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The Official ES Redskins Name Change Thread---All Things Related to Changing the Team's Name Go Here

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The bottom line to me is the following.  The argument against the name is easy, obvious, simple, and fundamentally incorrect.  The argument for the name is nuanced, complex, and ultimately true.  This is America.  People take the easy, obvious, and fallacious evidence/argument every single time.  I think a name change is inevitable.  I'm in for the (wart)Hogs...

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The bottom line to me is the following.  The argument against the name is easy, obvious, simple, and fundamentally incorrect.  The argument for the name is nuanced, complex, and ultimately true.  This is America.  People take the easy, obvious, and fallacious evidence/argument every single time.  I think a name change is inevitable.  I'm in for the (wart)Hogs...

I agree with everything you just wrote, with the exception of the last two sentences.

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Name change. A ****ing name change. Yeah, people, rise up to the power of the name change. With this completed, God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

 

I love this, lol

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I purposely did not listen to Costas.

I knew it would do nothing but aggravate me.

 

~Bang

 

I watched it...and during the rant at one point I yelled a few things at Costas that I very much want him to do.  One involved him sitting on a chair already occupied by another man.  Get my snow drift?  My wife and cousin found that very funny.  

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I'm so ****ing tired of talking about this with people outside of ES.  I have a buddy of mine who sent me a transcript of Costas's spiel after and he was like "you know he's right!"

 

I quoted the part from the beginning where he said something along the lines of "even a majority of native americans say that they are not offended" and said "Nice how he just gets to dismiss this. apparently this fact doesn't matter"

 

And he's like "it doesn't!!"  

 

Couldn't believe it.  The group that apparently should be offended and taking umbrage with the name doesn't seem to care at all and their opinion doesn't matter.  Doesn't matter to my buddy, doesn't matter to Costas, they know what's best.

 

Everyone should just shut up about it, and allow Native Americans to vote on this once and for all.  Leave it in their hands.   Know what?  If they voted to change the name, fine, I'd be cool with it.  I'm tired of dickheads like UnWise Mike, Costas, Bayless and whoever else feigning horror over this name when they clearly didn't give two ****s a couple years ago when we were in last place and Rex Grossman was our QB.

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I've said it once, I'll say it a million times!

Red Mesa High School in Arizona, a Navajo Reservation school.

Redskin Pride baby!!!!

http://www.rmusd.net/education/components/layout/default.php?sectiondetailid=944&

Keepin' It Rez 89.7 FM Redskin Radio

http://www.rmusd.net/education/components/scrapbook/default.php?sectiondetailid=497&

Stupid natives don't they know that they're calling themselves the N-word!

Quick send Bobbie Costas out there to educate those savages!

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I purposely did not listen to Costas.

I knew it would do nothing but aggravate me.

 

~Bang

Same here. I knew there was no reason for me to listen to it. It would only make me upset and the game was already doing that. 

 

I used to look forward to this time of year in large part because of NFL Football. Now? Well, let's just say the majority of my football viewing will be on Saturday afternoons (Go Pirates!) 

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Nah, we all know that it's the gold pants that make us win!

BTW, we won three Super Bowls an played in two others as the Redskins. Why would the gods choose now to curse us because of the name? Maybe they didn't know they were supposed to be offended until they heard Bob Costas.

The Curse didn't happen until after the last super bowl when the name change stuff first became a topic in the early 90s. 

Edited by GibbsFactor

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I too have become disenfranchised with the NFL. The commercials are annoying. The analysis is annoying. The coverage is annoying. Everything is annoying right now. I honestly haven't paid attention to anything else besides the Redskins for the most part since the season started. The losses aren't helping.

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The Curse didn't happen until after the last super bowl when the name change stuff first became a topic in the early 90s.

Ummm no, check the history. Some groups have been working on this since the 70's.

BTW, if any one legitimately believes that there is a curse on the Redskins and further believes that said curse is a result of the name please by all means contact a therapist.

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Ummm no, check the history. Some groups have been working on this since the 70's.

BTW, if any one legitimately believes that there is a curse on the Redskins and further believes that said curse is a result of the name please by all means contact a therapist.

 

BTW, if you think anyone legitimately believes that there is a curse on the Redskins than by all means contact a therapist.

I'm so ****ing tired of talking about this with people outside of ES.  I have a buddy of mine who sent me a transcript of Costas's spiel after and he was like "you know he's right!"

 

I quoted the part from the beginning where he said something along the lines of "even a majority of native americans say that they are not offended" and said "Nice how he just gets to dismiss this. apparently this fact doesn't matter"

 

And he's like "it doesn't!!"  

 

Couldn't believe it.  The group that apparently should be offended and taking umbrage with the name doesn't seem to care at all and their opinion doesn't matter.  Doesn't matter to my buddy, doesn't matter to Costas, they know what's best.

