HTTR24-7 : Is the locker room strong enough to risk drafting Tyrann Mathieu?

[mistertim]

I think this is a great point. Shanahan has done an outstanding job picking safe but sure players in the draft to rebuild this team from essentially scratch. He took virtually no risks knowing full well we needed as much quality depth on this roster as possible, which is a big reason why we exclusively picked seniors and team captains.

I dunno...Trent was something of a risk. Extremely athletic for his size but only had one year of college experience at LT and, IIRC, there were definitely some questions about his work ethic. Okung was the safe pick at that spot but Shanahan seemingly went with his gut and took the guy with a lower floor but higher ceiling. Luckily it seems it worked out though Trent has flirted with disaster already via the drug suspension.

If the scouts, along with Raheem and the FO, view Tyrann as a 1st round talent... I can totally understand taking him in the 2nd, especially considering we don't have a 1st round pick. The risk is there that he'll continue getting high and be a massive bust, but the reward is getting a 1st rounder with a 2nd when we don't have a 1st. That, to me, is incredibly appealing. If he pans out and plays up to his potential, it'll be an absolute steal and our team will just have another elite player added to a roster bordering on being championship-caliber.

The thing about this draft though, is that its so stacked with DBs that there will likely be plenty of guys available in the 2nd round who in other years would very likely have been first rounders. I think there will be players available at 51 and 85 who are at least as good if not better than TM (and who are also "playmakers") but don't come with the added baggage of being completely incapable of keeping their heads on straight and behaving like juvenile delinquents.

[RemoveSnyder]

I compare it to people warning you to stay away from a pizza joint because though the pizza is good, 2 people they know ate there and got sick. I might take the risk and go there if I wanted pizza and I knew that easily it was the best in town. But instead, I got 5 pizza joints on the same street that are arguably as good or at least in the ball park of the other joint. So why would I go to the joint where I might get burned?

Are you eating pizza right now?

[DogofWar1]

Disagree bro... Don't confuse the turnover ratio with the defense having playmakers. A majority of the Redskins turnovers were errors or just bad throws from QB's. There is a difference in happen to be in the right spot to catch a duck vs reading, reacting, jumping a route for 6.

I think our front 7 is plenty good at that, Kerrigan is good at that and getting better, and both Jackson and Fletcher showed they can get themselves in position more often than just pure luck would have provided. Even Orakpo could be solid in that regard, he batted down two passes in the Saints game, and if that is indicative of what he can actually do, I wouldn't be surprised to see him knock down a dozen or more passes this upcoming year.

It's in the back 4 that we have problems, but we have bigger concerns there, like FS, and we need a solid long-term outside corner too, considering Hall is on a one-year deal.

Still, while we might lack playmakers in the secondary, and even across the defense as a whole, we still had a decent number of plays being made by the defensive unit in the form of turnovers. The bigger problem is we gave up a ton of plays too, and the fastest way to stop that problem is to get someone over the top who can turn a 70 yard TD pass into a 25 yard gain and field goal (also, up the pass rush so QBs have to sweat a bit, but those guys are on the roster already). Mathieu isn't the guy to do that though. He'll add to the turnovers, which is great, but Eli still makes that pass to Cruz.

Disagree, I have a lot of concerns about his game but playmaking and instincts are not any of them. You can't really measure playmaking as a stat, interceptions are easy but you can't account for the number of tipped passes he had that ended in interceptions for his defense. It's also not fair to knock the interception total but not recognize the forced fumble stat or acknowledge his special teams ability. The kid does make plays and he does have a high awareness for the game.

I don't disagree that he has great instincts and plays hard, but I question if those translate. Fumbles are nice, but notoriously fickle, and he'll be hitting larger and more technically sound RBs and WRs in the NFL who might not cough up the ball so easily. In addition, we'd be drafting him as a corner, so first and foremost his coverage skills need to be examined, and in terms of that I think there are quite a few in this class who are better than him who will be available in the 2nd and 3rd. I won't say he's bad, he's decent, but I think he's been hyped up well beyond his actual ability level.

And I'm not ignoring his special teams ability, he's definitely a playmaker on special teams, but I wouldn't spend 51 or 85 based on that.

On the whole, assuming he's gotten clean, for what he brings to the table, a 4th round pick seems reasonable for us, based on our needs and the talent surrounding him in the draft.

EDIT: One way or another, I will be so happy when the draft is over and we can stop speculating about Mathieu. If he's here, awesome, best of luck to him, if not, great, best of luck to him.

[Skinsinparadise]

Are you eating pizza right now?

No, man, but I should be after all that pizza talk, makes me hungry.

