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The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)


Alaskins

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So were they the good guys in the movies? Was there people laughing and mocking the halftime show or was it actually entertainment (much like a game)? I said the MLB owners chose the names in my post... well before movies were even in play- by far

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The good or bad aspects of the Native characters portrayed didn't matter Bones. The Indians in the movies/live shows were simply props. MLB's Cleveland and Boston franchises were conceived when wild west shows were popular live performances, before cinema became mainstream. How the Native characters in film/half time performances were portrayed was dictated by a need to entertain an audience. Reality usually took a far back seat. Film audiences are more sophisticated today. Sports fans are getting there.

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I was joking about the good guy/bad guy inquiry. But as I said, MLB teams had been named after NAs decades before cinema of the like was popular.

Fact is, alot of these teams had NAs play for them when AAs were still not allowed. It was not a complete mockery as you describe. And definetely predates Westerns in most cases

You don't think the names weren't choosing as a token of respect in some shape, form or fashion.

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Perhaps you misunderstood.

 

I responded to a comment about OAF being quiet, by saying

 

and this:

 

You then responded with a comment from the NCAI ( are they the media ? ), basically saying thanks but no thanks until he changes the name.

 

I then said this:

 

You responded with this:

 

I never claimed it was ( even though it obviously was by some ) but of course it wasn't well received by NCAI ( formerly led by Walter Wetzel ).

 

I never said it was.

 

Your comments from a few pages back:

 

You're right, and overall, especially with the media, it really was well received.

 

 

 I mean, there was nothing but praise for him and OAF when it was announced.

 

----

 

OAF is a nonprofit, so we'll be able to find out through tax records if they've been active in 2015. But from this piece in March, it doesn;t look good: 

https://www.football.com/en-us/washington-redskins-the-original-americans-foundation-falls-silent/

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And I really love the assertion that the descendents of vikings aren't vikings (because they don't wear horns on their heads any more).  And that the descendants of the Celts aren't celts any more, because they don;t speak Celtic any more.  But that the descendants of Natives are Natives, not "descendants of Natives".  (For some unspecified reasons.) 

 

That's some real high class logic, there. 

 

The NY Times and Washington Post aren't reputable? Okay. I'm not a fan of the WaPo either but they aren't the Onion. 

 

Where are all the active vikings at larry? Show me an impoverished reservation of white Germanic seafarers in this country whose ancestors were kicked off their land, killed, and put into reservations? Show me a group of oppressed white people who are having their cultures and customs mocked in professional sports?

 

Better yet please find some clinical studies from the American Psychological Association which prove that young white children who happen to be descendants of vikings suffer emotional stress from professional sports mascots who mock their cultures and images. 

What part of commonly used just can't get through your head?  By your definition any word that has ever been used to cast an aspersion is a slur.  Guess what that is likely just about every single noun in any language.

 

Amazing

 

So you believe any noun in any language can be used as a slur...that's rich kind sir, really, really rich. 

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The NY Times and Washington Post aren't reputable?

Actually, if you check, you'll note that I didn't say they weren't reputable.

I pointed out that they didn't say what you claimed.

 

Where are all the active vikings at larry? Show me an impoverished reservation of white Germanic seafarers in this country whose ancestors were kicked off their land, killed, and put into reservations? Show me a group of oppressed white people who are having their cultures and customs mocked in professional sports?

 

 Ah.  Moving from claiming that vikings and Celtic aren't races, to claiming that their situation is not 100% identical to that of some Natives.  (I will point out to you that many Natives do not wear war paint or feathers, or live on reservations, either.) 

 

2844582-4490507009-movin.gif

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Actually, if you check, you'll note that I didn't say they weren't reputable.

I pointed out that they didn't say what you claimed.

 

 Ah.  Moving from claiming that vikings and Celtic aren't races, to claiming that their situation is not 100% identical to that of some Natives.  (I will point out to you that many Natives do not wear war paint or feathers, or live on reservations, either.) 

 

[Moving goal post gif]

 

You say many natives don't wear feathers, that's true because in some tribes the feather or war bonnet are sacred symbols. 

 

http://www.indians.org/articles/indian-headdress.html

 

Also:

 

Viking

[vahy-king] 

noun, ( sometimes lowercase)
 
1. any of the Scandinavian pirates who plundered the coasts of Europe from the 8th to 10th centuries.
 
2. a sea-roving bandit; pirate.
 
3. a Scandinavian.
 
4. U.S. Aerospace. one of a series of space probes that obtained scientific information about Mars.
 
Scandinavia
[skan-duh-ney-vee-uh]
noun
 
1. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, and sometimes Finland, Iceland, and the Faeroe Islands.
 
2. Also called Scandinavian Peninsula. the peninsula consisting of Norway and Sweden.
 
Scandinavian
[skan-duh-ney-vee-uh n]
adjective
 
1.of or relating to Scandinavia, its inhabitants, or their languages.
 
noun
2.a native or inhabitant of Scandinavia.
 
