriors to get this figured out and start rolling. Seems similar to the Memphis series.

 

Yeah, very similar.

 

I can see 3 in a row from the Warriors, I can't see 3 in a row from the Cavs.

When Irving went down I almost considered going with 5, it just seemed unlikely.

One plus of Cleveland winning is not seeing Curry's daughter at every press conference. Once was cute. Now it's annoying. Hey look...a child....how unique

 

You'll just have LeBron's son there instead.

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One plus of Cleveland winning is not seeing Curry's daughter at every press conference. Once was cute. Now it's annoying. Hey look...a child....how unique

Yeah I hate how kids can be so annoying by existing where I can see them.

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I have no idea. I feel like the Cavs have played 3 great games and the Warriors have played maybe 3 good quarters. Eventually the Warriors have to put something together right?

I do think eventually depth and exhaustion comes into play so of the Cavs want to win they need to wrap this up quick. The longer it goes, the more it favors the deeper Warriors but I can also see that as part of the Cavaliers ESPY story next year celebrating their victory.

So again, I have no idea.

Yeah I hate how kids can be so annoying by existing where I can see them.

The nerve

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One plus of Cleveland winning is not seeing Curry's daughter at every press conference. Once was cute. Now it's annoying. Hey look...a child....how unique

It doesn't bother me. She's a little kid having the time of her life.

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This interview with John Thompson on ESPN 980 is amazing. Going off on the young kids today chest bumping before the game is over. Called Michael Jordan a thug. Doesn't understand "that rapper music". 

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