I just read the ESPN magazine article about him. Wow. For me it doesn't give the vibe that he will stay out of trouble. He has to give his car every night to his agent because he doesn't trust himself and knows he needs to stay indoors. He has a bad day capped off by having a hard time finding a cab, he says he really needs to take the edge off, and subs his desire for pot with chewing tobacco. To me he doesn't come off as a guy who won't have a relapse at some point.

Doesn't sound like the healthiest dude, he's been smoking weed since he was 13, it became a 3-4 times a week habit, now its occasional chewing tobacco, then you got his main diet seeming to be junk food, lots of hot dogs. He's clearly no workout fiend, if I recall he benched 225 once in pro day.

[Mania]

Didn't LaRon go to the Pro Bowl last year?

So did donte whitner and he sucked. It's all name recognition that got him in.

[RemoveSnyder]

I think he's a 3rd rounder based on his movement skills. From that standpoint he's shown as a natural player of the game of football. However I wouldn't select until the 5th and depending who was still on the board perhaps later. I would need a situ where it held extreme value to offset any liability.

I register some inherit demerit for the role as Slot CB. At that, he does get beat vertically, will gives steps in his coverage despite all those Peanut Tillman type plays. Too many of the highlight plays occur in the Curl - Flat as opposed to 20+ downfield in vertical coverage. Lots of highlights show free-runner blitzes to blindside QBs, anyone can look good in those situations. And to echo an earlier sentiment, often afforded to him by the across-the-board talent advantage at all outlying positions on that team.

Additionally, I'd select BW Webb before TM. Likewise, if I can get a standard Safety who in addition to playing base D can also Press the Slot, I choose the player with greater versatility, more scheme diverse ability. There are such players who exist in this draft, that can play Safety, at 6 foot, around 200+ lbs and can also play Press, not named Mathieu.

[sempre_victrix]

No, man, but I should be after all that pizza talk, makes me hungry.

I just read the ESPN magazine article about him. Wow. For me it doesn't give the vibe that he will stay out of trouble. He has to give his car every night to his agent because he doesn't trust himself and knows he needs to stay indoors. He has a bad day capped off by having a hard time finding a cab, he says he really needs to take the edge off, and subs his desire for pot with chewing tobacco. To me he doesn't come off as a guy who won't have a relapse at some point.

Doesn't sound like the healthiest dude, he's been smoking weed since he was 13, it became a 3-4 times a week habit, now its occasional chewing tobacco, then you got his main diet seeming to be junk food, lots of hot dogs. He's clearly no workout fiend, if I recall he benched 225 once in pro day.

I read that story. I feel for the kid. He had a rough upbringing.

That said, I hope we pass, or at least don't risk anything before the 5th round. He is a suspension waiting to happen.

[Warhead36]

For a mid round pick, I'd take a chance. Make sure he's got a babysitter with him, like what they do in Dallas with Dez Bryant. But I wouldn't take him earlier than the 4th and even that might be pushing it. There is plenty of talent available to have to settle on a guy with his kind of issues.

[88Comrade2000]

How many drug tests did he fail? He said he couldn't remember. Drafting this guy would be a mistake. More than likely he will go through the NFL's suspension process pretty quickly. He could get a one year ban by his third season if not sooner. I don't see him lasting long; especially as pot becomes legal in more places.

[mistertim]

How many drug tests did he fail? He said he couldn't remember. Drafting this guy would be a mistake. More than likely he will go through the NFL's suspension process pretty quickly. He could get a one year ban by his third season if not sooner. I don't see him lasting long; especially as pot becomes legal in more places.

I believe he said he "stopped counting at 10" which is pretty damn bad.

[Tarpon75]

Can't see him being available after the 3rd.Someone is going to take the chance before the 4th,I believe.There are teams like SF that have so many picks they can afford to take chances.

[pjfootballer]

I'm starrting to wonder about Raheem. It would be different if all "his guys" had come in and were awesome additions. We're an NFL organziation, not a half-way house.

It's almost like he's the defensive version of Spurrier. "Hey, I know that guy! Let's sign him up!"

That's what got Raheem fired in Tampa. He was buddy-buddy with the players instead of being their head coach.

[Dub70s]

Just don't want another Laron Landry (or Devin Thomas for that matter) on this team.....the kid is already modeling

[pjfootballer]

Mathieu is well worth the risk character wise. We need depth this year and Mathieu provides just that and possibly much much more.

I'm just not sold that he'll be THAT good.

I would be more inclined to agree with you more if you said he was worth the risk playmaking wise. His character is very much in question.

[BornToHail]

If this draft class is so deep, I think it'd be wiser to go with a safer pick than one you'd have to not only give a contract to, but one you'd have to hire a nanny for.

[skinsmarydu]

Well said, Born. If it's risky, don't take it. We're still holding our breath from RGIII's surgery.

