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Would you trade Fred Davis to Patriots for a 3rd or 4th round pick?


Execution56

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This scenario seems a little premature. 

 

I suspect no one is going to decide about Fred Davis' value, until they see how well he's come back from his injury.  

 

Okay, Fred was a big part of the Skins offense, and he's well-versed in the schemes and terminology.  He was an offensive threat -- last year.  ....But no one has seen him yet in game conditions this year, and it remains to be seen what's he's like now.

 

If he's as good as he was the last couple of years, the Skins should try to extend his contract, and reject trade offers.  But if the Skins get the sense Davis doesn't want to sign with them, in order to test the free agent market in 2014 -- maybe the Skins see what they might get for him (either in picks or a player.)

 

The bigger decision would be if Fred doesn't look good in pre-season.  I suspect some teams might still be willing to stash him on their roster and wait to see if Davis regains his old form.  But would the Redskins be that patient?

 

I don't think we need to bash the OP, for suggesting something that will be a growing issue for the Skins -- as they get better and deeper, the Skins might need to trade quality players on their roster, before their skills and trade value erode.  This team now seems to draft well, and find good pieces to help their team -- trades of players who's salaries are going up, while their skills are starting to go down -- may become an important tactic for the Skins to become perennial playoff contenders.

 

How many teams trade the kind of players your talking about?

 

That's what always seems to get lost in threads like these. It's a Madden mentality. Trades for players are far more rare than people act, and usually those players are at the bottom of the depth chart. And what reasonable compensation are you going to get for a guy coming off two short seasons, one of which he was suspended for four games, and the other in which he suffered an injury that history dictates is pretty hard to come back from?

 

 

 

People act like trades like this happen all the time. Truth of the matter is, they don't. Most teams are simply willing to let a guy play out his contract, make an offer accordingly, and let the circumstances play out.

 

 

In the here and now, Fred Davis helps our football team, he seems to have some chemistry with our franchise quarterback, and if he stays off the grass and healthy then he can be one of the better young tight ends in the game. He's 27 and just hitting his prime. What is so bad about letting him play out his contract and seeing what he is?

 

 

 

And this is still ignoring the fact that the Patriots never ever make trades like this, and they have 5 tight ends on their roster besides Gronk and Hernandez.

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Why would we want to trade Davis to the Patriots? Why do we want to help the Patriots by giving them a top flight TE? So who replaces Davis at TE? Niles Paul, Logan Paulsen, or Reed Jordan? Niles Paul hasn't proved he is a reliable receiver and neither has Paulsen. Reed Jordan is a rookie and no one knows what we will get from him. So why give up our best TE?

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We gave a 3rd round pick for Reed so we should get a 1st for Davis or forget it.

RG3 has not had the luxury of having tight end depth and save getting hit by dumping ball off.

Brady will have a rough year it looks like unless we help him.

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"Brady will have a rough year:"

:lol:

 

 

really,, lets view this through the scope of reality.

Namely, The Pats have transformed how the tight end is used in just 2 short years.

if suddenly they were deprived of the two they've had, they'll still make it work.

I promise you, Rob Gronkowski didn't just come along to be great. he wasn't going to do anything like he's done if he got drafted by the Raiders or the Eagles or anyone else.

 

Anyone really doubt that?

 

 

IF they did call.. we'd be foolish to not listen.  IF they made a solid offer, we'd be foolish to not consider it.

 

~Bang

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"Brady will have a rough year:"

:lol:

really,, lets view this through the scope of reality.

Namely, The Pats have transformed how the tight end is used in just 2 short years.

if suddenly they were deprived of the two they've had, they'll still make it work.

I promise you, Rob Gronkowski didn't just come along to be great. he wasn't going to do anything like he's done if he got drafted by the Raiders or the Eagles or anyone else.

Anyone really doubt that?

IF they did call.. we'd be foolish to not listen. IF they made a solid offer, we'd be foolish to not consider it.

~Bang

Thank you, Bang for bringing some reality to this thread. Some people act as if Davis is a top notch TE with no history of red flags and that is a key part to our offense that we can't win without. Sometimes, it is okay to take off the B&G glasses before typing.
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IF they did call.. we'd be foolish to not listen.  IF they made a solid offer, we'd be foolish to not consider it.

