The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)

[justice98]

Incorrect.

Yankee is short for yankee doodle dandy. Back in colonial times that was the equivalent of call someone a fag

 

The entire phrase "yankee doodle dandy" meant that,  simply calling somebody a "yankee" didn't mean that.  

[Xameil]

Apparently not as short as your dingy.

Ah yes...typical unintelligent debater...you have zero argument so you resort to childish behavior.

The entire phrase "yankee doodle dandy" meant that, simply calling somebody a "yankee" didn't mean that.

Yankee is short for yankee doodle dandy. Should we go into all the derogatory terms that were shortened to make it easier

[Califan007 The Constipated]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2015/04/30/organization-of-american-historians-calls-on-redskins-to-change-name-logo/

 

hate to break it to you, but they got their historian's viewpoint one billion percent wrong lol...

 

Here's what was said in the article you linked:

 

"According to historian Alden Vaughan, “the first reported use of [“redskins”] appears in a [1699] passage about Indian assaults on frontier settlements.”

 

 

Now here's what Vaughan said himself:

 

"Vaughan (1982: 948) singled out the apparent first use of redskin in the 1699 Smith letter as “an isolated example” from such an early date, and he concluded from this that “its authenticity is slightly suspect” and astutely suggested that “it may reflect a later editorial hand.”

 

In other words, not only was the term "redskin" inserted into that 1699 document much later, the entire document is most likely a fake.

 

 

You got anyone else?

[The Professor]

You do understand how surveys work, right?

It's not JUST 450 something NAs. It's a statistically significant sample from which we can extrapolate and assume that their responses are representative (within a margin of error) of the entire NA population.

Do 90% give or take of the entire NA population override the Native Americans that do care about the name and are represented in the lawsuits and whatnot?. (If the answer is no that's fine. There are plenty who take that approach. But you can't focus on the number of people surveyed)

 

All that poll says is that a majority of NA's don't think it's offensive.  That doesn't mean it's not.

 

I have a friend that shrugged off being called the n-word.  He wasn't offended by it but the statement was offensive.

 

It totally makes sense that Native American's aren't offended by that term because 22% of them live on reservations and aren't out in society.  The rest are less than 1% of our overall population.

Ah yes...typical unintelligent debater...you have zero argument so you resort to childish behavior.

Yankee is short for yankee doodle dandy. Should we go into all the derogatory terms that were shortened to make it easier

 

Childish behavior..and you're talking about fixing a ****ing boat?  What was that about a short term memory?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

All that poll says is that a majority of NA's don't think it's offensive.  That doesn't mean it's not.

 

I have a friend that shrugged off being called the n-word.  He wasn't offended by it but the statement was offensive.

 

Does your friend statistically represent 90% of African Americans?

 

Because if he doesn't, then comparing the two makes no damn sense.

[zoony]

 

I have a friend that shrugged off being called the n-word.  He wasn't offended by it but the statement was offensive.

 

Of course you do.

[Xameil]

Right...ok, so you just don't have the attention span to read a post...

Because if you did, you would realize that it references Gilligan's Island, and the post that was made earlier.

But now your wonderful, baseless arguments make sense. Hopefully we can all see we have to explain things to you a little more clearly...

[Bliz]

All that poll says is that a majority of NA's don't think it's offensive.  That doesn't mean it's not.

 

 

I'm having a hard time understanding your logic here.

 

If the group that is the "target", for lack of a better word, doesn't perceive the word as offensive, and the group that is using the word (us) isn't subjectively trying to denigrate or offend that group...then what makes it offensive?  Whose intent or opinion of offensiveness controls?  Skip Bayless'?

[SkinsHokieFan]

I actually conduct survey's for a living. The amount of people who don't have a clue on how survey's work is appalling 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I actually conduct survey's for a living. The amount of people who don't have a clue on how survey's work is appalling 

 

Has a survey been done on that yet?

 

***********************

 

 

The WP:

 

"Across every demographic group, the vast majority of Native Americans say the team’s name does not offend them, including 80 percent who identify as politically liberal, 85 percent of college graduates, 90 percent of those enrolled in a tribe, 90 percent of non-football fans and 91 percent of those between the ages of 18 and 39.

 

Even 9 in 10 of those who have heard a great deal about the controversy say they are not bothered by the name.

 

What makes those attitudes more striking: The general public appears to object more strongly to the name than Indians do."

 

 

 

All that poll says is that a majority of NA's don't think it's offensive.  That doesn't mean it's not.

 

 

Remember when the argument was being tossed around that those in favor of keeping the name were scolded and told they could not tell Native Americans what does and does not offend them?...

 

Good times...

[Renegade7]

All that poll says is that a majority of NA's don't think it's offensive. That doesn't mean it's not.

I have a friend that shrugged off being called the n-word. He wasn't offended by it but the statement was offensive.

It totally makes sense that Native American's aren't offended by that term because 22% of them live on reservations and aren't out in society. The rest are less than 1% of our overall population.

Childish behavior..and you're talking about fixing a ****ing boat? What was that about a short term memory?

I've been in here wanting the name changed, too, but do not support comparing the word "redskin" to ""n-word"". I do not know the context of whatever was said to your friend, but I cannot think of very many if any ways someone could call me that and I just shrug my shoulders. We're not talking about the version with the "a" on the end, we're talking about the one in Webster's dictionary.