 

Everyone should just shut up about it, and allow Native Americans to vote on this once and for all.  Leave it in their hands.   Know what?  If they voted to change the name, fine, I'd be cool with it.  I'm tired of dickheads like UnWise Mike, Costas, Bayless and whoever else feigning horror over this name when they clearly didn't give two ****s a couple years ago when we were in last place and Rex Grossman was our QB.

 

Their opinion really doesn't matter.  The word alone is all that matters.  I don't think you guys are getting that.

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This raises another, perhaps less important question for me.  Since when did NFL Sunday Night Football become political? Is this the official position of NBC? Or is it merely the position of Bob Costas? And if its the position of Bob Costas, why is NBC allowing him to stand on his soap box and air his personal opinions during their broadcast? I'm all about freedom of speech, and its safe to say that this is Bob Costas' view on the issue (otherwise he wouldn't have delivered the message).  But what about NBC? Has a major network now taken a position?  And if so, why are they allowing their broadcasters in the booth to continue to make use of this "racial slur?"

 

I can't tell you how many times I heard the word "Redskins" during the broadcast (even though I was at Green Turtle and it was loud). Is NBC going to put some muscle behind this position, or just let their minions deliver the message, while remaining "neutral" for business purposes? What's the deal NBC? Hypocrisy anyone? Or just good business?

Edited by grhqofb5
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Why would NBC allow Bob Costas to use the halftime programming of Sunday Night Football to give a sermon on a highly contensious topic which would be certain to generate news articles and blogs for weeks all referring back to the original program and the network?

Hmmmm....can't quite figure out why NBC would want all that attention.

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This raises another, perhaps less important question for me.  Since when did NFL Sunday Night Football become political? Is this the official position of NBC? Or is it merely the position of Bob Costas? And if its the position of Bob Costas, why is NBC allowing him to stand on his soap box and air his personal opinions during their broadcast? I'm all about freedom of speech, and its safe to say that this is Bob Costas' view on the issue (otherwise he wouldn't have delivered the message).  But what about NBC? Has a major network now taken a position?  And if so, why are they allowing their broadcasters in the booth to continue to make use of this "racial slur?"

 

I can't tell you how many times I heard the word "Redskins" during the broadcast (even though I was at Green Turtle and it was loud). Is NBC going to put some muscle behind this position, or just let their minions deliver the message, while remaining "neutral" for business purposes? What's the deal NBC? Hypocrisy anyone? Or just good business?

When you have someone with the weight and fame of a Bob Costas making a statement, it's safe to assume that it's HIS opinion and not the opinion of any other entity.

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This raises another, perhaps less important question for me.  Since when did NFL Sunday Night Football become political? Is this the official position of NBC? Or is it merely the position of Bob Costas? And if its the position of Bob Costas, why is NBC allowing him to stand on his soap box and air his personal opinions during their broadcast? I'm all about freedom of speech, and its safe to say that this is Bob Costas' view on the issue (otherwise he wouldn't have delivered the message).  But what about NBC? Has a major network now taken a position?  And if so, why are they allowing their broadcasters in the booth to continue to make use of this "racial slur?"

 

I can't tell you how many times I heard the word "Redskins" during the broadcast (even though I was at Green Turtle and it was loud). Is NBC going to put some muscle behind this position, or just let their minions deliver the message, while remaining "neutral" for business purposes? What's the deal NBC? Hypocrisy anyone? Or just good business?

 

Network execs think the occasional Howard Cosell moment is good for business and Costas is whitebread enough to do it without generating death threats.

 

I actually think the speed with which this issue is moving may actually be good for Snyder and Co. It seems like every major media voice is getting on this right now, which means that if they can survive this onslaught, there might not be that much to deal with in the future - aside from annoyances like MMQB and Slate not using the name. It's not like the president is going to address this issue a second time.

 

I would love to know what Goodell and the league office has said in private to Snyder.

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wizards_logo_detail.gif

 

The closer you look the worse it gets.   

 

By the way, the term "Wizard" is often used to refer to a male practitioner of the Wiccan religion. In fact, I can imagine that there are quite a few people offended by the use of the term as a "mascot." In the context of offense, religious discrimination is right up there with racial discrimination. I don't think I need to go into some of the horrors perpetrated against members of various communities throughout world history based upon their choice of religion.  Suffice it to say that quite a few people throughout history have been executed for the practice of Wicca or similar faiths based upon what is generally referred to as "Mysticism." Yet this mascot is allowed to stand.  And of course, it's not the only example of offensive use in the religious context.  Remember, even positive stereotypes are harmful.

 

I guess we can play this game all day if we want to. Guess I'm just one of those people that is hard to reach.

