The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)

[Commander -JB-]

12 minutes ago, GreenFields said:

Ummm 18 Months??? 
 

 

18 months is better than 9 months!  I’ve seen women take 9 months just to name their child Ty’Keischa 😂

[Riggo#44]

10 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

Reminds of somebody pushing that a Red Wolf is what Native Americans believe is their spirit after death or something. Then a few replies were "Source?" "Link?" and the it became a fight. I googled it and couldn't find that specific belief. 

The thing that gets me is the idea that we won't have to argue over the name anymore. To an extent, I am too. Im just tired of the virtue signaling clowns constantly making an issue out of it. But, it's not going to end--people are still going to complain. And, as we've seen with the repeated use of "Redskins=scalps," facts matter little. So, get ready for more of this stupidity. 

[Mr. Sinister]

10 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

[Butthead-ese]

 

So you supported the name--for a long time, correct?

 

Yep

 

Quote

And now you relatively recently did a 180

 

Yep

 

Quote

and now say that anyone that doesn't want the name changed or is having trouble letting go "ignorant." At best that's disingenuous--I call it being a hypocrite. I have no respect for that.

 

I mean, if you'd been paying attention, and not nestled deep in Riggoland: Population 1, I've all but said (numerous times) I was ignorant, because I didn't understand how deep this ran. I didn't care to understand. For me it wasn't a race thing.  It was my favorite team, and I wasn't saying "Screw Native Americans." Never even entered my consciousness.

 

But ignorance was/is no excuse. Not how I was raised. And the more I started to self reflect (a critical tool for any fully grown adult), the more I realized it wasn't about me, it was about the people this was targeting... The people who were affected by this.

 

The actual hypocrisy, was me pretending that I somehow cared about the plight of Natives,  when I 1) had no clue of the depth of culture rape they had endured, 2) the amount of decimation they faced, 3) reducing them to a single train of thought, when they are an entire nation of proud people with different views on various subjects, (picking and choosing who I wanted to side with, if their views were favorable towards mine in regards to keeping the name), and the worst one, 4) thinking all of this was somehow honoring their proud heritage, reducing them to a caricature for people (that largely looked nothing like them) to cheer for, and mock with awful face paint and headdresses.

 

Once I realized my error, and gained that perspective, and stopped being ignorant,  I began to understand this simply was not acceptable,  and had to change.

 

That isn't hypocrisy. That's called having a brain, and a conscience,  and a desire to do right by people, learning from your mistakes, and getting better each day as a result.

 

So yes, we are all ignorant. But we can do better. Ignorance is one thing. Desperately trying to hold onto said ignorance, in the face of reality (something I specifically said,  and something you wouldve noticed,  if you, again, weren't being a butthead) is an entirely different animal.

 

Do what you will with this. 

 

[@DCGoldPants]

5 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

The thing that gets me is the idea that we won't have to argue over the name anymore. To an extent, I am too. Im just tired of the virtue signaling clowns constantly making an issue out of it. But, it's not going to end--people are still going to complain. And, as we've seen with the repeated use of "Redskins=scalps," facts matter little. So, get ready for more of this stupidity. 

 

This year if they manage to play a season. I'm going to call them Washington or the Burgundy & Gold. I'm sure Redskins will slip out from time to time.  Def over the fighting.

[GreenFields]

13 minutes ago, -JB- said:

18 months is better than 9 months!  I’ve seen women take 9 months just to name their child Ty’Keischa 😂

Thanks..... My coffee is now on my keyboard as I was reading that 😂 

This triggered me yesterday: 😡 Its like you all wanted the name changed ... It happens and still the hate from everyone. 

 

 

[Riggo#44]

 

4 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

That isn't hypocrisy. That's called having a brain, and a conscience,  and a desire to do right by people, learning from your mistakes, and getting better each day as a result.

 

That's all well and good to feed your ego, so I assume that gives you the right to condemn others who are still adjusting after something they have spent a very, very long time putting a lot of time and energy into supporting? That is what makes you a hypocrite. That is no different then an evangelical proselytizing and brow beating others who disagree. You're not innocent.

 

However, feel free to DM me (you won't because you don't have the spine). I'm not going to continue to derail the thread on your little obsession.

[Renegade7]

The battle for whether our old gear is racist too has begun.

 

Has the franchise considered replacing our stuff for us?

