The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)

[Spaceman Spiff]

Just now, redskinss said:

I'm not trying to pretend I'm not being totally irrational, like I said before arbitrarily picking a team and banking your emotional well being on that particular teams success is completely irrational bit we do it and since I I don't have the home team thing to cling to Redskins is all I got.

I'm warming up to red wolves and for all i know I'll fall head over heels in love with them but for some reason i dont predict it.

 

I'm a redsox fan but honestly care very little if they win or lose, same with the Celtic and bruins, they mildly peak my interest but I have no emotional ties to them whatsoever. 

with the Redskins something just clicked at a very very young age and my whole identity is tied directly to them, just feel like something is dying in me and I'll have to make an huge effort to fall in love with the new team and I'm not sure that's something that can be accomplished consciously. 

 

Dude, wtf, you root for all the New England teams except the BEST one?  How the hell did you land on the Redskins?  

1 minute ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I became a big, loud, obnoxious Nats fan,

 

Oh, ok, so it's not just me that thinks of you that way.

 

 

[Riggo#44]

1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Oh, ok, so it's not just me that thinks of you that way.

 

 

 

There would be a line wrapping around Nats park who would agree with you--my wife included. My 6 yr old daughter has shown signs of my **** talking prowess. I am a very proud father!

[spjunkies]

I think a good portion of our fans are outside of the DMV and quite frankly that is starting to die off because of how **** we've been for far too long. When this site started this team was the #2-3 valued team in the United States, I think we've sunk to around 10 now.

 

We desperately need to fix this team because the Titanic is continuing to sink.

[redskinss]

6 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Dude, wtf, you root for all the New England teams except the BEST one?  How the hell did you land on the Redskins?  

born and lived my entire 45 years in Massachusetts, I get asked all the time how I became a Redskins fan and since I was so young I just answer that it was most likely that they were a good team.

also at the time the cowboys were very popular and I've always liked being different. 

 

for the first 20 years of my Redskins fandom the patriots sucked.

 

it's one of the reasons why this is so hard for me, if it was easy I'd have done it a long time ago and started wearing Brady jerseys to annual parades.

[Riggo#44]

2 minutes ago, spjunkies said:

I think a good portion of our fans are outside of the DMV and quite frankly that is starting to die off because of how **** we've been for far too long. When this site started this team was the #2-3 valued team in the United States, I think we've sunk to around 10 now.

 

We desperately need to fix this team because the Titanic is continuing to sink.

 

We're 7th in the NFL. And we ALL know the reason why...

[Spaceman Spiff]

2 minutes ago, redskinss said:

born and raised my entire 45 years in Massachusetts, I get asked all the time how I became a Redskins fan and since I was so young I just answer that it was most likely that they were a good team.

also at the time the cowboys were very popular and I've always liked being different. 

 

also for the first 20 years of my Redskins fandom the patriots sucked.

 

it's one of the reasons why this is so hard for me, if it was easy I'd have done it a long time ago and started wearing Brady jerseys to annual parades.

 

Well, that makes sense.  It's easy to say **** the Cowboys and root for their rival.

[MartinC]

18 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I became a big, loud, obnoxious Nats fan, because they play here. They're my hometown team. I think that they play here supersedes all else. I'm not happy with, nor really agree with the reasons behind it, but it'll grow on me. Assuming...you know...Snyder.

 

Probably different for someone like me who has no tie to the area.

[Riggo#44]

12 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

Probably different for someone like me who has no tie to the area.

 

Yeah if I were a remote fan, it would be tougher. Given the chaotic state of Snyders ownership, it's going to be difficult as it is. I've already watched less than half the games the last couple of years.

[Mr. Sinister]

He really just needs to be forced to sell.

[Skinsinparadise]

There are multiple Native American leaders who talked about not liking an Indian mascot period.  As for whether they are right or wrong for feeling that way or many Indians may disagree with those people, I gather is a fair conversation.  But I am not sure if its an apples to apples comparison to other NFL teams with a tie to a heritage/country.

