The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)

[CrypticVillain]

I don't bet on my favorite teams.

 

Winning plenty from San Antonio in this Finals however. Don't tell Sinister. 3 of 4 bets. I'll take it.

The last couple of bets I made I bet against my team. I lost a lot of money in 2012. 

[Kosher Ham]

but you have to believe those kind of go hand and hand. WE can run around with this name for years and flaunt it and large groups of them get upset over the name but have no power to change it?

Im just tired of this conversation. We should move onward and start looking good as an organization.

 

There are a ton of threads on this forum. Some of them funny, some of them informative, some cool stuff, and some of them just entertaining.

 

'Are you not entertained' ? Then move on to one of those other threads.

 

They do not go hand in hand. Not even close.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

We should move onward and start looking good as an organization.

Totally agree. And then after that, we can start worrying about the name.

[Kosher Ham]

The last couple of bets I made I bet against my team. I lost a lot of money in 2012. 

 

Blasphemy. 

 

I kind of feel like I would get more upset if I bet on or against my favorite teams if I lost the bet. Other teams...who cares ?

 

Now a simple friendly small wager, like RP used to do...ehh that's fine.

[CrypticVillain]

Blasphemy. 

 

I kind of feel like I would get more upset if I bet on or against my favorite teams if I lost the bet. Other teams...who cares ?

 

Now a simple friendly small wager, like RP used to do...ehh that's fine.

Yeah. For me it was kind of a reverse mojo thing. When it worked against the Eagles that first game, I tried it again for the Dallas game. And it worked again for 5 more weeks. I did it again in the Seattle playoff game, and well, I won the bet, but lost so much more

 

Anyway(s)... Don't change the name!!!

[Springfield]

I agree, totally lame Springfield Skins.

Burn!

Believe me when I say that I wish I had picked out a different name when I signed up. Now that I've been on here for for like a decade and a half it's too late to change.

It would be like going from Phoward to Forehead. Can't be done.

[BleedBNG]

This is the endgame that the Halbriters, Reid's, and UnWise Mikes of the world want. They want to dwindle your resolve down until you change the name simply so they'll shut up.

 

I agree... I would rather put up with this crap than to change the name. What do I care if they want to keep on fussing about a matter that doesn't seem to bother a large portion of NA's, along with some of their high schools. Better this than a name changed to something probably lame. Seriously, cry on, cry on as long as the name stays... I don't care. I will say this... as long as DS is still the owner of this team, and as long as the trademark stays, the name will also... no matter what any of you think all of these name changing campaigns will inevitably lead to.

[elkabong82]

Good point, I hadn't thought of that. Is there precedent for that? Like you alluded to, we have names that are shared in different sports (Giants, Cardinals, etc.). 

 

Warriors isn't horrible to me like to some. I actually think it's a pretty cool compromise. 

 

I don't really care about Champ Bailey anymore either...but why doesn't he have a right to speak on the matter? If UnWise Mike can write columns about it, certainly current NFL players (especially current and ex-Redskins) can chime in. 

 

I never said he doesn't have a right to speak his mind, just that I have zero cares what he has to say on the matter, and that's frankly because all he had to say about it was repeated ignorance.

just change the name. Im really tired of this conversation.

 

If the players exhibited this kind of easy quitting us fans would never let them hear the end of it. 

 

How can we ever again say we are a great fanbase if we give up easily on this issue and the name changes due to the team no longer having fan support? All because "we didn't want to hear it anymore, we give up." That would be embarrassing. The majority of the country and NAs are with us on this issue, don't forget that.

[PleaseBlitz]

The worst thing about changing the name is that UnWise Mike will be validated.  

[Destino]

If this debate could be won, I'd be in favor of keeping the name. I don't think that redskin is a slur and I think the logo is respectful, not a caricature like chief wahoo. The problem is that I don't see this as a battle that can be won, especially not by this teams owner and consistently poor PR staff. Making this as a point if pride and fighting simply to stand on principle with the best possible outcome being to avoid letting "them" win, is foolish. It gains us nothing and will cost much in the end.