 

I have a signed Doug Willians jersey, I dont want to get rid of it, first starting black QB to win a super bowl.  Will he sign a new one for me before someone throws paint on me for wearing it?

 

Is that where this is going?  What exactly are we being asked to deal with as fans, and are we about to get left for dead here in the meantime while Snyder goes "through the proper process"?

 

Yes, changing the name and logo wasnt going to be enough if the name and logo was still all over the place.  That's how bad this is gotten, NA saying that doesnr shock me at all.

[Mr. Sinister]

Spine.... on the internet... In private dm's. How truly sad.

 

@Riggo#44 Nah, if I have something to say to you. I'll say it right here. This thread is also about the name change, and the Ignorance surrounding it, so your sad, persecuted victim act is perfectly acceptable here. 

 

Now, do you have anything intelligible to say, or are you done wasting my time?

[Riggo#44]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

I have a signed Doug Willians jersey, I dont want to get rid of it, first starting black QB to win a super bowl.

 

I find it highly ironic that that's now, somehow, racist...

 

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Is that where this is going?  What exactly are we being asked to deal with as fans, and are we about to get left for dead here in the meantime while Snyder goes "through the proper process"?

This is one of the things that should be incorporated in the rebranding--they need to address the old gear at the stadium. It probably shouldn't be allowed--similar to the Chop in KC and Atlanta. But it will probably be left up in the air.

2 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

Spine.... on the internet... In private dm's. How truly sad.

 

@Riggo#44 Nah, if I have something to say to you. I'll say it right here. This thread is also about the name change, and the Ignorance surrounding it, so your sad, persecuted victim act is perfectly acceptable here. 

 

Now, do you have anything intelligible to say, or are you done wasting my time?

 

I have a lot intelligent to say to people who want to be reasonable and aren't seeing red every time I post. I've been carrying on several reasonable conversations with people. So, are you going to address my posts or continue to hurl insults at me? Either way is fine, I don't really care.

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I find it highly ironic that that's now, somehow, racist...

 

It really is, it's been bothering the hell out of me this whole time because I knew this was where we were heading. 

 

This wasnt going to be easy, but being this unprepared we are all going to pay for it in ways that honestly dont make sense.

 

It shouldnt have to be this way.  Schedule your server maintenance or your server will schedule it for you, man.

 

2 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

This is one of the things that should be incorporated in the rebranding--they need to address the old gear at the stadium. It probably shouldn't be allowed--similar to the Chop in KC and Atlanta. But it will probably be left up in the air.

 

They gonna need more then a lawyer that specializes in sexual assault cases for that one. 

 

Cleveland Indians organization is supposed to actually meet with Native Americans, is that even in discussion right now for us?  

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, RansomthePasserby said:

Yeah I’m not gonna lie, the “new” uniforms look good. No frills, just football. 

 

Agreed. I don't have a problem with it. Looks no-nonsense and rugged. 

 

[Mr. Sinister]

12 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 have a lot intelligent to say to people who want to be reasonable and aren't seeing red every time I post. I've been carrying on several reasonable conversations with people. So, are you going to address my posts or continue to hurl insults at me? Either way is fine, I don't really care.

 

And what exactly is it that I haven't addressed? Humor me, sir

[Riggo#44]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

It really is, it's been bothering the hell out of me this whole time because I knew this was where we were heading. 

 

This wasnt going to be easy, but being this unprepared we are all going to pay for it in ways that honestly dont make sense.

 

It shouldnt have to be this way.  Schedule your server maintenance or your server will schedule it for you, man.

 

There is a conversation saying the same thing in the Stadium--we are in this position because of Snyder's continued lack of foresight and incompetence. But, to be fair, many, many of us were caught unaware--I was saying to a friend of mine that I didn't think it would change under Snyder. But here we are...

 

5 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Cleveland Indians organization is supposed to actually meet with Native Americans, is that even in discussion right now for us?

I can see including them if we wanted to continue Native imagery to theme, but we've scrubbed all ties to it. If we are going to go in a completely different direction, why should they be included? I haven't seen what the Indians plans are, so I don't know if they're continuing the Native theme.

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

There is a conversation saying the same thing in the Stadium--we are in this position because of Snyder's continued lack of foresight and incompetence. But, to be fair, many, many of us were caught unaware--I was saying to a friend of mine that I didn't think it would change under Snyder. But here we are...