 

I have some Celtic and Viking in my DNA.  I've been to both Ireland and every Scandinavian and UK country multiple times (aside from Northern Ireland).  And from what I've observed those countries see those ties as a matter of pride without much cognitive dissonance about it, at least that's how it's hit me in this era of time.  I've been to multiple Viking type museums.  The impression I get about that era from the locals is that it was the height of that region's powers so they have a feeling of pride about it -- similar to Italians about the Roman Empire, etc. 

 

The Celtic angle I guess is more complex -- its DNA, culture, etc.  It's intermingled with the UK countries, too.  Wales especially.  SW England.  Some Scotland.  Viking-Scandinavian blood also in the mix often with UK countries.   

 

It's clear that at least some Native Americans have some issues with being branded as warrior like by sports teams while many are OK with it.  I'd hazard a guess if we'd poll let's say Norwegian Americans, not a soul or maybe a handful of people would have an issue with the Viking name.  I'd guess the same or close enough for the Irish, Welsh, etc as the Celtic name. 

 

[clskinsfan]

It is time for Snyder to go. He made a huge spectacle about the foundation he was creating to "provide meaningful and measurable resources that provide genuine opportunities for Tribal communities." And then in 2019 HE SPENDS NOT ONE DIME on it? He is an absolute piece of garbage. Period. 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/redskins/2020/07/08/redskins-dan-snyders-native-american-foundation-gave-0-2018/5384705002/

[Jumbo]

3 hours ago, Sticksboi05 said:

 

I can kind of understand for remote fans of the team but (and I don't mean to cause any ruckus or belittle anyone) the team represents Washington D.C. and its surrounding areas ... residents past and present.

 

The fan base was built because they were the 'Washington' Redskins not because of the specific term Redskins. Wes Unseld recently passed - it's not like we all didn't care because we're no longer the Bullets, he played for the D.C. team. Of course everyone anywhere is welcome and encouraged to be a fan, and we know the Gen Zers don't even care about their hometowns anymore, but new name, it's still Washington's team.

 

It will in all likelihood, still be the burgundy and gold fighting for old D.C.

 

 

 

very long--you're all warned   

 

i'm reminded that i am a long-distance fan and have been since i "officially" designated myself a redskins fan...i was 7 and as many regs here know, i grew up in ak and have resided in various locations in the pac nw since then...i was almost always the only redskins fan in any circle i traveled for many years (no social media)

 

hell, when i was a kid we had three tv stations only (abc/nbc/cbs) and i'd have to wait for the one to two week tape-delay of shipping hard copy tapes of the games to anchorage for broadcast....also, in what may seem a little surprising given some of my posting on the name change, while there were players/coaches and other aspects of the team that drew me in, it was really the name and mainly-ignorant but positive/admiring white kid associations i made with "american indians" and perhaps some larger "supporter of the underdog/oppressed" tendencies i showed in childhood and still hold

 

and i lsupported the name in the typical manner and with most of the same arguments for all of that time, though not obsessively or vitriolically cuz i've never seen that kind or level of response as showing much maturity or intelligence (even in my youth) or even being healthy in such a context

 

that type of reaction seemed, and still does usually, unacceptably self-indulgent at an immature level ...and anyone, male in particular, who bristles at such a charge in general should get real...the reality is adult males often present adolescent level responses/behaviors to all sorts of things on a routine basis...think about it, think about it in yourself  

 

but in the last decade i had newer and increased interactions with tribes of wa and ore ....mainly profession-driven, but several close social connections, too, primarily to three different regional tribes...and i'd noticed some seemingly different trends (to me) in my interactions when this topic would arise

 

one, there was rarely any open and easy positive reaction to the name or my being a fan if it arose...it would happen, but rarely and not as often as in my alaska days (for those into nuance, this gets even more complicated when you factor in that indigenous alaskan peoples, inc. those called "indians" like the tlingit,  differentiate themselves)