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By the way, the term "Wizard" is often used to refer to a male practitioner of the Wiccan religion. In fact, I can imagine that there are quite a few people offended by the use of the term as a "mascot." In the context of offense, religious discrimination is right up there with racial discrimination. I don't think I need to go into some of the horrors perpetrated against members of various communities throughout world history based upon their choice of religion.  Suffice it to say that quite a few people throughout history have been executed for the practice of Wicca or similar faiths based upon what is generally referred to as "Mysticism." Yet this mascot is allowed to stand.  And of course, it's not the only example of offensive use in the religious context.  Remember, even positive stereotypes are harmful.

 

I guess we can play this game all day if we want to. Guess I'm just one of those people that is hard to reach.

 

Really?  Oh no... please no don't take the Wizards name away from us fans!  NOOOOO!  

 

...

 

how can I help your cause?   :ph34r:

Edited by Destino

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Their opinion really doesn't matter.  The word alone is all that matters.  I don't think you guys are getting that.

 

i would say the opinion of native americans regarding the word 'redskin' should matter. 

 

but i do understand what youre saying- and part of me even agrees. thats because people can be wrong about what a word means- in that case, it should depend on the obvious meaning of the word rather than what anyone 'thinks' it means 'to them'. i could say 'please dont use the word lime when talking to me, cuz it reminds me of 'limey' and as a brit, i'm offended by that. i want that word banned.' in that case, the word doesnt mean what i have decided it means to me, so the obvious meaning of the word should take precedence over my opinion of the word. 

 

 

 

the problem is, the definition of the word depends on who you talk to. no doubt, its used almost exclusively in reference to the football team, and then to potatoes. 

 

some native americans incorrectly say it comes from scalping and say thats exactly why its offensive, while some native americans just say its a slur, while others say they have never heard it used as a slur. so, what is it, then?

 

its just a weird word, which i suspect is why predicto wants to move on from it. 

 

i think it simply comes down to this- does the fact that someone may have used an otherwise benign word as a slur mean that the professional football team must change it. 

Edited by grego

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BTW, if you think anyone legitimately believes that there is a curse on the Redskins than by all means contact a therapist.

 

Their opinion really doesn't matter.  The word alone is all that matters.  I don't think you guys are getting that.

 

Their opinion sure as hell matters.  In all race cases, the opinion of the race in question absolutely matters to some degree.  If fifty tribes came out this week and said change the name, it'd probably be gone by the end of next season.  I don't think you're getting "that".

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I love this, lol

 

I can't take credit for this. I forgot to quote the source: Christian Bible, in the Book of Revelations Ch. 21 Verse 4

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a better example (related to my post 2 posts up) might be someone using the word 'niggardly', and someone getting offended by it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_about_the_word_%22niggardly%22

its a word that isnt a slur, but sounds like one, and some get very offended when they hear it without knowing its actual meaning. 

 

daniel tosh did a skit of made up words or phrases and asked various people if they found the word offensive. it was hilarious, cuz pretty much at least one person found every word offensive. someone referenced it earlier in this thread.

Edited by grego

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I too have become disenfranchised with the NFL. The commercials are annoying. The analysis is annoying. The coverage is annoying. Everything is annoying right now. I honestly haven't paid attention to anything else besides the Redskins for the most part since the season started. The losses aren't helping.

 

The NFL is not just annoying.  It's corrupt.  Like Big Tobacco.  It's also a farce that stole 36 million dollars and 36 million in cap space from us, then gave that money to all of our competitors, all because we didn't participate in a collusion.  I've stopped watching everything but the Redskins too.  The only reason I still watch any games at all is habit.  And wanting to see RGIII play.

 

As far as Costas's comments are concerned, stuff like that is going to keep happening until we change the name.  This issue is never going to go away.  The world isn't going to get less sensitive.  Public pressure to change the name will only get more intense and the Redskins brand is only going to get more and more damaged.

 

We should have gotten out ahead of this issue and changed the name already.  We should have invited Native American leaders from all over to weigh in, bring them into the process, asked them how we can properly honor their history and culture with our franchise.  Make friends out of enemies and build goodwill for the brand.  Now Snyder just looks reactionary and insensitive to the world outside Redskinsland.  I respect Abe Pollin for changing the name of the Bullets when it became a matter of conscience for him.  He got tired of the associations the name created, tired of seeing a bunch of gang members running around in Bullets memorabilia.  Would have been great if he hadn't picked such a dorky name to change it to.  But I respect him for acting according to his conscience and making a positive change.

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Their opinion sure as hell matters.  In all race cases, the opinion of the race in question absolutely matters to some degree.  If fifty tribes came out this week and said change the name, it'd probably be gone by the end of next season.  I don't think you're getting "that".

 

You guys keep producing polls and you keep saying that most people are in favor of the name.     That's great!   Why isn't it working, like, at all?

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You guys keep producing polls and you keep saying that most people are in favor of the name.     That's great!   Why isn't it working, like, at all?

 

 

a vocal, persistent minority who has managed to convince white and black 'jounalists' that their brethren are too stupid to understand when they are being insulted?

gibbs, are you questioning the polls, or are you saying the should be changed even if the polls are accurate?

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