zoony Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Jefferson Davis highway in nova is next. Just read that. According to BossHogg, a German soccer team called, say, the Munich Nazis would not be offensive because Nazi is not a racial slur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Let's rename Cracker Barrel while we're at it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 According to BossHogg, a German soccer team called, say, the Munich Nazis would not be offensive because Nazi is not a racial slur. You must be 6'7 cuz dat reach game strong Bruh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Really boss? I'm not speaking about Denver or Colorado just in general. Just saying that just because the museum is ran by the city doesn't mean it doesn't revise / edit history. I mean really, are they going to say, 'yeah, this guy was a genocidal racist."? Let Bill speak for himself.  Hot dang, here we hve a recreation of indians killing everybody, with a poster of white people shooting them all down. No exploitin' goin' on here. these fine folk are just getting the opportunity to show the world how they massacred everybody while being shot down.  Note, they write on the bottom how the "wily dusky people" (ie: Untrustworthy non-whites)  will show their weird war-dance and horsemanship, with a nifty painting showing the savages attacking some poor white settlers who are invading their lands and preparing the road for genocide.   Here's a bunch of natives being depicted displaying heir proud tradition of surrounding white settlers and trying to gun them down.  you guys and your justifications..  lol  Buffalo Bills is the single most offensive nickname in all of sports, especially when it comes to natives. to ignore that is laughable, especially considering the reasoning used to villify the Redskins name. one is a color, the other is a guy who did as much as any individual ever could to destroy an entire way of life for millions of people.   Hey, since I seem to be on a roll in asking questions that will actually be answered.. RFK, when you went to Minnesota and watched the protest, did you happen to tell them how much you stood beside them, even though you support the redskins so much that you went all the way out there to see them play the Vikings?  ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Let's change the name of Oklahoma too  Oklahoma - Choctaw for Redmen  Has the word ever been used as a slur before?  Absolutely. I wonder if all Native American geographic etymology should be in the table. Why wouldn't it? The name changers have made it clear that all NA imagery should be removed period. Milwaukee, Seattle, Chicago, etc  Only sports mascots (although you're right in that there are some out there that wan't it all expunged)  Really boss? I'm not speaking about Denver or Colorado just in general. Just saying that just because the museum is ran by the city doesn't mean it doesn't revise / edit history. I mean really, are they going to say, 'yeah, this guy was a genocidal racist."?  Nope. But if their history isn't correct then why haven't they been called out on it yet?  Hell there's a bunch of places in the DMV that would need to be changed as well as some roads.  We're going down that slippery slope that no one said would happen  Slippery Slope. Some folks said legalizing gay marriage would be a slippery slope too.  But it's pretty clear that the Change the Mascot movement is focused on one team and one team only and that's us.  I for one only care about our sports team, I don't give an F about the others. I don't want to have to explain to my children why so many people find our name and mascot racist/offensive.  You have entirely missed the point. If you think proudly displaying a symbol of genocide and murder, "Texas rangers" isn't offensive, then you have absolutely no ground to stand on with "Redskin". None. Zero. Needs to be changed. All of it. Own your argument, not just what is convenient for you at the time. Because that would be spineless and disingenuous  Again, is the word Ranger a racial slur?  At one time, Texas authorities put out a bounty on Native American scalps. The Rangers, instead of going after the fearsome Comanche (for whom the bounty was intended) instead focused on peaceful NA tribes and slaughtered men, women, and children by the thousands. Turning in NA scalps for bounty. Texas Rangers is a racist organization and all their fans are insensitive bigots. Change it.  If the rangers have a racist symbol or name why haven't the NCAI and numerous tribes denounced their name?  The list of tribes and organizations denouncing our name is long and it's growing every year.  I have no right to tell a native person (or anyone) what they can or cannot be offended by.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I've always thought of ways to honor people of different races. Never really associated mascots of a sports team with honoring said races though. But maybe thats just me But think how ridiculous the reverse might be.  Are you really going to name a team something that will ridicule, demean or insult the fan base you are hoping to attract? That makes no sense. You want a symbol that people can rally behind and stand with.  That's why you've never seen a team named the Boston Benedict Arnolds or the New Hampshire Hitlers. Who would buy that shirt or feel good about rooting for that! Instead, you pick a group you feel good about... Patriots, Vikings, Cowboys, or something that represents your town proudly Steelers, Packers, or an animal or mythical beast that represents strength, honor, speed and power Jaguars, Eagles, Falcons, Lions, etc.  