 

what was more the norm was a change of topic after a few neutral or somewhat uninterested or dismissive but not hostile comments, and moving on but no interest in extending the dialogue....and the other thing just more actual dislike for its use on several levels--inc. logos/symbols

 

though usually it was fairly low-key and was often about "reductionism" and "misrepresentation"  (my terms)...and that started to become a little more assertive with younger folk of the tribes, but i can't say with any factual authority what percentages of these tribes felt which way of course

 

still, i am mindful of those experiences as i make my own choices of change 

 

as an analogy to making  such change for anyone...look at how the dem and gop parties have changed what their brand means in the last century...more in connection to our topic, and going beyond the n-word, think of how certain 'outdated' but still well-known imagery and terms for black people---specifically pic******* and porch****** (my asterisks)  were considered fine and even positive (said to be "affectionate"), and that was even among much of 'civilized' society and supporters of emancipation back in the day...now it's startling to many of us to think of those terms being ok with the same people for whom the n-word had become taboo

 

things not only change, the change is often simply fitting and appropriate to the broader and more informed understandings of the times in play...like marrying 13 year olds, a matter considered not only socially ok or even desirable  by many 'decent' people here and in societies across the globe for centuries, but also argued then as perfectly logical biologically, for another example

 

and that brings me to the close of this (i can hear the jabs forming in some minds )...."choice"...keep in mind that even under some powerful emotional drivers you still have another part of your cognitive response that supports your choosing how much you're actually '"ruled" by that emotion....there's the alternative of managing it and even detaching from it to more thoroughly assess a situation with less controlling influence from those feelings

 

but it's an active choice needing to be consciously made in many instances...analysis and choice don't get a chance to play their best roles unless some work is applied

 

 

[Xameil]

2 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

This is a great explanation--and perfectly understandable. However, it doesn't explain the opposition to Chief or Brave (unless Braves were strictly considered soldiers). Cheifs were a source of leadership and wisdom, correct?

The way I was told is that Chief is a position of high regard and very much earned. So just using the name, at least to the people I talked to about it felt it cheapened it a bit.

[Mr. Sinister]

What would be needed for him to relinquish ownership?

 

Could the other owners give him a vote of no confidence? Or could another billionaire step up to buy him out? How could that work?

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Dude, wtf, you root for all the New England teams except the BEST one?  How the hell did you land on the Redskins?  

I have the same teams, but with a better explanation. I lived in Virginia until I was 7 and was a diehard football and Skins fan by then, but wasn't much into other sports yet. Then moved to New England after that and became a fan of the other sports. Which was easy for me because in those formative years, I got to root for Yaz, Fred Lynn, Bobby Orr, Phil Esposito, and eventually Larry Bird. 

[Conn]

12 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

What would be needed for him to relinquish ownership?

 

Could the other owners give him a vote of no confidence? Or could another billionaire step up to buy him out? How could that work?

 

I wonder if the three minority owners finding a single buyer for their total 40% of the shares, who also wanted to buy at least 11%+ of Snyder's, would help. Because then he still owns almost as much as he does now but gets to disappear on his Yacht forever while still benefiting from his only profitable business. 

 

I'd prefer Snyder own 0% of the shares of course. Total removal of the poison. 

 

Has a majority owner in the NFL ever sold just enough of his stake to willingly take the demotion to minority owner, or do they always just divest entirely? 

[wrilbo67]

When it comes down to it, the owners are super-supportive of each other.  They might pay lip service to Snyder or Jerrah's greed, but on that same front, those two give the rest of them the leeway to act just as greedy with the plausible deniability that, "this is what it takes to compete in this league now." 

 

The only way I could see them forcing a sale would be if Snyder ended up in a Donald Sterling type of situation where the entire league's revenue situation was threatened (e.g.: If people started pressuring every NFL sponsor to not sponsor the league at all until the Redskins change their name).  It's possible, but its still way further off IMO.  Who knows though, things change quickly these days.

[redskinss]

good response jumbo and I agree. 