 

~Bang

 

Right, but what qualifies as a solid offer?  If Robert Kraft or Belichick call, you at least listen, but at what point do you start considering the offer?  The OP thinks a 3rd or 4th.

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"Brady will have a rough year:"

:lol:

really,, lets view this through the scope of reality.

Namely, The Pats have transformed how the tight end is used in just 2 short years.

if suddenly they were deprived of the two they've had, they'll still make it work.

I promise you, Rob Gronkowski didn't just come along to be great. he wasn't going to do anything like he's done if he got drafted by the Raiders or the Eagles or anyone else.

Anyone really doubt that?

IF they did call.. we'd be foolish to not listen. IF they made a solid offer, we'd be foolish to not consider it.

~Bang

Thank you, Bang for bringing some reality to this thread. Some people act as if Davis is a top notch TE with no history of red flags and that is a key part to our offense that we can't win without. Sometimes, it is okay to take off the B&G glasses before typing.

 

 

So Bill Belichick, who's going through issues with one party boy tight end on his fifth surgery, and another tight end that could wind up being a suspect in a murder, is going to give up value to take a chance on an injured tight end who certain posters constantly remind everyone else is one suspension away from being out of football for a year and represented himself in a court case against an alleged madam whom he threw a drink in the face of?

 

 

And people that like Fred are the delusional ones?

 

 

Sense, this does not make.

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Mainly this is in response to NLC 1054: 

 

The primary theme of my post was that it's premature to consider trade talk about Davis.  It's also too early to claim that Davis will be a key part of the Redskins 2013 offense, and that no offers should be entertained.  If he's as good as he was, I doubl the Skins want to part with him. 

 

But, no one is certain just what kind of player Fred Davis has become after his injury.  A ruptured achilles is a serious injury and some players do not regain their pre-injury levels of skills.  (Remember Jansen?)  I hope Davis is still as good as he was, because he'd widen the array of options for Griffin III,  And while I want to believe what's been tossed out by Davis and his agent, the pre-season contests will help clarify what the situation really is. 

 

 

My other comment was more hypothetical.  It was about the possiblity of the Redskins getting to a stage where they could entertain trade offers for some of their players, -- and frankly it was more of a testimony to the depth of competition being built in for this team. I can't help but think that Shanahan, who's dabbled before in the trade market in the past, might not do so again, as an alternative to letting his talented players walk without any compensation. Once Shanahan is satisfied with the level of continuity established through the ranks, it's possible the Redskins may start entertaining offers for some of their front-line players,... assuming they like what they have at second string.

 

 

I"m very much aware that NFL teams efforts to acquire talent rely more on free agency and the waiver-wire..  But trades still do occur -- usually players for draft picks,  Recently Carson Palmer, Alex Smith, Darrelle Revis, etc were traded for picks.  However, I'd note that LaGarrette Blount, and Javier Arenas (KC's CB) were traded for players and picks.  Not all trades are for low-tier players either.  There are lots of reasons why trades happen.  Maybe the Redskins might wind up in a situation where a trade is a valid option.

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"Brady will have a rough year:"

:lol:

really,, lets view this through the scope of reality.

Namely, The Pats have transformed how the tight end is used in just 2 short years.

if suddenly they were deprived of the two they've had, they'll still make it work.

I promise you, Rob Gronkowski didn't just come along to be great. he wasn't going to do anything like he's done if he got drafted by the Raiders or the Eagles or anyone else.

Anyone really doubt that?

IF they did call.. we'd be foolish to not listen. IF they made a solid offer, we'd be foolish to not consider it.

~Bang

Thank you, Bang for bringing some reality to this thread. Some people act as if Davis is a top notch TE with no history of red flags and that is a key part to our offense that we can't win without. Sometimes, it is okay to take off the B&G glasses before typing.

 

 

So Bill Belichick, who's going through issues with one party boy tight end on his fifth surgery, and another tight end that could wind up being a suspect in a murder, is going to give up value to take a chance on an injured tight end who certain posters constantly remind everyone else is one suspension away from being out of football for a year and represented himself in a court case against an alleged madam whom he threw a drink in the face of?

 

 

And people that like Fred are the delusional ones?

 

 

Sense, this does not make.

Well, the entire situation is a hypothetical "what if".

