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The Official ES Redskins Name Change Thread---All Things Related to Changing the Team's Name Go Here

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Actually sounds like a lot of you tailgaters in what he actually said

Team name not intended to be offensive

But If you Know it is offending a Sizable group of people then think about changing it

That's what most people in here say all the time

 

Define sizeable. I can't find anything that supports that assertion.To be perfectly frank just the opposite is more reasonable & accurate. And BO position is just like any other politician advocating a constituency position.

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44, some people said to be representing the Oneidas, protested the redskins- packers game a few weeks ago.

It was being reported beforehand as a big deal- google it send you can see the publicity it got in the days before the game.

9 people showed up.

I remember hearing about the packers game... I didn't realize THAT was Oneidas. They have gotten so relentless here.

9 people? hahahahahahahahaha

Nothing to see here.

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PRESS RELEASE

October 5, 2013

STATEMENT BY LANNY J. DAVIS, ATTORNEY FOR THE WASHINGTON REDSKINS, IN RESPONSE TO PRESIDENT OBAMA’S COMMENTS ON TEAM NAME:

“As a supporter of President Obama, I am sure the President is not aware that in the highly respected independent Annenberg Institute poll (taken in 2004) with a national sample of Native Americans, 9 out of 10 Native Americans said they were not bothered by the name the ‘Washington Redskins.’ The President made these comments to the Associated Press, but he was apparently unaware that an April 2013 AP poll showed that 8 out of 10 of all Americans in a national sample don't think the Washington Redskins’ name should be changed.

"The Redskins respect everyone. But like devoted fans of the Atlanta Braves, the Cleveland Indians and the Chicago Blackhawks (from President Obama's hometown), the fans love their team and its name and, like those fans, they do not intend to disparage or disrespect a racial or ethnic group. The name ‘Washington Redskins’ is 80 years old - its history and legacy and tradition. The Redskins’ fans sing 'Hail to the Redskins' every Sunday as an expression of honor, not disparagement."

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Good I like the approach that the redskins took and it is something i wondered why it wasn't brought up earlier.  If somehow they have to change their name, they are going to take down every name in the process.  So meaning that the other teams will not want to do it either and they will all fight it together

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I can't remember, why is Oklahoma ok? What's the PC Police narrative there, I don't want to go back thru the thread

Looks like this is simply being ignored by certain people. I don't blame them, impossible for them to answer and not look bad

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I am completely against the name change...I have been a Redskins Fan since my father took me to my first game in 1982.

 

Now let's look at the team history....the team started as the Boston Braves, I believe the name was changed to Redskins not to be confused the baseball team...I think.

 

It is also worth noting that the Redskins owner GPM was considered a racist.  I've never met the man, so I'm just going off what I have read from the team history.  Also if you look at the original words to Hail To The Redskins (written by Marshall's wife) the lyrics are full of broken English (which I could only assume was a stereotypical way people thought Native Americans spoke)  So the song was tweaked a bit to make sense for football, etc.  So as much as I hate to say it (even as a minority myself)...the team history does have racial issues. This is not to mention being the last team to allow blacks on their team.

 

First, in speaking of the Redskins, I think of the burgundy and gold, Joe Gibbs, John Riggins, Darrell Green, Art Monk, Joe Theismann, RFK stadium and of course hating the Cowboys.  The term "Redskins not once in my mind refers to a Native American or a person with "red skin".  I prefer calling people by their names not identifying them by race, religion and the like.

 

Second, there is an argument that over time words evolve.  For example...the lyrics to the Flintstones cartoon says "we'll have a gay olde time"....GREAT!  Now if I am with a couple of the guys and when I return to tell someone about the boyz night out...if I say "yeah we had a gay olde time"...someone will look at me like I had two heads.....lol  So there is an evolution we may want to consider.

 

Third, let's look at what mascots in football are...they are like caricatures.  I mean look at some of the teams now...Who really wants to be a pirate? (like the Oakland Raiders or Tampa Bay Bucs) or a Viking.  None of those mascots really speak to positive side of human nature.