3.the group of languages composed of Danish, Icelandic, Norwegian, Old Norse, Swedish, and the language of the Faeroe Islands; North Germanic.
Abbreviation: Scand.
 
Celt
[kelt, selt]
noun
 
1.a member of an Indo-European people now represented chiefly by the Irish, Gaels, Welsh, and Bretons.
 
Celtic
noun
 
1.a branch of the Indo-European family of languages, including especially Irish, Scots Gaelic, Welsh, and Breton, which survive now in Ireland, the Scottish Highlands, Wales, and Brittany.
Abbreviation: Celt.
adjective
 
2.of the Celts or their languages.

 

redskin

[red-skin] 

noun, Older Slang: Disparaging and Offensive.
 
1.a contemptuous term used to refer to a North American Indian.
 
noun
1.an old-fashioned informal name, now considered taboo, for a Native American
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Since we're off on the same ol' same ol', i'll ask again.

Why no ire towards the Buffalo Bills?

 

It's kind of funny that googling "buffalo bills name controversy" just brings up protests againt the Redskins.

Awful to be worried about a word when there's a team named after the guy who did as much as anyone ever could to destroy the native way of life.

A direct homage to a genocidal participant and exploiter of those who's lives he ruined...  and crickets.

 

~Bang

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Since we're off on the same ol' same ol', i'll ask again.

Why no ire towards the Buffalo Bills?

 

It's kind of funny that googling "buffalo bills name controversy" just brings up protests againt the Redskins.

Awful to be worried about a word when there's a team named after the guy who did as much as anyone ever could to destroy the native way of life.

A direct homage to a genocidal participant and exploiter of those who's lives he ruined...  and crickets.

 

~Bang

 

 

give it up, you won't ever get a response.  They don't have one.  Mainly because they're hypocrites.  But ignorance plays a large part, too.

 

 

And by the way, Texas Ranger is far more offensive than Buffalo Bill.  

 

 

...

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Since we're off on the same ol' same ol', i'll ask again.

Why no ire towards the Buffalo Bills?

 

It's kind of funny that googling "buffalo bills name controversy" just brings up protests againt the Redskins.

Awful to be worried about a word when there's a team named after the guy who did as much as anyone ever could to destroy the native way of life.

A direct homage to a genocidal participant and exploiter of those who's lives he ruined...  and crickets.

 

~Bang

 

give it up, you won't ever get a response.  They don't have one.  Mainly because they're hypocrites.  But ignorance plays a large part, too.

 

 

And by the way, Texas Ranger is far more offensive than Buffalo Bill.  

 

 

...

 

Okay I'll bite:

 

From the Buffalo Bill Museum's website:

 
"Today there is a lot of confusion about the relationship between Buffalo Bill and the Indians. Cody treated his former foes with great respect and dignity, giving them an opportunity to leave the reservation and represent their culture when many were trying to destroy it. Wild West show posters frequently portrayed the Indian as "The American." Buffalo Bill stated in 1885 that "The defeat of Custer was not a massacre. The Indians were being pursued by skilled fighters with orders to kill. For centuries they had been hounded from the Atlantic to the Pacific and back again. They had their wives and little ones to protect and they were fighting for their existence." These are not the words of an arrogant and bloodthirsty Indian killer, a manner in which he is sometime incorrectly portrayed."

 

- http://www.buffalobill.org/

 

The Bills were originally named the Bisons, but changed the name to Bills after a contest in the 1940s. And yes historical documents point to the the team being named after William Frederick Cody (Buffalo Bill).

 

Buffalo Bill was a scout, bison hunter, and showman. He earned the nickname "Buffalo Bill" by the Pacific Railroad workers because he would sell buffalo meat to them. 

 

Cody is best known for his Wild West Shows, which toured in the US Europe.  In fact, Sitting Bull started in several of this performances:

 

220px-William_Notman_studios_-_Sitting_B

 

But I'll dig deeper into the Buffalo bills mascot. 

 

Their team logo features the silhouette of the American bison. 

Our team logo features the head of a native american (some will argue it's a "severed" head but i think that's absurd).

 

Their name is Bills after someone's last name. 

Our name is "redskins" which some believe to be a racial slur. 

 

We've had multiple guests in this thread who have claimed to be called "redskin" as a slur. Just a few weeks ago I met and spoke with an awesome dude from the Florida Seminole tribe who claimed to have grown up with the slur "dirty redskin" by the locals.

 

When has anyone been called a "bill" or a "dirty bill" before? Also, do fans of the buffalo team dress in attire and mock the bison animals? Are there clinical studies out there which prove that American bison are suffering emotional stress because their likeness, customs, and cultures are being used as sports mascot?

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Their name is Bills after someone's last name. 

Our name is "redskins" which some believe to be a racial slur. 