No team is named the Landover Landfills or the Syracuse Skunks (as I type that I bet there is a team named after skunks somewhere) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Oklahoma - Choctaw for Redmen  Has the word ever been used as a slur before?  Redman? Sure it is. So just use a slur in a different language and it's all good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Redman? Sure it is. So just use a slur in a different language and it's all good!  Well, the actual origin for "redskins" was French. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Well, the actual origin for "redskins" was French.  Well there's the bigger issue. Damn French! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Jefferson Davis highway in nova is next. Just read that.  I'm sorry but I have to steal a line from John Stewart's monologue about the Charleston shooting:  "We have hundreds of roads in this country named after confederate generals who fought to keep black people enslaved..it's racial wallpaper and you cannot allow that"  Full disclosure, I grew up in a southern family. My whole life I was told the confederate flag stood for my southern heritage. My grandmother has a portrait of Robert E Lee in her house, I even got a flag for my 18th birthday.  But all public confederate history should be in a museum. We shouldn't honor treason, racism, slavery, and the armed insurrection with the names of these men.  IDK what someone does privately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 If I'm not mistaken, the team uses the term and imagery to associate with being strong warriors in battle (or in this case, during games) From what I've heard/read, offended Natives have an issue with being thought of as nothing but war Mongerers in addition to the race element. I can see how they would feel weird about that trying to be spun as "honoring" their ancestors. And maybe it would be different if the team was owned and operated by a Native American but it's not. It's owned by a white guy and I don't think many of the players are NA. So it's just a little awkward when you take into account the treatment NAs have gotten in the last few centuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Redman? Sure it is. So just use a slur in a different language and it's all good! Â Still missing the point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 If I'm not mistaken, the team uses the term and imagery to associate with being strong warriors in battle (or in this case, during games) From what I've heard/read, offended Natives have an issue with being thought of as nothing but war Mongerers in addition to the race element. Meh, **** em HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Let Bill speak for himself.   Hot dang, here we hve a recreation of indians killing everybody, with a poster of white people shooting them all down. No exploitin' goin' on here. these fine folk are just getting the opportunity to show the world how they massacred everybody while being shot down.   Note, they write on the bottom how the "wily dusky people" (ie: Untrustworthy non-whites)  will show their weird war-dance and horsemanship, with a nifty painting showing the savages attacking some poor white settlers who are invading their lands and preparing the road for genocide.   Here's a bunch of natives being depicted displaying heir proud tradition of surrounding white settlers and trying to gun them down.  you guys and your justifications..  lol  Buffalo Bills is the single most offensive nickname in all of sports, especially when it comes to natives. to ignore that is laughable, especially considering the reasoning used to villify the Redskins name. one is a color, the other is a guy who did as much as any individual ever could to destroy an entire way of life for millions of people.   Hey, since I seem to be on a roll in asking questions that will actually be answered.. RFK, when you went to Minnesota and watched the protest, did you happen to tell them how much you stood beside them, even though you support the redskins so much that you went all the way out there to see them play the Vikings?  ~Bang  If you feel so strongly about this Bang why not contact the NCAI and numerous native tribes who have spoken out against our name and ask their opinion?  Ask them if a silhouette of a bison on a football helmet accompanied with the name buffalo bill causes as much anger as our name?  We have no right to tell native people what they can and cannot be offended by, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Nope. But if their history isn't correct then why haven't they been called out on it yet? Do you know that they haven't? To your question. ...probably because of the fixation on the Redskins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Do you know that they haven't? To your question. ...probably because of the fixation on the Redskins  IDK you tell me.  Let's call this museum and call them out on their history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 IDK you tell me. Let's call this museum and call them out on their history. I'm good. I'm not using them to back an argument. You might want to check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 If you feel so strongly about this Bang why not contact the NCAI and numerous native tribes who have spoken out against our name and ask their opinion?  