 

The Redskins name refers to a football team, nothing derogatory to Native Americans.  Redskins’ fans don't mean to offend anyone.  But you can't please everyone and someone will always be offended.   I mean what's next an atheist saying he wants the Saints name changed because he doesn't believe in God?

 

Then there are our politicians that can't or won't get crap together in the country so they hang there hat on something like this to distract from what they should be doing. I guess they are just riding the wave thinking they are doing something positive when all they are doing is kicking the political can to the next person in office.

 

Another point, I am a person who does not enjoy gangsta rap....so do I shout from the mountains of how offended I am...when the words are "F this, F that", and all women are referred to as b*tches or wh*ores? No!  I don't spend my time or money or it...when it’s on the radio....I simply turn it off. 

 

So, if the word Redskins offends you...don't come to Fed Ex Field, don't by an RG3 jersey, cheer for the Cowboys, or just cheer against the Redskins, don't watch the NFL...whatever.

 

If you don't like it fine! Leave the other people who love the Redskins Football Team, the history, and the traditions to us we are not bothering or attempting to offend anyone...we just want our team to do well and win Super bowls.  Let us go to Fed Ex Field and sing Hail to the Redskins.....it’s about our team and nothing else!

 

HTTR

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ROFLMBO at any Redskins fan who voted for him.

 

Yes, if only they had known of his stance on this vital issue things would have surely been different.  Will we ever be whole again? 

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ROFLMBO at any Redskins fan who voted for him.

 

 

I dislike Obama and his policies as much as anyone, but here he did nothing but what a politician usually does.... straddle the issue and try to appear to be on both sides.

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duece8 says: Oct 5, 2013 8:14 PM

"Ok, I am a proud NATIVE AMERICAN, not once have I been asked to answer any polls, most of my family is NATIVE AMERICAN, none of which have been polled about this topic, but I will give my answer to the question at hand on behalf of me and my family, THE NAME DOES NOT OFFEND US, it is a very very hard pill to swallow that after all of these years CONGRESS decides to step in on this topic!!! REDSKIN has never been like the N WORD at anytime in my life, the WASHINGTON REDSKINS is a name of a football team! A FOOTBALL TEAM!!! So please stop putting words and feelings of disparity on me and my family! If someone is offended maybe they should support the Dallas cowboys and don’t buy a redskins jersey! What is there to gain for us native Americans by changing the name??? How about changing the focus to our education instead of sweeping it under the rug with government grants!!"

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I know that most Redskins fans don't want the name to be changed because it just feels wrong. Some fans argue that the name is not offensive and that most native Americans must feel pride. Some fans think that its not a big deal and that a few people being offended does not matter. Some fans argue that its not meant to be offensive.

My personal feeling goes way deeper than those ideas. I am so tired of the PC bs. Trying to force people to be PC not just about the Redskins name but other names that are used for other types of people, is straight up thought control. When you try to tell people what words are bad and what they can and can not say, you are basically telling someone how they should think and feel. And if they do not think that way then they are called close minded and offensive. If I was to pound that a certain word is bad and I tried to tell you how you're suppose to feel about certain things, is that not policing thoughts? The so called progressives are equally "close minded" for refusing to accept that some people just are not offended by some words. We might as well just be living in 1930s Germany and get it over with.

Edited by skinsarel33t

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Uh, people asking to be called a name they don't find offensive is nothing at all like fascism, and frankly, i'm pretty happy that it took well over 1000 posts on the topic before someone went and got THAT stupid..

If a significant portion of a group of people ask you to stop calling them X and start calling them Y, and you don't do so out of just being a decent person who would rather not be offensive just for the sake of it, well, you're just being a dick, and there's no other way to put that.

In this case.. such a tiny number have stated that they find the name offensive that it bears asking the rest of the group.

And since much of the rest of the group doesn't seem to think it's offensive, then there's no need to change for the very very tiny minority.

the number of people who equate things in this country to 1930s Germany is offensive.

the fact you believe that is ignorance at it's highest, and it shows that you really REALLY haven't got a clue about the history you're trying to invoke.

Which, coincidentally, is exactly the sort of ignorance fascists count on.