 

We've had multiple guests in this thread who have claimed to be called "redskin" as a slur. Just a few weeks ago I met and spoke with an awesome dude from the Florida Seminole tribe who claimed to have grown up with the slur "dirty redskin" by the locals.

 

When has anyone been called a "bill" or a "dirty bill" before? Also, do fans of the buffalo team dress in attire and mock the bison animals? Are there clinical studies out there which prove that American bison are suffering emotional stress because their likeness, customs, and cultures are being used as sports mascot?

 

 

I see.  So, calling a Jewish person a racial slur would be bad.  But displaying a Nazi flag would be okay.

 

Now, look up Texas Rangers.  Tell me what you find on that one.  :popcorn smiley:

 

 

Like I said folks, be prepared to change it all.  It's ALL offensive.

 

Andrew Jackson on the $20, or any image or homage to him.  

Sam Houston.  Highly, highly, HIGHLY offensive to the NA's.  Change the city's name.  

Texas Rangers

 

Anyone want to add to the list?

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I see.  So, calling a Jewish person a racial slur would be bad.  But displaying a Nazi flag would be okay.

 

Now, look up Texas Rangers.  Tell me what you find on that one.  :popcorn smiley:

 

 

Like I said folks, be prepared to change it all.  It's ALL offensive.

 

Andrew Jackson on the $20, or any image or homage to him.  

Sam Houston.  Highly, highly, HIGHLY offensive to the NA's.  Change the city's name.  

Texas Rangers

 

Anyone want to add to the list?

 

Let's change the name of Oklahoma too

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I see.  So, calling a Jewish person a racial slur would be bad.  But displaying a Nazi flag would be okay.

 

Now, look up Texas Rangers.  Tell me what you find on that one.  :popcorn smiley:

 

 

Like I said folks, be prepared to change it all.  It's ALL offensive.

 

Andrew Jackson on the $20, or any image or homage to him.  

Sam Houston.  Highly, highly, HIGHLY offensive to the NA's.  Change the city's name.  

Texas Rangers

 

Anyone want to add to the list?

 

Where did the swastika/Nazi flag come from?

 

Texas Rangers

noun
1. a member of the Texas state police force or, especially formerly, of the mounted state police.
2. a member of a semiofficial group of settlers organized to fight Indians and maintain order.
 
Texas Rangers
plural noun
1. the state police of Texas, originally formed in the 19th century to defend outlying regions against Indians and Mexicans and to fight lawlessness

 

So we agree a Texas Ranger has a dark history. 

 

but when as someone used the word "Ranger" as a slur? Has the mascot for the baseball team caused stress and self-esteem issues for other texas ranger officers?

Schools gloss over bad history all the time.

 

What school? Is there a problem with Denver County Public Schools I'm not aware of?

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Let's change the name of Oklahoma too

Absolutely. I wonder if all Native American geographic etymology should be in the table. Why wouldn't it? The name changers have made it clear that all NA imagery should be removed period.

Milwaukee, Seattle, Chicago, etc

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Absolutely. I wonder if all Native American geographic etymology should be in the table. Why wouldn't it? The name changers have made it clear that all NA imagery should be removed period.

Milwaukee, Seattle, Chicago, etc

 

Hell there's a bunch of places in the DMV that would need to be changed as well as some roads.

 

We're going down that slippery slope that no one said would happen

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Where did the swastika/Nazi flag come from?

Texas Rangers

noun

1. a member of the Texas state police force or, especially formerly, of the mounted state police.

2. a member of a semiofficial group of settlers organized to fight Indians and maintain order.

Texas Rangers

plural noun

1. the state police of Texas, originally formed in the 19th century to defend outlying regions against Indians and Mexicans and to fight lawlessness

So we agree a Texas Ranger has a dark history.

but when as someone used the word "Ranger" as a slur? Has the mascot for the baseball team caused stress and self-esteem issues for other texas ranger officers?

of?

You have entirely missed the point.

If you think proudly displaying a symbol of genocide and murder, "Texas rangers" isn't offensive, then you have absolutely no ground to stand on with "Redskin". None. Zero.

Needs to be changed. All of it. Own your argument, not just what is convenient for you at the time. Because that would be spineless and disingenuous

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Really admiring the notion that it is impossible to compare Word X to Word Y, if someone can find any difference at all between the two words. 

 

Finally we have seen the end of comparing the name of our football team to the n-word. 

 

About freakin time. 

 

And don't you understand?  Buffalo Bill rescued Indians from the reservations, and turned them into circus acts (which he sold tickets to), out of his deep respect for the people, and their race as a whole.  Not like Marshall and his exploitative football team. 

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At one time, Texas authorities put out a bounty on Native American scalps. The Rangers, instead of going after the fearsome Comanche (for whom the bounty was intended) instead focused on peaceful NA tribes and slaughtered men, women, and children by the thousands. Turning in NA scalps for bounty.

Texas Rangers is a racist organization and all their fans are insensitive bigots. Change it.

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