The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

You know, I do still enjoy PTI. ESPN rarely does anything of value these days and I think that's one them (including their 30 for 30 docs and, politics aside, Olberman's new show. Around the Horn, preceding PTI, is not.) But listening to Wilbon and Kornheiser talk about the Skins name, the one thing that stands out is just how DISconnected they are from the general public here. To listen to them talk, there's now a growing groundswell in this area for a name change. Huh?

[DallasCowboyFan156]

Even if the name gets changed do they expect to be able to stop fans from singing Hail To the Redskins after a score or from wearing gear with the Redskin logo on it to games. Changing the name isn't going to change the culture of the football team, at least not for a very long time. I'm obviously not a Skins fan but if I were i would sing that song louder than ever after a score just because.

[Kosher Ham]

That land that I am referring to was a families farm that was in their family for centuries....do yours.

 

Other issues...sure.

 

Trying to reclaim their land. I have no problem with.

 

The land that they should have is worth a fortune.

[Commander PK]

You know what they could do?  I have another option.  Simply remove any official name from the football team other than...Washington.   Cowboys against Washington.  Giants against Washington.  Let the team ownership, executives, and the NFL at large NEVER refer to the team as the Redskins again.  No writer ever has to write the word "Redskins" again if they don't want to.  No commentator has to speak it if they don't want to.  Leave the Jerseys the exact same, just remove the name.  

 

Everything else remains.  The logo, the colors, by the team, and the true NAME kept alive unofficially by the fans of the team.  

 

You can't stop people from saying and thinking what they want to.  We have freedom of speech in this country.  The Washington Redskins could still be known as the Redskins, and acknowledged by every willing party as the Redskins...just not officially by the team or the NFL any longer.  The fans could call them the Redskins.  We could sing the Hail to the Redskins after every score, and wear the gear.  85,000 racists singing Hail to the Redskins every Sunday, lol.  What are you going to do?  Sue all of us? 

 

Who cares what the media calls them?  Who cares if the name is officially attached to the team?  For us, they will still and always will be the Washington REDSKINS official or not.  

 

Seriously, I'm so fed up with this ****.  People make me sick.     

[elkabong82]

So is anyone going to be surprised when Halbritter tries to negotiate an annual payment from the NFL/Redskins to keep the name? 

[Commander PK]

Even if the name gets changed do they expect to be able to stop fans from singing Hail To the Redskins after a score or from wearing gear with the Redskin logo on it to games. Changing the name isn't going to change the culture of the football team, at least not for a very long time. I'm obviously not a Skins fan but if I were i would sing that song louder than ever after a score just because.

No kidding.  Do they honestly think the fans will accept the change?  No way man.  That's why I say, just officially remove the name. Hell, officially call them the Washington Burgundy and Gold, put the spear back on the helmet.  The spear means nothing in and of itself.  Remove any official attachment to the name "Redskins," and the fans will continue to call the team what we want to.  The Washington Redskins.  "I'm going to the Redskins game on Sunday."  "The Redskins sure are looking good this year."  Nothing really changes.

 

I swear man, the harder they push the harder you want to push back.

[Kosher Ham]

I would not be.

 

I would find that to be pitiful on his part if that turns out to be the case.

 

At the same time, perhaps Snyder has already had this discussion with him.

[DallasCowboyFan156]

If I were Snyder I would hold a press conference and say that I didn't know what all the hubbub was about. The name Redskin is just a reference to people who have laid out in the sun too long. And that logo? Why, that's not a Native American. That's just an artistic depiction of Tan Mom, the team mascot. Doesn't she look beautiful with those feathers in her hair? Then I would get teary eyed and say how dissapointef and offended I was that people would marginalize the franchises attempts to call attention to the dangers of excessive tanning and skin cancer. But I would apologize for any misunderstanding but say that I take comfort that everything is sorted out now. Then I would back away from the podium, never turning away from the cameras as I flipped the double bird, both middle fingers sky high as I slowly backed out of the room.

