Spaceman Spiff Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 59 minutes ago, -JB- said: Fighting about if it’s offensive or not to someone else when you’re not even a part of the minority group is asinine anyway. 100%. I'm 50/50 on the name change now, I can take it or leave it. Snyder and Allen are killing whatever fanship I have left. Don't get me wrong, I'm still thrilled to cover games for ES because it's a privilege but...as far as caring about the outcome of games anymore, as far as paying attention to games that I'm not covering...it's starting to slip. This all said, as much as Snyder and Allen have ****ed this franchise up, I'd fully expect them to **** up a name change. I shudder at the name Wizards, still. It's a terrible name. Bullets was much better...but I get it, 'ol Abe wanted to do away with the gun connotation, he was about 25 years ahead of his time. I'm sure people would be whining about that today had he never changed the name. Pollin's mistake was that they opened it up to having a contest to select the names. Do you remember the other choices? Dragons, Express, Sea Dogs and Stallions. What Abe should have done was interviewed a bunch of top flight marketing/branding companies and have them pitch Don Draper style. But no, he had to open it up to a contest and I can't imagine that there weren't other names submitted that were better than that dreck. But man, he really boofed the pooch on the name change. And the color change, too, initially. That blue that didn't exist anywhere outside of the original Wizards uniforms was terrible. The logo sucked. Everything sucked. So as much as I'd shrug my shoulders if it came out tomorrow that the Redskins were changing their name, I'd be petrified looking forward that they'd come up with a terrible name...and if they chose to get new colors, I'm sure they'd screw that up, too, even though the obvious choice would be red white and blue, giving us 4 teams with that color scheme. This franchise, under Snyder and Allen, have proven time and time again they can't do anything right. There's a high chance that whatever they come up with would be awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 I was debating on writing about this, but during my Yom Kippur service, the Rabbi brought someone up to speak and the talk on this day of atonement wound up being about the Redskins' name. It bugged me a bit because the speaker got some of the facts wrong, like saying that they chose the name Redskins to appeal to Confederates (in Boston?) and that no Native American ever called themselves a red skin (hello Oklahoma!) As for the topic itself, I'm of the mind that anything, is free to be debated even if I'm on the other side. They did make some interesting connections to the history of hurtful names to antisemitism (though they made effort to make it clear that Redskins was not antisemitic just that as a minority group, Jews ought to support others if they get discriminated against.) As for me, I think Spiff probably said it best. My needle hasn't really moved. I'm for the name. The reason are manifold: Every independent scientific poll of Native Americans found that they do not find the name offensive. In fact, several local tribes have said it honors them and if a name change was forced asked that the name be changed to their tribal name. Even more telling, Native American teams on reservations have chosen to call their own team Redskins. And selfishly, the history and tradition associated with them in this area. Then, there's the gray. I think one of the worst things that come out of the Redskins argument is that those who are anti-name treat Native Americans as one Homogenious history and culture. They're not. And that's the rub. I suspect that there are groups for which Redskins is insulting, offensive, and carries a legacy of hurt... even if for many, or most tribes, it doesn't. Does they matter? I think they do. So, I'm for the name, but wouldn't die on the hill or end my fandom if it were changed. Sorry for being as long-winded as I always am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinss Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 I've said it before, and I'll say again. It's easy to say screw It just change the name already when you're a local, but when their not your home team the name is all we have. I started rooting for the Redskins when I was about 6 years old, people ask me constantly why I did and I don't really know all I can answer is they were a good team then and they just stuck, and my passion grew to a point where I was stuck with them for life good or bad. I'm not 6 years old anymore, I don't make unconscious decisions like I did back then, it's probably why I'm not a golden state warriors fan or a fan of any of the other sports teams from outside my area that are really good. I'm rambling but what I'm trying to say is that if they change the name their just another one of the countless franchises out there that I have no personal relationship with and therefore no reason to be passionate about them. I know it sounds silly but when you think about it so is wrapping half your life around a game that grown men play for money. In my lifetime as a fan, the owner has changed, the stadium has changed, all the players and coaches have changed hundreds of times, there's only two things that haven't changed that we're supporting when we fall in love with these sports teams, the name of the team or the fact that it's the local team. Since I'm not from the area I have no local loyalties and i have no idea who the Washington red birds are, their just another franchise out there. Unfortunately if they change their name it'll be a very sad day for me and it will also be the end of my fandom in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 I have a retirement gig driving a tractor and singing to kids at a local corn maze/pumpkin patch. Last week the Mescalero Apaches came down off their mountain to pay us a visit. 