~Bang

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This is exactly what I was talking about if someone says an opinion that you disagree with you immediately slap a label on them as clueless or stupid or ignorant. I am not saying that 1+1=5. I am stating my personal opinion as I opened my paragraph with "My personal opinion." It's not stupid. It is my opinion how can you call someone else's belief stupid? That is the ideological warfare that is hurting people. This is EXACTLY what I am talking about. 

 

I am kind of excited that you brought this up. This is exactly how the media teaches you how to debate now. You attack the person intelligence before you even bring up what their argument is. This is exactly what is taught on the news shows. You start shouting down your opponent. And then while shouting down your opponent you start to move words around to make a sentence that you want.

 

I never said that "people asking to be called a name they don't find offensive is fascism"  See how you immediately stated something in your opening sentence that called me out as being ridiculous? Now posters after you, before they even get to the meat of your argument will already assume that I am making ridiculous claims. So what happens is there is a domino effect and it just ends up being a bunch of angry people shouting down to someone and half the people will have not even read what I had to say. Trained just like the media wants. Bam "you're stupid, the science is in, who are you to make ridiculous claims!"

 

Now in your 2nd paragraph you begin to deconstruct what you imagined me saying. I didn't say that I encouraged to continue using bad names directed at people. I do not believe that words should be used to hurt people. But I do believe that people have the right to think hatefully if they so please. 

 

What I said was "When you try to tell people what words are bad and what they can and can not say, you are basically telling someone how they should think and feel."  I feel that is true. If I tell you that the word gay is a bad word and only bully's use it am I not trying to influence the way you feel about anyone who uses the word? Or a better example is if I were to use "Semi automatic" anytime there was a shooting after awhile you would start to think that "Semi Automatic" = Mass killing. When actually almost all guns are Semi and I just use that word because you have been trained to associate that word with something scary.

 

I also never used the word fascism I said 1930s Germany. See you have been taught to pair 1930s Germany with the word fascism. For 1930s Germany I was referring to the telling people how and what to think, Militarized police forces, Eugenics, shorting information in text books to cut out what you don't want,starting to blame all the problems on Republicans and blame them for why its hard to find a job and everyone is in debt, government editing news articles, news company's going to the government to go get permission on what they can and can't say, trying to build up a big sense of nationalism with propaganda etc etc etc That is what I was referring to. Also fascism is really when governments work together with corporations to make money, or when you slam anyone who disagrees with the government like you know if were to slander someone, or suppress the political opposition like collecting federal employees voting registrations to see if they are a D or a R. You know stuff that's like going on today?

 

I am actually happy that you made that post that way Bang because I feel that I was able to present my opinion in a even deeper way and be informative. I also like how you threw in the zing and tried to link what I was saying to the same thing that a fascist would say or think.

 

No hard feelings for you calling me stupid and ignorant btw. Now I don't want to derail the thread further and get some sort of ban, so if you wish to further discuss this we can do it in private messages.

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PRESS RELEASE

October 5, 2013

STATEMENT BY LANNY J. DAVIS, ATTORNEY FOR THE WASHINGTON REDSKINS, IN RESPONSE TO PRESIDENT OBAMA’S COMMENTS ON TEAM NAME:

“As a supporter of President Obama, I am sure the President is not aware that in the highly respected independent Annenberg Institute poll (taken in 2004) with a national sample of Native Americans, 9 out of 10 Native Americans said they were not bothered by the name the ‘Washington Redskins.’ The President made these comments to the Associated Press, but he was apparently unaware that an April 2013 AP poll showed that 8 out of 10 of all Americans in a national sample don't think the Washington Redskins’ name should be changed.

"The Redskins respect everyone. But like devoted fans of the Atlanta Braves, the Cleveland Indians and the Chicago Blackhawks (from President Obama's hometown), the fans love their team and its name and, like those fans, they do not intend to disparage or disrespect a racial or ethnic group. The name ‘Washington Redskins’ is 80 years old - its history and legacy and tradition. The Redskins’ fans sing 'Hail to the Redskins' every Sunday as an expression of honor, not disparagement."

Should a President be aware of all polls?

Edited by MEANDWARF

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This is exactly what I was talking about if someone says an opinion that you disagree with you immediately slap a label on them as clueless or stupid or ignorant.