I have no interest in beating these people, whoever it is they may be. I care only for my team and what benefits it now and in the long run. I think it benefits the team to get out of this fight. Especially because of our unfortunate distinction of being the last team to integrate. This could very easily turn into another bitter defeat and another black mark on this teams history. I don't see the value in keeping the name as being equal to the risk.

I say this thinking that the team will not be named the Griffins or something horrible like Warlocks, Wizards, or (god help us all) Dragons. If those are the alternatives I reserve the right to embrace denial and pretend that I know nothing of any if this.

[elkabong82]

 

 

 

 

here is the thing, this isnt going anywhere. This isnt a child. This is people with a lot of money who will keep saying its offensive. The name probably is offensive. THe history of the team is not going anywhere if the name is changed. We wont give up the Super Bowls and the NFL championship. And we will probably make more money off this.

I do not like how the team is handling this, and I dont like that this name offends people. But I also dont like UnWise Mike types talking about this all the time too. I just want to watch and support my football team. A lot of people are bothered by it from former players, fans, etc. I want us to talk about the abject nature of our team, and not this stuff. Just change the name and move forward. We will look a lot better in the long run.

 

Yeah, I can't wait for Wise and the other local troll media to get off the name change stuff and get back to trashing the team no matter how good they do. I can't wait for the RG3 has character issues, sabotaged the team, went crying to Danny articles. I can't wait for the articles trying to start a QB controversy between RG3 and Cousins. I can't wait for the articles about how Snyder is secretly in charge still. 

 

Seriously, some of you all are forgetting just how awful the local media coverage is. If the name changes, they'll still bring it up to rub salt in the wound, and they'll just go on with their real agenda, which is hating the team. You're basically wishing for the turd to go away so you can get back to the rotting broccoli.

[The Evil Genius]

I've always loved the idea of keeping the logo and using Warriors as the new name (and I agree Des, this can't be won anymore).

 

That said, I wonder if the team would go in another direction altogether and choose something historical like the Senators and go with a new logo. 

[elkabong82]

Clearly so offended:

 

http://t.co/XFolwjtpZD

Team needs to do a media campaign of Native Americans saying they are in favor of the name.  It needs to be done right, just enough so to get the point across that there are plenty of NAs out there that support the team name. We have acknowledged some don't like it, but the other side refuses to acknowledge that there are many NAs that favor the name, because they know opposition is in the minority.

[TK]

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/05/29/retired-native-american-chief-would-be-offended-if-redskins-did-change-name/#.U5jCHcHHKBR.facebook

 

Retired Native American Chief Would Be Offended If Redskins Did Change Name

by Chris LingebachMay 29, 2013 4:38 PM

 

WASHINGTON (CBSDC) - Days ago, ten members of Congress sent letters to NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, Redskins owner Daniel Snyder, and the team’s stadium naming rights holder FedEx, along with the league’s 31 other franchises, urging them to have ‘Redskins’ changed due to the name’s offensive nature.

 

In response, the longtime chief of a major Virginia-based tribe went on the record to say he’d actually be offended if the team DID change the name.

 

 

Robert “Two Eagles” Green, who retired from his presiding role over the 1300-member Patawomeck Tribe in March, was a guest on SiriusXM NFL Radio’s “The Opening Drive” on Wednesday.

He gave a detailed account of the origin of the term Redskin, why so many people are offended by it, and how political correctness has allowed this story to fester far longer than it should.

“I think that first of all, you have to make a decision whether you consider it offensive or not, and frankly, the members of my tribe, the vast majority, don’t find it offensive,” Green said. “I’ve been a Redskins fan for years and to be honest with you, I would be offended if they did change it.”

Earlier this month, Snyder told the USA Today “We’ll never change the name,” but instead of bringing finality to the debate, his words seemed to spark controversy on a national level, bringing activists from both sides out of the woodwork to fan the flames.