3 Redskin shirts and 2 hats. I fist bumped all of them and we commiserated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Burgold said: As for me, I think Spiff probably said it best. My needle hasn't really moved. I'm for the name. The reason are manifold: Every independent scientific poll of Native Americans found that they do not find the name offensive. In fact, several local tribes have said it honors them and if a name change was forced asked that the name be changed to their tribal name. Even more telling, Native American teams on reservations have chosen to call their own team Redskins. And selfishly, the history and tradition associated with them in this area. Admittedly, I have not seen many (or even any) of these polls but my studio used to be a host to a radio station that had a couple shows hosted by native americans. When the topic was hotter a couple years ago, I used to have discussions with these guys. They both hated the name and hated the team because of it. I survived the Bullets name change and I'd survive a Redskins name change. It's not about the name for me. It's about the team that plays in my back yard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, Chachie said: Admittedly, I have not seen many (or even any) of these polls but my studio used to be a host to a radio station that had a couple shows hosted by native americans. When the topic was hotter a couple years ago, I used to have discussions with these guys. They both hated the name and hated the team because of it. I survived the Bullets name change and I'd survive a Redskins name change. It's not about the name for me. It's about the team that plays in my back yard. And I could be okay that, too. In fact, in some ways, a name change would be enshrining my childhood of the Redskins in place. For me, Redskins would be a historical term that would only refer to the Gibbs years (and some years Moses spent in the dessert that we don't talk about.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinss Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, KAOSkins said: I have a retirement gig driving a tractor and singing to kids at a local corn maze/pumpkin patch. Last week the Mescalero Apaches came down off their mountain to pay us a visit. 3 Redskin shirts and 2 hats. I fist bumped all of them and we commiserated. When I was in sturgis south Dakota for the motorcycle rally I ran into a group of native Americans. I had my Redskins do rag on and I asked them if it offended them. They looked almost perplexed by the question and replied "no why would it" Every native American I've ever asked is not offended by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 The clothing is done that way with all sports. Would you like to see some examples? As a NA, leave the name most of us love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said: The clothing is done that way with all sports. Would you like to see some examples? As a NA, leave the name most of us love it. This talking about being the only team in the league doing this for this specific promotion. Sure, I've seen generic Insert City Football, or Insert City Basketball gear forever. But why is the team the lone outlier on this specific league run endevour? This isnt an "everybody does it" situation because everybody's not doing it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Are you Native American ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 52 minutes ago, Burgold said: As for me, I think Spiff probably said it best. My needle hasn't really moved. I'm for the name. The reason are manifold: Every independent scientific poll of Native Americans found that they do not find the name offensive. In fact, several local tribes have said it honors them and if a name change was forced asked that the name be changed to their tribal name. Even more telling, Native American teams on reservations have chosen to call their own team Redskins. And selfishly, the history and tradition associated with them in this area. Then, there's the gray. I think one of the worst things that come out of the Redskins argument is that those who are anti-name treat Native Americans as one Homogenious history and culture. They're not. And that's the rub. I suspect that there are groups for which Redskins is insulting, offensive, and carries a legacy of hurt... even if for many, or most tribes, it doesn't. Does they matter? I think they do. Well thanks. And yeah, as a white guy who doesn't know much about Native Americans outside of what I learned in school, I'd prefer to let them sort it out and not act offended for them. Or act like it's no big deal if there's some that like it. There's certainly a gray area here and this debate is just like any other social/political debate in these times, people will look for examples that suit their arguments and dismiss or flat out ignore ones that do not. I've said it in here before, I found it disingenuous that the height of the name change debate was raging when the team was good and RG3 lead the league in jersey sales. Now that the team is terrible again and there's not as much focus on it, the debate has quieted down considerably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 21 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said: Are you Native American ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Little doubt in my mind that a name change would provide long-term benefits to the franchise both on and off the field. But, really, it’s a non-issue at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Change the name or not idk...but sell the damn team Danny and/or execute Bruce Allen. The health of this franchise has been more offensive