If you equate this to 1930s Germany, I didn't slap the label on, YOU did.

1930s Germany IS / WAS FASCISM. There is no separation.

You don't HAVE to say "fascism", because as soon as you say

"We might as well just be living in 1930s Germany and get it over with."

You have invoked FASCIST GERMANY.

You don't want people to think your comment is stupid and ignorant?

then don't make a stupid and ignorant comment.

And then, by all means, DON'T come back and explain how it wasn't stupid and ignorant, because it still is.

Your analogy is wrong. Your historic reference is wrong. Your belief that "1930s Germany" and "Fascism" are not the same thing is 100% TOTALLY WRONG.

For the record there was NO POLITICALLY CORRECT movement in fascist 1930s Germany,, at all. If you'd like to equate tghis to the government demanding you think a certain way, again, they're not, and for a matter of your education, no one is being arrested for using descriptive words that people don't like.

And no one WILL BE.

You people that like to equate things in this country to 1930s germany really are one of the more ignorant subsets of the internet community, and that is saying something.

recognize that if it WERE anything close to 1930s FASCIST Germany, your comment would have seen you arrested before i could write this reply, and then directly sent off to labor camp to work until you died. No trial, no chance. disappear and goodbye.

Jumbo would report you to the government, who would send goons to your house.. because if he didn't, they would come to his house after they came to yours.

You're simply wrong. I won't pursue it more because it will majorly derail the thread, which as a topic has absolutely nothing to do with or in no way resembles fascist 1930s Germany.

~Bang

Edited by Bang

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During the chiefs-eagles game I saw a plethora of fans on national tv doing the hatchet chop...that I believe was deemed extremely offensive, yet....no one has said anything about it. I wish that the PC pantywaists would actually listen to the majority instead of the loud obnoxious minority on this issue. The people that it concerns see no problem with it...in fact if I was Native American I would be more offended by the white and black man telling me what I should find offensive and what I shouldn't find offensive.

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We will just have to agree to disagree. You think I am ignorant and make stupid comments and that is your opinion and I think that you just need some "deprogramming" and that is my opinion. No ones opinions are "wrong" that was one of my big points. Beliefs are unique to each person. It is the same thing with cultural differences I am not going to look down at a country that cuts someones hand off for stealing and say "That's draconian and savage" That's their own beliefs and opinions and it is none of my business to tell someone that what they believe is wrong.

 

But anyway yes we can stop this debate because it is obviously it is not going to go anywhere and yea no more derailment.

 

We both think (I think) that the Redskins should not change their name and we both did not like Danny Smith so there. And like I said I don't hold grudges so we can still be civilized in the Stadium thread when we rant about Haz.

 

Redskins should keep the name, carry on. 

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Well, to be fair, I don't think you're ignorant and make stupid comments.. you made one, and i'm not familiar enough with you to just proclaim you anything. I prefer to levy the benefit of the doubt. I think you're majorly mistaken in that one comment, and that's it.

About two weeks ago i made a sort-of similar comment in this thread.. i was more addressing one person's school of thought rather than the country's climate as a whole.

i was rebuked, re-thought it, and decided i was wrong. I'd made a bad analogy.. the absolute severity of fascist Germany and all it stood for and did.. it just doesn't fit in comparisons.

History isn't open to belief. to use a phrase a lot of people hate, it truly IS what it is, and that's it. 1930s Germany references aren't open to very many interpretations, unless somehow getting more PC will make the trains run on time.

Cheers, and it's nothing personal. It's all just part of the discussion.

~Bang

Edited by Bang

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During the chiefs-eagles game I saw a plethora of fans on national tv doing the hatchet chop...that I believe was deemed extremely offensive, yet....no one has said anything about it. I wish that the PC pantywaists would actually listen to the majority instead of the loud obnoxious minority on this issue. The people that it concerns see no problem with it...in fact if I was Native American I would be more offended by the white and black man telling me what I should find offensive and what I shouldn't find offensive.