 

Chief Green’s research indicates the common misconception is to think the term was originally used as a racial epithet to denigrate Native people; that the label was actually self-applied, and was used quite frequently during interactions with early settlers.

 

 

Here’s a blow-by-blow of the interview, in which each nuance of the great debate is addressed.

 

 

Why are people offended by it?

“Well I think that, first of all, our country has become too politically correct. And you can find it in any number of areas. Little League, where everybody has to get a trophy now, or otherwise, the poor child that doesn’t get a trophy will have his psyche hurt.”

 

 

Origin of the Name

“And I think what you have to do is look at where the term Redskin was originated. There’s some that give the term Redskins a negative connotation to indicate that it was created by the white man, to offend the Indians. But in reality, the term Redskins came from the Indians. And they referred to themselves often times, in treaty negotiations and meetings with the early settlers, as Redskins.

“So it’s not a term that the white man created. It’s actually a term that the Indians themselves created. I just think we have people in this country that try and gin up problems that don’t exist.”

“Now, our investigation into the term goes back pretty far – to 1608 – when John Smith was traveling from Jamestown to meet with the Indian people, and he remarked in his diary that when they’re born, they’re as white as we are. It’s only as they age that their skin darkens.

“And we believe that that was a reason for that. We use a bug repellant, for lack of a better term, that was made up of animal fat and the dye of the Puccoon plant. And coincidentally, the Puccoon dye, when it’s crushed and dyed, is red. And so for years, the Indian people were rubbing this red dye into their skin. And some of the other early settlers remarked that their skin turns red. So, was that a comment meant to denigrate the Indian people? I don’t think so. I don’t think the name was created by George Preston Marshall to be offensive.”

 

 

The Logo

“And if you look at the logo, there’s nothing offensive about the logo. I think one of the great things about the logo is that it’s an Eastern Indian, and they didn’t go to the full warhead headdress and things. It was never intended to be offensive. I think that sometimes, we’re a little too touchy in our society these days.”

[elkabong82]

I've always loved the idea of keeping the logo and using Warriors as the new name (and I agree Des, this can't be won anymore).

 

That said, I wonder if the team would go in another direction altogether and choose something historical like the Senators and go with a new logo. 

 

Only way they can win is by getting to the sponsors, but that can only happen when support shifts. Look at the comments of these articles, look at the polling, the support for the Redskins is greater than the opposition. It's a PC agenda though, so the media is only showing one side, especially separate agenda-driven locals. 

 

Redskins are doing charity now, and apparently have some media event they are working on, getting NAs involved. Hopefully they pull that off well like they did the Bruce Allen letter and that can put a bunch of faces to the NAs in support of the Redskins and while it may not silence the opposition it will give a much louder voice to those in favor and cast greater doubt on the opposition (which hasn't relied on much truth, just rhetoric).

[codeorama]

What I don't care for about this thread is that so many believe that there is some scam out there to take "your" team name. They are ALL lying, no one is offended. They just want to deprive you of your team name. It's not possible that some NA's accept the name while others are offended by it. No, that's not possible. They are all lying. It's a conspiracy.

[PleaseBlitz]

What I don't care for about this thread is that so many believe that there is some scam out there to take "your" team name. They are ALL lying, no one is offended. They just want to deprive you of your team name. It's not possible that some NA's accept the name while others are offended by it. No, that's not possible. They are all lying. It's a conspiracy.

 

Agreed.  

 

The other thing that I don't understand is why people feel there needs to be general agreement on whether or not something is offensive.  Personally, I don't find the F word offensive (and I try to use it as often as ****ing possible), but SOME PERCENTAGE of people do, therefore, the word is offensive.  Maybe if that percentage is 1% or even 10%, then those people are maybe just a bit uptight, but that is not the situation with the Skins name.  A significant percentage of people find it offensive.  