 

and my response is IF they call, we'd be fools not to listen, and IF they presented a solid offer, we'd be fools not to consider it.

 

the OP thinks a 3rd or 4th is a solid offer, i don't agree. 

IF they did call, that means they have definite need, and then the ante as to what he's worth rises. At this point, he's worth more than a 3rd to us and definitely worth more than a 4th regardless of the other team's situation.

 

What does not make sense, however is this notion among some of the posts on this thread that Fred is an indispensable part of our Super Bowl puzzle, to which i have to disagree. he MIGHT be a piece, but very very few players are indispensable.,and as i said before, last year without him we managed to win the division and win 10 games. I am not convinced that the difference between that and a Super Bowl is a tight end. 

 

~Bang

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Mainly this is in response to NLC 1054: 

 

The primary theme of my post was that it's premature to consider trade talk about Davis.  It's also too early to claim that Davis will be a key part of the Redskins 2013 offense, and that no offers should be entertained.  If he's as good as he was, I doubl the Skins want to part with him. 

 

But, no one is certain just what kind of player Fred Davis has become after his injury.  A ruptured achilles is a serious injury and some players do not regain their pre-injury levels of skills.  (Remember Jansen?)  I hope Davis is still as good as he was, because he'd widen the array of options for Griffin III,  And while I want to believe what's been tossed out by Davis and his agent, the pre-season contests will help clarify what the situation really is. 

 

 

My other comment was more hypothetical.  It was about the possiblity of the Redskins getting to a stage where they could entertain trade offers for some of their players, -- and frankly it was more of a testimony to the depth of competition being built in for this team. I can't help but think that Shanahan, who's dabbled before in the trade market in the past, might not do so again, as an alternative to letting his talented players walk without any compensation. Once Shanahan is satisfied with the level of continuity established through the ranks, it's possible the Redskins may start entertaining offers for some of their front-line players,... assuming they like what they have at second string.

 

 

I"m very much aware that NFL teams efforts to acquire talent rely more on free agency and the waiver-wire..  But trades still do occur -- usually players for draft picks,  Recently Carson Palmer, Alex Smith, Darrelle Revis, etc were traded for picks.  However, I'd note that LaGarrette Blount, and Javier Arenas (KC's CB) were traded for players and picks.  Not all trades are for low-tier players either.  There are lots of reasons why trades happen.  Maybe the Redskins might wind up in a situation where a trade is a valid option.

 

The Raiders trade for Carson Palmer mainly occured because, in the immediate wake of Al Davis' death, there was a HUGE power chasm left. For all intents and purposes, Hugh Jackson was the general manager, and he made a big, dumb trade because he was panicked at the prospect of having Kyle Boller and Terrelle Pryor ruin their playoff run.

 

 

Darrelle Revis got traded because his relationship with Woody Johnson deteriorated because of his constant demands for more money and Woody Johnson sort of being a tool.

 

 

Alex Smith was traded because the 49ers had what they feel is a better quarterback in Colin Kaepernick that deserved to play, and to be fair to Alex they traded him to a team that had a gaping bloody wound at quarterback. 

 

Those kind of trades are the exceptions, not the norm. 

 

 

The main players that Mike Shanahan has turned around and flipped for picks have been running backs. But in general, Mike has been fairly consistent in maintaing that continuity is important.

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"Brady will have a rough year:"

:lol:

really,, lets view this through the scope of reality.

Namely, The Pats have transformed how the tight end is used in just 2 short years.

if suddenly they were deprived of the two they've had, they'll still make it work.

I promise you, Rob Gronkowski didn't just come along to be great. he wasn't going to do anything like he's done if he got drafted by the Raiders or the Eagles or anyone else.

Anyone really doubt that?

IF they did call.. we'd be foolish to not listen. IF they made a solid offer, we'd be foolish to not consider it.

~Bang

Thank you, Bang for bringing some reality to this thread. Some people act as if Davis is a top notch TE with no history of red flags and that is a key part to our offense that we can't win without. Sometimes, it is okay to take off the B&G glasses before typing.

 

 

So Bill Belichick, who's going through issues with one party boy tight end on his fifth surgery, and another tight end that could wind up being a suspect in a murder, is going to give up value to take a chance on an injured tight end who certain posters constantly remind everyone else is one suspension away from being out of football for a year and represented himself in a court case against an alleged madam whom he threw a drink in the face of?