[dlwredskins]

I guess I just can't wrap my head around why you would stop doing something you enjoy because a piece of the franchise changes. I associate my great memories of my childhood with the Joe Gibbs as the coach, but I still cheer for the team now that Gibbs is gone. I still cheer for them even though they changed from wearing white jerseys at home (something else that I associated with those great memories). I would still cheer for them if they updated their uniforms entirely. I would still cheer for them if they are named something else.

 

I appreciate you guys trying to explain it but I'm still hoping someone who actually will stop being a fan would try to articulate the thought process to me.

 

 

TD_WashingtonRedskins

 

A few ppl have asked me the questions about not being a fan if we are forced to change the name...here is my take

 

Been a Redskins Fan since my father took me to my first game in 1982 back in Louisiana...He bought me a redskins flag that I proudly waved in the Superdome. 

 

My thing is this the REDSKINS have some how become part of me, through good times and bad. I mean 5 minutes after ppl meet me they know two things...my name and I'm a huge REDSKINS fan.

 

Like you I'm not really use to NOT wearing white jerseys in our Stadium or the Cowboys wearing white in our stadium...BUT they are still the REDSKINS

Joe Gibbs is no longer there but they are still the REDSKINS

The gold pants is something I don't like but they are still the REDSKINS

Dan Synder is not one of my favorite ppl but the team he owns is still the REDSKINS

We endured Norv Turner, Spurrier and 1993-2013 with playoffs 3 or 4 times, but they are still the REDSKINS

 

So us being force to change that it's like the team I've grown up with no longer exist.  To me it's the whole package...the name, the song, the history, our logos, RFK stadium...all of that.  I mean when the Ravens moved to Baltimore until Cleveland got a new team I'm sure alot of those folks felt the Browns were dead....luckily for them they got another team and basically their history was on hiatus...so to speak.

 

 I travel to one game a year at a visiting stadium and get sooo pumped when I see other members of Redskins Nation and I can just say "Hail" and we instantly have a connection.  Going to Fed Ex is just amazing because its OUR stadium.  I live in LA and have been there 12 times....BTW I'm 9-3 at Fed Ex!  I've met Joe Gibbs, got an autographed copy of his book and told him the story of my first skins game I went to when he was the coach.  I even told him a year before he came back "we want you back".  He told me at one point "thanks for the support for all those years"

 

So if this change does happen, I gotta live with it, but much like Chris Cooley retired because he could not see himself playing for another team....I just can't see myself cheering for another team...which is what our team would be....A different team.  I've always said if the team leaves the DC area where they are not "Washington" (which is my favorite city in the world...beyond the Redskins) or have to change their name its just not the same anymore.  Am I closed minded? probably...but that's the way I feel...And no I'm not some pethetic guy who's never had a girlfriend....lol  I'm just a very passionate fan....

 

My only hope is that this name thing dies down and they leave us alone, or as difficult as it would be if we keep our entire logo, colors, and location and have to change to the Warriors I MAY be OK with that....anything else Idk

 

But bascially for 30 years and as infuriating as the Redskins can be, the REDSKINS have been a part of my life and basically anything else....it's just not the same.

 

HTTR

[Xameil]

Other issues...sure.

Trying to reclaim their land. I have no problem with.

The land that they should have is worth a fortune.

Seriously, if you want to do that argument...the land the Native Americans all over the US used to have id worth a ton of fortunes...Manhattan would be the prime example. The land around the casino? Not so much. It was 250,000 acres...yes that a lot of land that in the 1700s went to families that started farms. But to say it is worth a fortune is being silly compared to land that used to be Native American. It does have potential to be worth a fortune since the Oneida tribe will turn that farm land into wasted casino space. Personally, I'd rather have the farm land.

Edit: ok, you have no problem with them trying to reclaim their land? Fine, then I expect you to turn over whatever land you live on back to the tribe that used to own it. Until yo do that, your argument has no base.

[KingGibbs]

I think a name change is inevitable. Instead of going away the noise is getting louder to do such. It will be a sad day for Redskins fans. I'm not sure how I will react until the time comes. I also know that I really don't have an opinion because I am not Native American and who am I or you to say it isn't offensive? Brace yourself. It's going to happen.