I'm moving back to indifferent on this topic now. Most of us suspected the truth of this poll was out there waiting to be told, and now it has.

Btw, I don't care if "dingy" means boat or not (had to look it up), that comeback sounds like something my nephew would say. He's seven.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Has a survey been done on that yet?

 

***********************

 

 

 

Mine are boring. They ask people what they want in software and how much they will pay for it

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Mine are boring. They ask people what they want in software and how much they will pay for it

 

You should toss in a question asking them if they think the term "software" is offensive to men with erectile dysfunction lol...

[Bang]

it should also be noted that this poll is conducted by the Washington Post,, a leading voice in the change-the-name crusade. They definitely have a dog in the fight, in that they have devoted an awful lot of editorial and columnist space to changing the name.

 

They obviously did not find what they thought they would.

But, kudos for them publishing it anyway. It would seem there are some willing to accept the answer given by the people who are being asked.

 

Sorry, but when the group who is supposedly offended says they are not, it's time to let it go and realize thaqt since they are not offended, you really shouldn't be, either.

I know it's always the way of the White to make sure everyone does as he thinks, but just this one time, could you maybe listen to them?

 

~Bang

[Destino]

Is it impossible to do a survey that's large enough to get reliable results for each active tribe in the US?  I think native Americans have been saying, repeatedly, that they are not one people and we've all been like "yeah, no we get it totally, but do you um think Redskins is offensive?" then following it up with a headline "NATIVE AMERICANS THINK THIS!!!" 

[grego]

 

 

What makes those attitudes more striking: The general public appears to object more strongly to the name than Indians do."

 

 

 

 

not surprised to hear that.

[tshile]

s/public/policiticalcorrectdouchebags

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Is it impossible to do a survey that's large enough to get reliable results for each active tribe in the US?  I think native Americans have been saying, repeatedly, that they are not one people and we've all been like "yeah, no we get it totally, but do you um think Redskins is offensive?" then following it up with a headline "NATIVE AMERICANS THINK THIS!!!" 

 

I'm trying to figure out exactly how incredibly flawed this survey would need to be for the "real" results to be significantly different.

 

Not to mention that the name changers present all Native Americans as one people and not as a vast number of individual tribes each with their own viewpoint on the subject. The U.S. patent office reached it's conclusions precisely because the name change side lumped all NA's together as one collective whole.

[PCS]

I'm glad this poll fits your narrative.  If you don't think that Native Americans are an oppressed group that is fighting to survive by existing in places where they are uncomfortable then you need to visit a reservation sir.

 

 

I live right smack in the middle of several colonies of the Washoe Tribe. That they have issues in those colonies is an understatement. It's rough living for many of them for sure. Even those located in the city and town.  I have worked with members of the tribe and have had them work for me,(as I have stated several times in this thread).  I don't know about the ones I haven't talked too,but the ones I have could care less about the name,(go figure),and those that do,do so because the Redskins are their favorite team. Should see the Redskins stuff go up on Sunday game days around here. Pretty cool. One thing I do know,is that if I mentioned that their moral compass was askew and I based that opinion on the casino's ect,the fight would be on. Pretty condescending to say the least. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

The Professor is looking more like the Teacher's Assistant over the last dozen posts or so lol...

[TheGoodBits]

The Professor is looking more like the Teacher's Assistant over the last dozen posts or so lol...

Or the kid in the corner wearing a dunce hat.

[Burgold]

 we know the difference between something frivolous and something serious.

and yet 90% of the population sampled said this is a frivolous issue. When this population was studied previously 85% said it was not a serious issue.

 

Everyone on ES knows I'm a softie when it comes to social issues. I have wrestled with this issue and its place often. I have researched it, spoken with people, and read a ton about it. I have yet to be convinced that this is a serious issue to the people for whom it is most serious.

 

I also know this. You can't tell me what should offend me. I can't tell you what should offend you. If Native Americans by and large or even a substantial minority said "This is offensive to me!" I'd flip sides and be against the name, but the fact that native groups have named their own mascots, the Redskins. The fact that every effort to poll these groups finds they don't consider this an offense, the fact that history reveals that native groups used this language prior to Europeans coming to the continent all make me think that the offense is minimal and in some cases artificial... a subterfuge designed to distract people from genuine issues and problems.

[TK]

The Professor is looking more like the Teacher's Assistant over the last dozen posts or so lol...

So you don't think he can make a radio out of a coconut?

[PleaseBlitz]

I also know this. You can't tell me what should offend me. I can't tell you what should offend you. If Native Americans by and large or even a substantial minority said "This is offensive to me!" I'd flip sides and be against the name, but the fact that native groups have named their own mascots, the Redskins. The fact that every effort to poll these groups finds they don't consider this an offense, the fact that history reveals that native groups used this language prior to Europeans coming to the continent all make me think that the offense is minimal and in some cases artificial... a subterfuge designed to distract people from genuine issues and problems.

 

This is pretty much were I am.  

 

Anyways, I only have so much moral outrage to expend, and I choose to save mine for Harvard kids that don't have enough money for Starbucks and have to make due with used textbooks.

[DC9]

A wapo article about the name that's largely positive? And seems to actually convey facts rather than baseless opinions?

Pigs must be flying.

 

This is where I was at.  I was floored and it's turned a lot of heads on twitter from the usual suspects.

 

The WaPo did this.  Not the team.

 

That should be a five star lock to move on.