 

 

And people that like Fred are the delusional ones?

 

 

Sense, this does not make.

Well, the entire situation is a hypothetical "what if".

 

and my response is IF they call, we'd be fools not to listen, and IF they presented a solid offer, we'd be fools not to consider it.

 

the OP thinks a 3rd or 4th is a solid offer, i don't agree. 

IF they did call, that means they have definite need, and then the ante as to what he's worth rises. At this point, he's worth more than a 3rd to us and definitely worth more than a 4th regardless of the other team's situation.

 

What does not make sense, however is this notion among some of the posts on this thread that Fred is an indispensable part of our Super Bowl puzzle, to which i have to disagree. he MIGHT be a piece, but very very few players are indispensable.,and as i said before, last year without him we managed to win the division and win 10 games. I am not convinced that the difference between that and a Super Bowl is a tight end. 

 

~Bang

 

I guess my beef is that the hypothetical is flawed, based on little historical precedent or research, and seems more like a knee jerk reaction than a well thought out concept.

 

 

 

Is Fred the difference between winning a Super Bowl or not getting there? I don't know. What I do know is that I want as much talent around our franchise quarterback as possible, for as long as possible. I know that Fred was leading the team in receptions and was targeted a lot by RGIII before he got hurt. I know that having Fred on the field makes our team better.

 

 

Yes, we won 10 games even with Fred Davis hurt. But the objective of every season is to be better than what you were last season, and to put more talent around the quarterback. I'm far more interested in Robert Griffin III getting better this season than I am with helping Tom Brady.

 

 

Every time we get a little depth at a position and a team suffers an injury, someone has to make a "should we trade so and so to this team for peanuts?" thread. Vinny ****ed up the draft for so long that people are obsessed with acquiring more and more draft picks, even when it makes no sense. I said it earlier that it's the mindset of a team used to losing --- always thinking about next year, because they've been conditioned to think the current season is a wash before it starts. Even with RGIII here. 

 

 

Is Fred Davis the key to winning a Super Bowl? Maybe, maybe not. But I like our odds more with him and the rest of our offense healthy, than I do with him catching passes from Brady. Maybe that makes me crazy, but oh well.

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Well, i never called you crazy :)

we're just shooting the breeze on a completely made up situation.

 

if it came up, the deal would have to be right. Like i said,, we like Fred, and as you say we'll be better with him.. which means if they do come calling, they better bring a sweet offer to pry him loose.

 

~Bang

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Not a chance. We' ve all endured and the growing pains process. It would be insane to trade a possible integral part of our offense. We saw the difference when Davis.went down. RGIII and him had a better connection before Garçon was able too. I know we just drafted the possible hybrid kid out of UF. But why take he time to try and develop another TE. By the time this season starts Davis should be 100%. He's entering a contract year. The guy really only has two options, boom or bust. If the rookie from UF can over take him then so be it. But we all know what Davis is capable when he plays. Why give away a known producer in the hopes if acquiring something. Give me last year's original starting roster. Meaning a healthy Meriweather, Garçon,Davis, Rak, RGIII, and Carriker. And i'll take us for no less than conference championship.

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I've already made my points about the fact that it's premature to divine how well Davis will play in 2013 or where he'd be playing.

 

As for my back-and-forth with NLC 1054 I don't want to this to become a thread about trades.  But when someone implies that my thinking is guided by a videogame that I don't play -- I feel it worth commenting a few times.  However, I'll sign off on the back-and-forth about trades after this one.   

 

Here's four more names of folks who are traded:  Percy Harvin, Anquan Boldin, Colt McCoy, Arrelious Benn -- these were all starters at one point. Others traded are Matt Flynn, Chris Ivory, and Chicago's 1st round ( bust?) Gabe Carimi  .... And that's this year.  (By the way, the Palmer trade I was talking about was THIS year's trade from the Raiders to the Cardinals in a salary dumping move, not the 2011 trade where the Raiders gave up  a #1 and #2 pick to the Bengals.)

 

Frankly, the scenario surrounding the Raven's trade of Anquan Boldin  intrigues me the most -- the Ravens couldn't/wouldn't offer Boldin the money he wanted and so he wasn't going to stay with them once his contract ran out.  They took what they could get for him, before he could walk.  Raven's were lucky to have a brother connection on this, or they might have wound up with nothing.  I suspect prudent GMs are going to try to gauge a player's interest in contract extensions earlier on -- to know what direction to go in a player's option year.