That's one of the points that Doc Walker made about a month ago on 980 and I agree with that. I woulden't want someone to tell me how I am suppose to feel that would be semi-rude. Another way to look at it from your first sentence when you say that " I wish that the PC pantywaists would actually listen to the majority instead of the loud obnoxious minority on this issue." is that (now I don't advocate this idea and I am not being sarcastic) "Well we took all of North America and Central America away from them, raped their land and killed hundreds of thousands of them so we might as well go all the way because the discontinue saying the word isn't going to make a difference" 

 

Didn't this issue pop up before in the 80s or 90s and then die down? I have a feeling that some people were paid to stop making so much bad press maybe some behind closed doors settlement? And now some people want some more money? How many legit Native Americans are there? It must be incredibly small most have had the bloodlines washed out by immigrating into "white" society. Even I have some Mohawk blood in me from New York during the French Indian War but it is so washed out that I woulden't even attempt to call myself a Native American. can you even buy a word? Maybe you could buy it? idk.

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That's one of the points that Doc Walker made about a month ago on 980 and I agree with that. I woulden't want someone to tell me how I am suppose to feel that would be semi-rude. Another way to look at it from your first sentence when you say that " I wish that the PC pantywaists would actually listen to the majority instead of the loud obnoxious minority on this issue." is that (now I don't advocate this idea and I am not being sarcastic) "Well we took all of North America and Central America away from them, raped their land and killed hundreds of thousands of them so we might as well go all the way because the discontinue saying the word isn't going to make a difference" 

 

Didn't this issue pop up before in the 80s or 90s and then die down? I have a feeling that some people were paid to stop making so much bad press maybe some behind closed doors settlement? And now some people want some more money? How many legit Native Americans are there? It must be incredibly small most have had the bloodlines washed out by immigrating into "white" society. Even I have some Mohawk blood in me from New York during the French Indian War but it is so washed out that I woulden't even attempt to call myself a Native American. can you even buy a word? Maybe you could buy it? idk.

There was an article...more accurately a blog made about this. It was linked here somewhere. It was on foxsports.com, and it took the other side and pointed out that the name is so offensive to native Americans that's there are several teams with Native American population being up around 80% or higher have no problem with the name and actually do take pride in it...maybe the people who want to make it political should look to those people. The majority of people who are supposed to be offended by this aren't.....in fact, they se it quite the opposite.

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Yes, if only they had known of his stance on this vital issue things would have surely been different.  Will we ever be whole again? 

 

 

I voted for him. I'm a Redskins fan. I agree with him.

 

 

I dislike Obama and his policies as much as anyone, but here he did nothing but what a politician usually does.... straddle the issue and try to appear to be on both sides.

 

 

I'm sure he was talking about marion barry, who the poster above him mentioned.

Edited by grego

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Now Even Tony Dungy is piling on...he of course has to get his say cause he is the NFL morale compass right

 

NBCSportsPR @NBCSportsPR 23m

@TonyDungy: “I hope Daniel Snyder does reconsider and change it. The Redskins nickname is offensive to Native Americans...(more)

Retweeted by Dan Steinberg
 
NBCSportsPR @NBCSportsPR 22m

...(cont) "In 2013, we need to get that name changed...I hope Snyder changes his mind.” @TonyDungy

 

 

Used to have respect for Dungy but now he is just like all the rest...

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Dungy should stick to hating gays.

Sorry, ET, don't want to hear it from you.

~Bang

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This does seem to be gaining momentum with more famous and important people talking about it. Despite that, I'm not getting the impression that the general public is really getting behind this.

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WHAT: U.S. lawmakers, Native American leaders, public health professionals

and student activists will be among those gathering at the Ritz-Carlton Hotel in

Washington, DC to discuss the growing Change the Mascot movement. The event

will take place at the same location as the NFL Fall League Meeting.

WHERE: Ritz-Carlton Georgetown, 3100 South Street, N.W., Washington, DC

2007. The conference will take place in the Fahrenheit Ballroom

WHEN: 11:00 a.m. Eastern, Monday, October 7th

http://www.oneidaindiannation.com/pressroom/releases/Opponents-of-Racist-Washington-Football-Mascot-to-Hold-Event-On-Site-at-NFL-Fall-League-Meeting-226296481.html

 

edited to remove some seriously whiney bits.

Is anybody from ES attending?

 

Seems like a good opportunity to voice concerns.

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