to me than anything else the past 27 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 52 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said: Are you Native American ? What does that have to do anything? I'm talking about a specific situation about what the league is doing with the apparel in the specific promotion and why they're doing it, not making a value judgement on whether the name or shouldnt be changed. But thanks for playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 I know I am only speaking as a white male and I acknowledge our tragic history of oppression, but here is my take on it. Do some people find the name offensive? Yes, absolutely. Should the name be changed because of it? Absolutely not. "Offense" is entirely subjective. I find things hilarious that many, many...well, probably most...people would find highly offensive. Case in point: Did you year about the new line of Apple products made for children? They've been ruggedized and have kid-friendly apps. The 1st is coming out in the 3rdQ next year. The iTouch Kids. I find that hilarious--I bet it pisses people off too. Point is, this is not a black and white issue--it's all kinds of shades of grey. There are just as many people, possibly more, who would be offended if they changed the name. Best to leave it as it is, and let the morally aggrieved find something else to complain about. Emotional-based arguments and issues like this need fuel to continue to flame. Don't feed it, and it'll snuff out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonez3 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Ahhhh, the name debate resurfaced. It's really the only thing I like about the Redskins anymore because I truly feel it is the only thing I think they actually might be winning for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Bonez3 said: Ahhhh, the name debate resurfaced. It's really the only thing I like about the Redskins anymore because I truly feel it is the only thing I think they actually might be winning for the most part. This is why I am against changing the name. The name is the only identifiable part from an era when we were the top 2 or 3 team in the league. An Era where we were the Patriots. We were duct taping spare parts together into a dominant machine--and doing it without the GOAT QB. But all that remains of those glory years is the name. Nothing else about this team even is a fart-scent of those years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Evidente Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 A name change will not do anything as long as Snyder is still owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 7 hours ago, justice98 said: What does that have to do anything? I'm talking about a specific situation about what the league is doing with the apparel in the specific promotion and why they're doing it, not making a value judgement on whether the name or shouldnt be changed. But thanks for playing. Are you Gay, Female, any of those things ? I can't tell you how other minorities should feel about what they find offensive. So therefore you shouldn't be able to find something offensive that doesn't even become remotely into your wheelhouse. But, if you want to play. I'll bring the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 I used to be adamantly anti-name change, but now I couldn’t care any less what this dumpster fire is called. There was a great football team in my youth called the Redskins. They played with grit and vigor. The team in DC is not that team. They probably should have retired the name with Gibbs and Sean Taylor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 5 hours ago, Riggo#44 said: This is why I am against changing the name. The name is the only identifiable part from an era when we were the top 2 or 3 team in the league. An Era where we were the Patriots. We were duct taping spare parts together into a dominant machine--and doing it without the GOAT QB. But all that remains of those glory years is the name. Nothing else about this team even is a fart-scent of those years. I dont get this, we still have the trophies, regardless of the name. I keep in mind they weren't always called the Redskins, and in regards to them being the DC they used to play in Boston. Times change, is what it is if they change the name at this point, but I wouldn't consider it a deal breaker for being a fan like I see some other people do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 I feel like a name change will at least make it easier for those who are pretty much done with the team yet just can't let go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 11 hours ago, Bang said: Ah well... writing seems to be going up on the wall. I still say we should be the Washington Burgundy and Gold if we have to do anything. ~Bang The Washington Time Cards .......... I dont know of anything more unintentionally hilarious than this. Fighting over a name change, "Winning" it, only to see the name itself further degrade in the hearts and minds of its fans, to a state of near nothingness. The only thing people will be doing in regards to the team name in another 20 years is knocking on wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Kosher Ham said: Are you Gay, Female, any of those things ? I can't tell you how other minorities should feel about what they find offensive. So therefore you shouldn't be able to find something offensive that doesn't even become remotely into your wheelhouse. But, if you want to play. I'll bring the ball. What part of "I'm not making a value judgment on the name" was confusing? Are you looking for an argument about that? I'm just trying to see what people think of the apparel situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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