 

Warrior Nation!

[grego]

That’s the creature heading up the shakedown of the Redskins.

 

nice find. i'm sure UnWise Mike, being a journalist and all, was about to break this. 

 

 

ok, so lets get this straight. 

 

we have 2 radical native american activists, who have their own made up story about the redskins name that they keep repeating, who want ALL native american themed mascots eliminated. 

 

and a fake indian casino boss - who has been essentially kicked out by his own people he claims to now represent.

 

these are the people putting pressure on the redskins to change their name? do i have that right?

 

gotcha.

[TK]

nice find. i'm sure UnWise Mike, being a journalist and all, was about to break this.

ok, so lets get this straight.

we have 2 radical native american activists, who have their own made up story about the redskins name that they keep repeating, who want ALL native american themed mascots eliminated.

and a fake indian casino boss - who has been essentially kicked out by his own people he claims to now represent.

these are the people putting pressure on the redskins to change their name? do i have that right?

gotcha.

Pretty much.

That article is now most likely making its way around inside Redskins Park right now as well.

[grego]

Pretty much.

That article is now most likely making its way around inside Redskins Park right now as well.

 

 

i'll bet lanny davis already knew about it. i think he'll make sure it gets attention.

 

 

 

http://www.midnightreview.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/tumblr_m1h063Jw431r3enmso1_500.jpg

 

mr. snyder, i'd like to have a word with you. 

[Bang]

Good read.

Nice counterpunch.

~Bang

[Kosher Ham]

Seriously, if you want to do that argument...the land the Native Americans all over the US used to have id worth a ton of fortunes...Manhattan would be the prime example. The land around the casino? Not so much. It was 250,000 acres...yes that a lot of land that in the 1700s went to families that started farms. But to say it is worth a fortune is being silly compared to land that used to be Native American. It does have potential to be worth a fortune since the Oneida tribe will turn that farm land into wasted casino space. Personally, I'd rather have the farm land.

Edit: ok, you have no problem with them trying to reclaim their land? Fine, then I expect you to turn over whatever land you live on back to the tribe that used to own it. Until yo do that, your argument has no base.

 

The land in Manhattan was SOLD. This land was not, it was taken/stolen from the Oneida Indians of NY. That is a huge difference. The government took that land and violated an agreement.  It's their land.

 

As to your edit : Part of the 250,000 acres you reference...is mine...or should be.

[Xameil]

was it yours? so you owned it for how many generations? Did any Native American Tribe own it? Were your relatives here before the Native Americans so that the land was always theirs?

 

Also, go back and read TK's post about the Oneida Tribe representative. Everything he is doing is NOT backed by the Oneida tribe, in fact the land he is taking is his own peoples.

 

Right...right...right...Manhattan was sold....for beads, cloth, hatchets and other odds and ends (the equivalent of $72 I believe). Not much of a sale.

 

I would bet the people that are fighting for their land, the non- Native Americans (since they are having land stolen as well from the same CEO of Turning Stone) paid for the land as well, and I would bet, they paid more then beads for it.

[Larry]

The land in Manhattan was SOLD. This land was not, it was taken/stolen from the Oneida Indians of NY. That is a huge difference. The government took that land and violated an agreement.  It's their land.

So was the entire state of Oklahoma. (In fact, it could be argued, so was the entire US, with the exception of Manhattan.)

The line to demand that it be given back, starts over there.

----------

Edit: And, shouldn't this be in the "The government did bad things to the Indians, 100 years ago" thread?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

You know, I do still enjoy PTI. ESPN rarely does anything of value these days and I think that's one them (including their 30 for 30 docs and, politics aside, Olberman's new show. Around the Horn, preceding PTI, is not.) But listening to Wilbon and Kornheiser talk about the Skins name, the one thing that stands out is just how DISconnected they are from the general public here. To listen to them talk, there's now a growing groundswell in this area for a name change. Huh?

 

I don't think that's too off the mark. A "growing" groundswell doesn't mean it's the majority. But more people seem to be talking about the name around here than 10 years ago. I'd say it's certainly growing. We've had the mayor of DC, the commissioner of the NFL, and the president of the country address the issue over the past couple months. It's a growing issue that will come to a head at some point.