Ask them if a silhouette of a bison on a football helmet accompanied with the name buffalo bill causes as much anger as our name?  We have no right to tell native people what they can and cannot be offended by,  Or. maybe we could bypass politicians, and ask the natives, themselves.  Oh, wait. Their opinion doesn't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Or. maybe we could bypass politicians, and ask the natives, themselves. Oh, wait. Their opinion doesn't count. I would like to hear from Bob Costas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I would like to hear from Bob Costas And his wife. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I would like to hear from Bob Costas I like Olbermann in a self righteous rant any day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Or. maybe we could bypass politicians, and ask the natives, themselves.  Oh, wait. Their opinion doesn't count.  That's a great idea let's ask the following organizations and tribes about their opinions of our team name:  Affiliated Tribes of Northwest Indians Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma Comanche Nation of Oklahoma The Confederated Tribes of the Colville Reservation Grand Traverse Band of Ottawa and Chippewa Indians Hoh Indian Tribe Inter Tribal Council of Arizona Inter-Tribal Council of the Five Civilized Tribes Juaneño Band of Mission Indians Little River Band of Ottawa Indians Match-E-Be-Nash-She-Wish Band of Pottawatomi Indians, Gun Lake Tribe ( Menominee Tribe of Indians Oneida Indian Nation Oneida Tribe of Indians of Wisconsin Osage Nation Navajo Nation Council Penobscot Nation Poarch Band of Creek Indians Samish Indian Nation Sault Ste. Marie Tribe of Chippewa Indians Shoshone-Bannock Tribes Standing Rock Sioux Tribe The Three Affiliated Tribes of the Fort Berthold Indian Reservation United South and Eastern Tribes (USET)  Advocates for American Indian Children American Indian Mental Health Association American Indian Movement[323] American Indian Opportunities Industrialization Center of San Bernardino County American Indian Student Services at the Ohio State University American Indian High Education Consortium American Indian College Fund Americans for Indian Opportunity Association on American Indian Affairs Buncombe County Native American Inter-tribal Association Capitol Area Indian Resources Concerned American Indian Parents Council for Indigenous North Americans Eagle and Condor Indigenous Peoples’ Alliance First Peoples Worldwide Fontana Native American Indian Center, Inc. Governor’s Interstate Indian Council Greater Tulsa Area Indian Affairs Commission Great Lakes Inter-Tribal Council (Wisconsin) HONOR – Honor Our Neighbors Origins and Rights Kansas Association for Native American Education Maryland Commission on Indian Affairs Medicine Wheel Inter-tribal Association (Louisiana) Minnesota Indian Education Association National Congress of American Indians (NCAI) National Indian Child Welfare Association National Indian Education Association National Indian Youth Council National Native American Law Student Association Native American Caucus of the California Democratic Party Native American Finance Officers Association (NAFOA) Native American Journalists Association Native American Indian Center of Central Ohio Native American Journalists Association Native American Rights Fund (NARF) Native Voice Network Nebraska Commission on Indian Affairs Nottawaseppi Huron Band of Potawatomi (Michigan) Not Your Mascots, Inc. North Carolina Commission of Indian Affairs North Dakota Indian Education Association Office of Native American Ministry, Diocese of Grand Rapids (Michigan) Ohio Center for Native American Affairs San Bernardino/Riverside Counties Native American Community Council Seminole Nation of Oklahoma Society of Indian Psychologists of the Americas Southern California Indian Center St. Cloud State University – American Indian Center Tennessee Chapter of the National Coalition for the Preservation of Indigenous Cultures Tennessee Commission of Indian Affairs Tennessee Native Veterans Society Tulsa Indian Coalition Against Racism The Confederated Tribes of the Colville Reservation Unified Coalition for American Indian Concerns, Virginia The United Indian Nations of Oklahoma Virginia American Indian Cultural Resource Center Wisconsin Indian Education Association WIEA "Indian" Mascot and Logo Taskforce Woodland Indian Community Center-Lansing Youth "Indian" Mascot and Logo Task force  Some noteworthy republicans have spoken out against our name too  Rep Tom Cole, Chickasaw nation Rep. Markwayne Mullin Cherokee nation Senator John McCain Billy Mills (USA gold medalist and friend of Ronald Reagan) Ben "nighthorse" Campbell former senator Charles Krauthamer, syndicated columnist   I'm good. I'm not using them to back an argument. You might want to check.  LOL okay man.  I'll reach out to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 The crazy thing, Boss Hogg is that if all those groups have taken the same negative position on the Redskins' name (which sounds pretty damning) then why on Earth haven't they conducted an internal poll of their own groups and published it. Why not put it out there for once and for all what this population truly feels. It'd be a great way to shut up the pro-Redskins side.  There's only one reason I can imagine that they haven't done so. They are afraid of the results or got results that they don't like. As I've said before, conducting a poll is cheap. If you already have the population pinned down it's even cheaper. It would cost them relatively nothing, less than 5k probably.  