I do believe I can consciously detach myself from the name and all my sentimentality towards it, I dont want to, I like being hopelessly addicted to and emotionally attached to the Redskins and I enjoy it being a huge part of my identity (ask anybody who knows me to the first thing that comes to mind when I'm mentionined and they'll all say Redskins) but I realize I'm going to have to.

 

what I don't think I can do consciously is reattach myself to the new team.

time will tell.

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 minute ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

I wonder if the three minority owners finding a single buyer for their total 40% of the shares, who also wanted to buy at least 11%+ of Snyder's, would help. Because then he still owns almost as much as he does now but gets to disappear on his Yacht forever while still benefiting from his only profitable business. 

 

I'd prefer Snyder own 0% of the shares of course. Total removal of the poison. 

 

Has a majority owner in the NFL ever sold just enough of his stake to willingly take the demotion to minority owner, or do they always just divest entirely? 

That doesn't really mesh with anything we know or believe about Snyder. He's going to only take a (relatively) low amount fo money so he can no longer have control or be part of the club of 32 owners? That would be completely shocking for me. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

6 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

I have the same teams, but with a better explanation. I lived in Virginia until I was 7 and was a diehard football and Skins fan by then, but wasn't much into other sports yet. Then moved to New England after that and became a fan of the other sports. Which was easy for me because in those formative years, I got to root for Yaz, Fred Lynn, Bobby Orr, Phil Esposito, and eventually Larry Bird. 

 

I always knew you were too good to be true...

[Rufus T Firefly]

Just now, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

I always knew you were too good to be true...

I rarely hear that outside of the moments when i remove my pants. 

[Dissident2]

58 minutes ago, Xameil said:

The way I was told is that Chief is a position of high regard and very much earned. So just using the name, at least to the people I talked to about it felt it cheapened it a bit.

 

The man who created the logo, Blackie Wetzel, is on record saying that he never minded being called a "Redskin" and was proud of that term. He said what he hated the most was when white people called him "Chief." 

[Bonez3]

I just pop in time to time to wait for official announcement,

 

I am signing off of the team, an unbelievable statement for me but suprisingly easy to make. My real hope is that all NA imagery goes, that would be fair. My only contention all along is that is was not a 'slur'. No more than any word can be transformed to a slur, including 'cowboy'. 

 

Anyway, that 'letter to fans leaving' was so poorly written and not capturing the true depth to the fans side (albeit small comparatively to those offended). However, my kids could care less about football, the product sucks and has sucked for years, the players are aloof and prima donnas and I'm not a DC native.

 

Just a sad fan waiting for the divorce papers to arrive

[redskinss]

that's another thing that makes this so painful, my hometown team has been kicking the bejesus out of the rest of the league for the last 20 years while I stuck around faithfully to this dumpster fire of an organization, I almost wish I had bailed 20 years ago so I could have at least enjoyed football for the last two decades. 

 

I dont really mean that but it's part of the emotional roller coaster I'm on with this whole thing.

[Jumbo]

1 minute ago, redskinss said:

good response jumbo and I agree. 

I do believe I can consciously detach myself from the name and all my sentimentality towards it, I dont want to, I like being hopelessly addicted to and emotionally attached to the Redskins and I enjoy it being a huge part of my identity (ask anybody who knows me to the first thing that comes to mind when I'm mentionined and they'll all say Redskins) but I realize I'm going to have to.

 

what I don't think I can do consciously is reattach myself to the new team.

time will tell.

 

 

oh if this comes to pass as appears, i will feel--already do--a sense of real loss and a degree of genuine sorrow because like you and riggo and many others---hell most all of us---i really have a lot of emotion invested into all things redskins; it's the nature of the fan-atic, and emotions "always come first in the brain"

 

the detachment i refer is more a temporary suspension to explore a troubling topic more completely and tbf the last few years of just about this whole org a **** circus and getting that much worse has weakened my passion, though not my love or loyalty, to the team (see? a lotta emo talk there )