 

And, to be honest, I'm almost resigning myself to the fact that we'll be the Warriors or Braves at some point in the not-so-distant future. I just think that, eventually, it's bound to happen. The more that side of the debate finds Native Americans who would prefer that we change the name, the more it will become the right thing to do (regardless of how genuine some of us believe the intentions are).

 

I'll stand by what I've said...as more and more Native Americans or tribes say that they are offended, we must consider doing something. At that point, it won't matter to me that it was a small match lit by the UnWise Mikes of the world and stoked to grow bigger. Once it's a fire, we have to make a change or we risk ignoring the only opinion that matters.

[Larry]

Maybe Dan Snyder should donate $100,000 to the tribe, (or just the loan of an attorney or three), to help the tribe get their property back from the Casino CEO. Starting with an audit of the corporation.

[Kosher Ham]

was it yours? so you owned it for how many generations? Did any Native American Tribe own it? Were your relatives here before the Native Americans so that the land was always theirs?

 

Also, go back and read TK's post about the Oneida Tribe representative. Everything he is doing is NOT backed by the Oneida tribe, in fact the land he is taking is his own peoples.

 

Right...right...right...Manhattan was sold....for beads, cloth, hatchets and other odds and ends (the equivalent of $72 I believe). Not much of a sale.

 

I would bet the people that are fighting for their land, the non- Native Americans (since they are having land stolen as well from the same CEO of Turning Stone) paid for the land as well, and I would bet, they paid more then beads for it.

 

I don't need to read TK's post again. I know all about Halbritter.

Everything is not, the land aquisition however is.

I look at him as the Jesse Jackson / Al Sharpton mold. Sometimes stirring the pot when there is nothing in it, other times making sure that others realize there is something of substanance in that pot.

 

And to answer your question...yes it was Owned and Stolen from my ancestors.

 

The farmers have no right to that land, it's stolen property.

[daveakl]

[Xameil]

I don't need to read TK's post again. I know all about Halbritter.

Everything is not, the land aquisition however is.

I look at him as the Jesse Jackson / Al Sharpton mold. Sometimes stirring the pot when there is nothing in it, other times making sure that others realize there is something of substanance in that pot.

 

And to answer your question...yes it was Owned and Stolen from my ancestors.

 

The farmers have no right to that land, it's stolen property.

 

So you are one of the Oneida tribe? Funny how the only one who supposedly represents the Oneida Tribe (but does not) is the one that has issue.

 

From my recollection of it all, the land was originally promised to the Oneidas from the US govt. NYS however, did not agree to it, and instead had a different treaty with the tribe...until 1985 when Cuomo wanted tax money from the Oneida tribe.

[Kosher Ham]

Oneida Indian born in NY, raised in DC. I have always felt about Halbritter, he's "that guy".

Same as I feel that certain fans, players, coaches, etc., have not represented the Washington Redskins well with all of their actions.

So as you know, all of my immediate family is of Oneida (sans Dad). None of us support this approach to this topic.

 

I have some of the information around here about the treaty, but at the time NY was not state governed (or something like that) the treaty preceded any an all of that and the land was simply taken because so many Oneida people had moved to other areas of the country, but rightfully the land was still the property of the Oneida Indian Nation.

 

Say you lived in Japan for 2 years and when you came back to the states someone had just taken your home/property ? That's the issue I have. It wasn't their to take. They don't neccesarily want the property, but it is rightfully theirs.

[USS Redskins]

For those of us who love the name and want to keep it - I have been emailing the Commissioners office.

 

officeofcommissioner@nfl.com

 

I have been telling them that they will make a mistake in alienating a large portion of one of their most profitable teams if they pressure the Redskins to change their name.

 

The Oneida nation and white sportswriters spend zero dollars on Redskins tickets, merchandise, products, concessions etc.. Redskins fans are the reason the Redskins are among the most profitable teams in the league.

 

The day the Redskins name is changed is my last day I spend one penny on the NFL.