[Larry]

What I don't care for about this thread is that so many believe that there is some scam out there to take "your" team name. They are ALL lying, no one is offended. They just want to deprive you of your team name. It's not possible that some NA's accept the name while others are offended by it. No, that's not possible. They are all lying. It's a conspiracy.

What I don't care for about this thread is the people who will claim that the thread is full of something which, I'm willing to bet, has not been said one single time in this entire thread.

[codeorama]

Agreed.

The other thing that I don't understand is why people feel there needs to be general agreement on whether or not something is offensive. Personally, I don't find the F word offensive (and I try to use it as often as ****ing possible), but SOME PERCENTAGE of people do, therefore, the word is offensive. Maybe if that percentage is 1% or even 10%, then those people are maybe just a bit uptight, but that is not the situation with the Skins name. A significant percentage of people find it offensive.

Great point. First day of school every year, I tell my students that curse words don't offend me. However, my coteacher is a female and she is offended by them. Therefore, don't say them.

What I don't care for about this thread is the people who will claim that the thread is full of something which, I'm willing to bet, has not been said one single time in this entire thread.

No one has "literally" said this, but the sentiment is everywhere.

[Larry]

No one has "literally" said this, but the sentiment is everywhere.

And then, when called on it, respond by claiming that, well, not one single person has said what they claimed was all over the place, but they're certain that people are thinking it.

[codeorama]

Btw, I do not agree with everything written in this article, but, I do find this interesting:

"Note: Goodell and Snyder both have been asked if they would feel comfortable calling a Native American "Redskin." Both men have declined to answer the question. What else do you need to know?"

There's also other points made as well.

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/77382004/washington-redskins-nickname-controversy-bruce-allen-us-senators#!XDhZa

And then, when called on it, respond by claiming that, well, not one single person has said what they claimed was all over the place, but they're certain that people are thinking it.

Larry, I respect you as a poster, you always seem fair and insightful, but this is not a court room. You get the point I'm making and it's a legitimate point. Someone else agreed so I can't be that far off.

[Bonez3]

How can we ever again say we are a great fanbase if we give up easily on this issue and the name changes due to the team no longer having fan support? All because "we didn't want to hear it anymore, we give up." That would be embarrassing. The majority of the country and NAs are with us on this issue, don't forget that.

This is what keeps me checking in on this thread. The idea that so many fans are flippant on the idea of changing the name.

I live in Philly country, and to be honest my friends actually support not changing the name and in a rare solidarity, realize the PC that is driving this.

The logo and the name is not racist, that's why, IMO, every fan should stand their ground.

Great post by TK. Come on guys, it's not a 'losing battle' and changing our name leaves very little else to lose.

[Spearfeather]

Btw, I do not agree with everything written in this article, but, I do find this interesting:

"Note: Goodell and Snyder both have been asked if they would feel comfortable calling a Native American "Redskin." Both men have declined to answer the question. What else do you need to know?"

 

 

Note: I am sure that both of them have used the name, Redskins, in the presence of Native Americans.

[Larry]

Larry, I respect you as a poster, you always seem fair and insightful, but this is not a court room. You get the point I'm making and it's a legitimate point. Someone else agreed so I can't be that far off.

I get the point you're making, and it is flat out untrue, and you full well know it. The fact that you instantly agreed that not one person in this multi-year thread has ever said what you claim, tells me that you knew it wasn't true when you said it.

[codeorama]

Note: I am sure that both of them have used the name, Redskins, in the presence of Native Americans.

Using it in their presence isn't the same as calling them a redskin.

I've read that an open challenge posted on a major news site was to go on a reservation and into a bar and say " hey, what's up redskins". How many would be willing to do it.

I get the point you're making, and it is flat out untrue, and you full well know it. The fact that you instantly agreed that not one person in this multi-year thread has ever said what you claim, tells me that you knew it wasn't true when you said it.

The point I'm making is that the majority in this thread do not believe that NA's are truly offended.