[Lavarleap56]

That's what got Raheem fired in Tampa. He was buddy-buddy with the players instead of being their head coach.

Tampa Ownership not spending money on the Bucs while they made moves with their soccer team is what got Rah fired. That tends to happen when the team sandbags staying $70 million + under the salary cap.

[HOF44]

Fourth round or below I'd be fine, not worth the risk for a second or third rounder though.

[sempre_victrix]

This guy has so little self control that he lends his car out every night so he won't get into trouble. Even he knows that he is a danger to himself.

Pass!

[End2round2sanders]

The guys in the locker would know how to handle him. There are/were guys in the league that were found guilty of vehicular manslaughter that were still on NFL rosters. You're telling me a kid with some weed problems shouldn't be given a first chance in the NFL???

[Skinsinparadise]

I read that story. I feel for the kid. He had a rough upbringing.u

That said, I hope we pass, or at least don't risk anything before the 5th round. He is a suspension waiting to happen.

My take on that espn story is he has been a troubled kid and he wants to stay out of trouble but its very hard for him to do it. He owns up to have an edge to his personality which he has used drugs to calm himself, and he hasn't really been able to kill that edge and he struggles with it every day -- owns up to not trusting himself if there are temptations -- and he needs to remove them completely in order to hope to stay clean. My thought is people won't be able to baby sit him during the season -- Peterson can't work with him in that way, his agent won't be able to take his car away from him every night, etc -- so what will happen then?

And all of this comes out in a story that I presumed was supposed to be spun in his favor. Before I read the story I thought it would be a feel good tale about how he's a good guy and how clean he is now. The story did make him sound like a good guy but it frightened me even more about him being able to stay clean. I was expecting a story about a guy that just fell in with the wrong crowd but the story alluded to that being part of his problem but the bigger part being that the dude has an addictive personality who has a hard time chilling and feeling good about where he's at.

---------- Post added April-22nd-2013 at 02:42 PM ----------

The guys in the locker would know how to handle him. There are/were guys in the league that were found guilty of vehicular manslaughter that were still on NFL rosters. You're telling me a kid with some weed problems shouldn't be given a first chance in the NFL???

Same locker room where 2 key players got busted for having pot in their system who were previously warned that one more bust and they will be suspended -- but couldn't stop themselves and indeed got suspended. We have a good locker room but the players can't follow this dude all day long to make sure he is clean.

To me the key is with a deep CB class where even a clean Mathieu isn't considered as one of the top tier CBs in the draft -- on talent alone hes mentioned more in the next tier of CBs with Poyer, Webb , Slay, Alford, Banks. Why not just draft for example Alford? He can play outside or slot and be a returner without the baggage.

Mathieu IMO would make sense in a shallow CB draft where you'd think heck he is so head and shoulders over what else is out there, lets take a shot. But its not the case.

[kjames35]

On August 17, 2012, Mathieu withdrew from LSU and entered a drug rehabilitation program in Houston, Texas - Commendable

On October 25, 2012, Mathieu and three other LSU former players were arrested on possession of marijuana - Not so commendable

That was six month's ago.....

As of yesterday, reports say he passed the drug test at the combine - Commendable

Not judging, but it took 2 months last year for him to get involved with marijuana again. We'll have to wait and see.

But, I will say, drafting him in the latter rounds with an incentive ladden contract would not be a bad idea in my book.

His problem is not being an ass to teammates or having an attitude with coaches. He has an addiction which he seems to understand and admit.

Colt Brennan was a renown pothead and seem to be a forum favorite when he was here. Not sure if Fred and Trent were casual or full blown potheads, but I'm sure noone has a problem with them on Sunday if they're making plays.

Bottom line....If the Redskins draft him and pay him reasonably to his "personal" problem, I'm ok with it. It's not like we're wasting a draft pick. The draft is pretty weak in my opinion anyway.

[HOF44]

But, I will say, drafting him in the latter rounds with an incentive ladden contract would not be a bad idea in my book.

Rookie contract's are pretty much set. If he's drafted 4th or later he will get very little guaranteed money and a pretty small salary.

[CTskins]

I don't think so for one reason...If he doesn't work out, the 'Skins don't have the money to "hide" the mistake. If they had $18 Mil of extra cap space, it's a different situation.

[HOF44]

I don't think so for one reason...If he doesn't work out, the 'Skins don't have the money to "hide" the mistake. If they had $18 Mil of extra cap space, it's a different situation.

If he doesn't work out cut him. If he's taken in the 4th or later there will be no money implications if we let him go, it would just be a waste of that pick. That, you could argue, makes it not worth doing. But the money is really irrelevant at that spot.