 

And to be fair to us, it's not our job as fans to be prepared for this, it's the franchise's job.

 

Quote

I can see including them if we wanted to continue Native imagery to theme, but we've scrubbed all ties to it. If we are going to go in a completely different direction, why should they be included? I haven't seen what the Indians plans are, so I don't know if they're continuing the Native theme.

 

If for any reason the question of the gear and stuff that's already out there.  For folks that are old heads and dont want to reduce their basement and leave their kids to decide to do with it when they die, are they racist, exhausted, focusing on COVID? Had this convo with older man at walmart the other day.

[Riggo#44]

14 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

Calling them "****es" is a bridge too far, though

 

14 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

Seems to fit you better than anyone else, lately

 

14 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

That would be a near impossible feat (to be any more sensitive than you already are). I'm sure you'll give it your best tho

 

13 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

You provide all the feelings necessary for this thread, my man. More than enough. Let's see just see how deeper into them you can dig. This is fascinating.  

 

 

13 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

"Slavery<What some joe schmoe I stalk on Twitter said about my dad Max Scherzer"

 

You really  want to embarrass yourself badly here, dont you?

 

Ah, nevermind, question answered, lol

 

13 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

Bye

 

Why don't you start by telling me what you did address there? Absolutely nothing. Meanwhile I discussed it, and disagreed with Destino, over the issue. You see he posted his thoughts in a rational manner. You however are incapable of doing any of that with anything I post.

[TradeTheBeal!]

The haters are out in force.

 

 

[Wayne_Millner]

Somebody with the handle Redwolves DMV just tweeted this. Looks awesome 

[Riggo#44]

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

And to be fair to us, it's not our job as fans to be prepared for this, it's the franchise's job.

 

True, like just about everything else they touch, they failed miserably. However, I think we were all blindsided by FedEx's request to change the name. Little did we know about the utter turmoil among the ownership group--which is a story that has been swept under the rug. That's a significant issue that hasn't been talked about since it was announced. It was probably part of Fred Smith's failed coup (unfortunately), but, Smith doesn't strike me as the type to just say "**** it, I'm done." I'm hoping there's more to come of this.

[spjunkies]

I'm beginning to realize that the internet draws in psychos (me included). The majority of people likely raised their eyebrows at the change and decided to move on with life while we're debating if the Redskins police are going to repossess our old t-shirts. 

 

This **** is hilarious. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Ugh, I was afraid this was going to happen.  Pro name change people saying that "it's not good enough."

 

From that WaPo article:

 

Quote

The decision to use Football Team was “worse than doing nothing,” said Louis Gray, a member of the Osage Nation and former president of Tulsa Indian Coalition Against Racism. He believes the franchise is “extending the name purposefully” because, until the team re-brands, fans will wear their old gear and support a name the team itself has acknowledged as offensive.

 

 

“As Native Americans, we’re used to people saying, ‘Well, maybe next year, maybe two years, maybe this,'” Gray said. “We’re used to waiting, but we really did feel like this time there was a chance for them to make this right. And I’m awfully disappointed they decided to put this off for a year.”

The business decision makes sense, but it doesn’t address the real issue, said David Glass, a member of White Earth Band of Ojibwe and president of National Coalition Against Racism in Sports and Media. He wants the franchise to engage Native communities on how to respectfully transition away from, as well as memorialize, the name “Redskins.”

“How does history see [what the team did after retiring the name]?” Glass asked.

 

Really?  Was it really worse than doing nothing?  That guy would rather have nothing changed AND people wearing their gear?  

 

To borrow a Yogi Berra-ism of sorts, if people don't want to stop wearing their old gear, how are you going to stop them?

 

I've learned in recent years that there are a segment of people that are never happy unless they're complaining about something.  And I guess when you're a hammer, everything is a nail.  It's a safe bet that if changed the name but kept the colors he'd have something to gripe about, too.  

 

No, no, no.  You can't have your cake and eat it too.  The name's changed, the logo is gone.  That's what you wanted, that's what you got.

[Riggo#44]

3 minutes ago, Wayne_Millner said:

Somebody with the handle Redwolves DMV just tweeted this. Looks awesome

 

I do love the ND-style golden helmets.

3 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Really?  Was it really worse than doing nothing?  That guy would rather have nothing changed AND people wearing their gear?  