The best argument the pro-side has is Annenburg. It's really, other than Red Mesa, the only good argument the pro side has. Why not kill it with one internal poll? You work with this population. You have their addresses, phone numbers, emails. It'd be the simplest thing in the world to design, administer, and score. There are even countless companies who will do it for you.  If they don't do it there's a reason. As for the pro-side, they could do it again, but every poll ever taken has said has wound up with a pro-Redskin outcome. Why should they bother with another? The only thing it could do is hurt them. The anti-side, if they really want to make their case, needs to make a case.  Anecdotal evidence is always considered weak. More, if these groups really are representative what are they afraid of other than finding out how the group they speak for actually feels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 That's a great idea let's ask the following organizations and tribes about their opinions of our team name: Affiliated Tribes of Northwest Indians Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma Comanche Nation of Oklahoma The Confederated Tribes of the Colville Reservation Grand Traverse Band of Ottawa and Chippewa Indians Hoh Indian Tribe Inter Tribal Council of Arizona Inter-Tribal Council of the Five Civilized Tribes Juaneño Band of Mission Indians Little River Band of Ottawa Indians Match-E-Be-Nash-She-Wish Band of Pottawatomi Indians, Gun Lake Tribe ( Menominee Tribe of Indians Oneida Indian Nation Oneida Tribe of Indians of Wisconsin Osage Nation Navajo Nation Council Penobscot Nation Poarch Band of Creek Indians Samish Indian Nation Sault Ste. Marie Tribe of Chippewa Indians Shoshone-Bannock Tribes Standing Rock Sioux Tribe The Three Affiliated Tribes of the Fort Berthold Indian Reservation United South and Eastern Tribes (USET) Advocates for American Indian Children American Indian Mental Health Association American Indian Movement[323] American Indian Opportunities Industrialization Center of San Bernardino County American Indian Student Services at the Ohio State University American Indian High Education Consortium American Indian College Fund Americans for Indian Opportunity Association on American Indian Affairs Buncombe County Native American Inter-tribal Association Capitol Area Indian Resources Concerned American Indian Parents Council for Indigenous North Americans Eagle and Condor Indigenous Peoples’ Alliance First Peoples Worldwide Fontana Native American Indian Center, Inc. Governor’s Interstate Indian Council Greater Tulsa Area Indian Affairs Commission Great Lakes Inter-Tribal Council (Wisconsin) HONOR – Honor Our Neighbors Origins and Rights Kansas Association for Native American Education Maryland Commission on Indian Affairs Medicine Wheel Inter-tribal Association (Louisiana) Minnesota Indian Education Association National Congress of American Indians (NCAI) National Indian Child Welfare Association National Indian Education Association National Indian Youth Council National Native American Law Student Association Native American Caucus of the California Democratic Party Native American Finance Officers Association (NAFOA) Native American Journalists Association Native American Indian Center of Central Ohio Native American Journalists Association Native American Rights Fund (NARF) Native Voice Network Nebraska Commission on Indian Affairs Nottawaseppi Huron Band of Potawatomi (Michigan) Not Your Mascots, Inc. North Carolina Commission of Indian Affairs North Dakota Indian Education Association Office of Native American Ministry, Diocese of Grand Rapids (Michigan) Ohio Center for Native American Affairs San Bernardino/Riverside Counties Native American Community Council Seminole Nation of Oklahoma Society of Indian Psychologists of the Americas Southern California Indian Center St. Cloud State University – American Indian Center Tennessee Chapter of the National Coalition for the Preservation of Indigenous Cultures Tennessee Commission of Indian Affairs Tennessee Native Veterans Society Tulsa Indian Coalition Against Racism The Confederated Tribes of the Colville Reservation Unified Coalition for American Indian Concerns, Virginia The United Indian Nations of Oklahoma Virginia American Indian Cultural Resource Center Wisconsin Indian Education Association WIEA "Indian" Mascot and Logo Taskforce Woodland Indian Community Center-Lansing Youth "Indian" Mascot and Logo Task force Some noteworthy republicans have spoken out against our name too Rep Tom Cole, Chickasaw nation Rep. Markwayne Mullin Cherokee nation Senator John McCain Billy Mills (USA gold medalist and friend of Ronald Reagan) Ben "nighthorse" Campbell former senator Charles Krauthamer, syndicated columnist. Looks like a lot of Natives.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonez3 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Along with all Anenburg and Red Mesa is Goddard's piece in the origin of the word, which found it neutral to positive. Which to me is why I wonder why anyone cites dictionary definition. What's their research? NA's referred to themselves (and not in reverse derogatory fashion) as Redskin. And since it has never been used as a slur. Billy Mills example and any other I've ever heard has been in derogatory context. You dirty Redmen, Indian, Chief, Brave, etc. they all work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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