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Well, i never called you crazy :)

we're just shooting the breeze on a completely made up situation.

 

if it came up, the deal would have to be right. Like i said,, we like Fred, and as you say we'll be better with him.. which means if they do come calling, they better bring a sweet offer to pry him loose.

 

~Bang

The entire conversation is absurd. We know his value to the team, because of when we lost him. So what's the value, you'd like to get to compensate that this year, without having a back up to his position? (and no, I like Logan, but he, a rookie coming off injury and a man with hands the size of a child are not back ups to the same type of position Davis plays for us) and is there any chance, that anybody will take a shot at trading a pick that high, for a player coming off a major injury, with a drug history and on a one year deal? None of this is even a remote possibilty right now. Yes, if the Pats offered us a first or second, we trade him, especially if we are having this conversation in the preseason and Davis looks like he has lost a big step and Reed actually comes on or Paul had a successful hand enlargement surgery. This is still about as real as an air conditioned unicorn.

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Yes. In a heartbeat. Even if he comes back 100%, he's done here. He'll go to where the money is better.

 

You know what they say about people who assume things...

Yeah man, I don't get that mind set. If we offered him a contract last year (and I don't think we did), it would have been to a guy we don't know will be healthy and if we did and he turned it down, it's probably because he was having an insanely good season before the injury and wants something fair.

 

Both sides took a wait and see approach and he got tagged for the year. I don't see how that makes him greedy.

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I am reminded of the time people wanted to trade Chris Cooley... and they were absolutely right. We may not have a Fred Davis prospect (Reed is not the prospect Davis was.) waiting in the winds, but Davis is coming back from an injury that sees few athletes back to their former glory. That, on top of the drug and contract issues that have been talked about, would make it seem foolish to not entertain serious offers should they present themselves.

 

That being said, I would rather take a chance on Davis over a 3rd or 4th round pick.

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I am reminded of the time people wanted to trade Chris Cooley... and they were absolutely right. We may not have a Fred Davis prospect (Reed is not the prospect Davis was.) waiting in the winds, but Davis is coming back from an injury that sees few athletes back to their former glory. That, on top of the drug and contract issues that have been talked about, would make it seem foolish to not entertain serious offers should they present themselves.

That's fine. I'm not opposed to serious offers. Nobody is. But Cooley was much older when we were having that conversation.

 

What do you honestly think Davis value for a draft pick is right now and is it worth having the hole on our offense?

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I am reminded of the time people wanted to trade Chris Cooley... and they were absolutely right. We may not have a Fred Davis prospect (Reed is not the prospect Davis was.) waiting in the winds, but Davis is coming back from an injury that sees few athletes back to their former glory. That, on top of the drug and contract issues that have been talked about, would make it seem foolish to not entertain serious offers should they present themselves.

That's fine. I'm not opposed to serious offers. Nobody is. But Cooley was much older when we were having that conversation.

 

What do you honestly think Davis value for a draft pick is right now and is it worth having the hole on our offense?

Depending on what we get, yes. Though, I doubt anybody is dumb enough to give up very much for Davis. Also, Cooley was not "much older." He is only 30 right now. He was right around Davis' current age when the trade threads started appearing.

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No. 

 

I'd listen for a 1st or multiple mid-round picks involving at least one 2nd rounder.

 

But check it out Execution56... Our window is open.  We are competing for a championship now.  Sure a pick would be great for next year and Fred may or may not be on the team next year, but he is this year and we are a much more dynamic team with him.

 

So an offer we can't refuse aside (which we won't get from the Pats) the answer is absolutely not.

This is such an important point, I don't think it can be emphasized enough.  This isn't a rebuilding team like years past.  We're finally in a position where any year could be our year, and thus it would be foolish to decrease our chances in any given season for anything less than a major haul in future years.  

 

Yes there is the possibility Fred Davis walks for big money after 2013.  However with our salary cap we should be able to retain him if we feel he is worth it and if not we could be awarded compensatory picks in the future.  His presence on this team even with the possibility of leaving after this season is more valuable than a third or fourth round pick in 2014.

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