 

I don't mean to depress you any more than the thought of Tommy Milone as your OD Starter...but this is exactly what I said...

[Mr. Sinister]

3 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

Why don't you start by telling me what you did address there? Absolutely nothing. Meanwhile I discussed it, and disagreed with Destino, over the issue. You see he posted his thoughts in a rational manner. You however are incapable of doing any of that with anything I post.

 

I addressed you irrationally calling an NA representative (again, people who are actually affected by this issue) a ****, which was incredibly disgraceful, cowardly, and tone deaf.

 

You again, doubled down on this nonsense,  with "If the shoe fits"

 

Yet you wanted a "Rational" discussion, lol. I think you are full of crap. Viewing your posts, you rarely come across as rational, or self aware, yet I (prior to yesterday) tried my best to help you see the other side of things, in a relatively positive manner.

 

Frankly, I ignore a lot of the dumb **** you post in most threads because they are largely lacking in coherent thought/common sense (basically a better functioning, echo-brained tr1).

 

Wasn't going to let that slide, though. They wouldn't either, if you said that to them face to face.  If you want rationality or respect, practice what you preach, and don't throw stones in glass houses. 

 

 

[Renegade7]

4 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

True, like just about everything else they touch, they failed miserably. However, I think we were all blindsided by FedEx's request to change the name. Little did we know about the utter turmoil among the ownership group--which is a story that has been swept under the rug. That's a significant issue that hasn't been talked about since it was announced. It was probably part of Fred Smith's failed coup (unfortunately), but, Smith doesn't strike me as the type to just say "**** it, I'm done." I'm hoping there's more to come of this.

 

You keep saying this but it's not true.  Folks weren't blindsided they were in denial for the most part it would get to this point.

 

Go back to page 499 when I bumped the thread, I was practically begging us to get ahead of this once the Floyd protests started because wed be next and the thread got closed instead.

 

I'm not going to second guess doing that because mods were trying to keep the site itself from being closed because of all the protest comments getting out of control. But I was right, we were next.

 

The idea that this was never going to happen was naive of all of us, myself included as fans, and arrogant AF for the owner of the franchise.

 

Stop saying we didnt see it coming with announcers not saying our name on tv, we jus kept our eyes closed and tried focus on how bad a football team we were.

6 minutes ago, spjunkies said:

I'm beginning to realize that the internet draws in psychos (me included). The majority of people likely raised their eyebrows at the change and decided to move on with life while we're debating if the Redskins police are going to repossess our old t-shirts. 

 

This **** is hilarious. 

 

We keep playing with this, court of public opinion is going to start looking at us same way they do folks defending the confederate flag. 

 

Our ignorance and arrogance is coming back to haunt us, this isnt on our terms anymore, we surrendered that oppurtunity by treating it like a joke to argue about on the internet. 

 

That pain  @Mr. Sinister is talking about is real, not digital.  

[Riggo#44]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

I addressed you irrationally calling an NA representative (again, people who are actually affected by this issue) a ****, which was incredibly disgraceful, cowardly, and tone deaf.

 

Seriously? He said changing the name to "Football Team" was WORSE than doing nothing. So he's prefer everyone still walking around in Redskins paraphernalia and the teams still brandishing the logo and name everywhere? Football team is worse than that? Sorry, that's having your cake and eat it too. You did not address that, at all. How in the world is continuing with the name people have said is a slur for decades suddenly worse than calling ourselves "Football Team," which proponents of the name change have been using, for years?

 

You immediately started in on your moral high ground, lecturing, and insults--because you are incapable of reading anything I write without injecting your own vitriol.

[Mr. Sinister]

Just now, Riggo#44 said:

 

Seriously? He said changing the name to "Football Team" was WORSE than doing nothing. So he's prefer everyone still walking around in Redskins paraphernalia and the teams still brandishing the logo and name everywhere? Football team is worse than that? Sorry, that's having your cake and eat it too. You did not address that, at all. How in the world is continuing with the name people have said is a slur for decades suddenly worse than calling ourselves "Football Team," which proponents of the name change have been using, for years?

 

You immediately started in on your moral high ground, lecturing, and insults--because you are incapable of reading anything I write without injecting your own vitriol.

 

I really dont get how some people make it through life with this type of attitude. But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter.

 

Post what you want, from now on, you will not have to cower in apparent fear of me correcting you. I just won't see it.