The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)

[Spaceman Spiff]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Good article IMO about fandom and the name below.  It's mostly how i feel.  But like I've been saying fandom is an individual choice so everyone's take is valid.

 

 

 

 

Great article, sums up my feelings perfectly.

 

Quote

The Redskins clearly matter to you.

But it's not because of what they were called.

It's because of what they did, and how what they did made you feel. And those feelings aren't going to simply disappear if the name does.

"We want Dallas!" 70 Chip. The second quarter of Super Bowl XXII. The Seat Cushion Game. The Monday Night Miracle. "E-lectrifying!" "You like that?!"

Those are going to remain etched in your minds regardless of what Dan Snyder, Ron Rivera and others settle on. If they follow through on what appears inevitable.

You're really going to bail on that past, and the hope for a future like that past, because what's written on the uniforms and what's shouted in the fight song will be different? Seriously?

 

Quote

Yes, it's going to be a monumental adjustment, and no one really likes making monumental adjustments. That's another factor in this that I do hear you on. 

The tab you clicked on at the top of this website to land on this story or the @NBCSRedskins Twitter handle you followed to find the link will have to be altered.

Ryan Kerrigan and Nick Sundberg and Brandon Scherff and Jonathan Allen, veterans who've made their careers here, will have to get used to taking the field under a completely new moniker.

Think, too, of all the stadium signage and shirts and holiday ornaments and blankets and license plate holders and coffee mugs and social media bios and EVERYTHING else that will become outdated if this decision is finalized. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

some more from the WP article

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/07/08/redskins-name-review-appears-be-an-informal-process-with-no-set-deadline/?utm_campaign=wp_redskins&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

Crystal Echo Hawk, the founder of IllumniNative, an organization that brings together Native American story tellers and grass roots leaders and also opposes the Redskins name, expressed concern that talk of honoring both Native Americans and the military with the new name would mean the team would continue to use native imagery, something she believes many Native Americans would oppose.

 

“There is no good way to honor native people by making mascots around them,” she said.

[Riggo#44]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

“There is no good way to honor native people by making mascots around them,” she said.

 

I honestly don't understand this. How is using a native themes different from Celtics, Vikings, Fighting Irish, Saints, or the approximate 5000 other ethnic mascots in use today. it seems tone deaf to me--based in anger and rigidity that they so decry. There are so many stories of Native kids who get a source of pride seeing the Redskins emblem--I understand the virtol around Chief Wahoo, it's very similar to the anti-semetic propaganda the Nazis used--but how is Chiefs, Braves, etc hateful? It seems to shut out the Native population with an opposing view.

 

Honestly, it's similar to how Dan Snyder deals with contrary opinions.

[Spaceman Spiff]

23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

some more from the WP article

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/07/08/redskins-name-review-appears-be-an-informal-process-with-no-set-deadline/?utm_campaign=wp_redskins&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

 

 

“There is no good way to honor native people by making mascots around them,” she said.

 

I would disagree, I think the Florida State Seminoles and the Seminole tribe would disagree, too.  To her credit, I believe that it's a hard thing to do but it can be done and it can be done well.  I'm assuming there would be no changing her mind, no matter what.

 

https://unicomm.fsu.edu/messages/relationship-seminole-tribe-florida/

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/11/native-imagery-in-college-sports/417036/

 

 

[Dissident2]

30 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

“There is no good way to honor native people by making mascots around them,” she said.

 

I also don't understand this blanket statement. I can understand it in specific contexts, ala Chief Wahoo or something that's a caricature or stereotype, but I can't understand it with something like our current logo. I've seen the statement made before, but rarely with an explanation as to the "why." I would like to hear that explanation as to why ANY NA imagery in a logo dishonors that specific culture with no exceptions. 

 

Part of the problem to me has always been the use of "mascot." That word always seems like it refers to something cheesy or goofy like the San Diego chicken. I've never viewed our logo as a "mascot," even though I get that the definition of the word fits. But "mascot" has always seemed like the wrong choice when it comes to a logo. Is the spear we had on other versions of our helmet considered a "mascot"? We've never had in my lifetime someone dressed as a NA running around on the sidelines. That to me has always fit more with "mascot," and objections to that I completely understand. 

 

But a simple image that basically says, "This image represents character traits and qualities that we hold in esteem and want our team to reflect"? I can't understand how that dishonors. Again, this is why I'd love to see a huge effort to engage as much NA input on this as possible before a final decision is made. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

25 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

I honestly don't understand this. How is using a native themes different from Celtics, Vikings, Fighting Irish, Saints, or the approximate 5000 other ethnic mascots in use today.

 

Maybe it isn't except that most of those aren't extremely marginalized and have a history of being massacred which makes the "honor" ring a little hollow. 

 

Also, NA don't have to answer for other mascots. They only have to answer for the NA ones that offend them. So that's irrelevant

 

 

[Sticksboi05]

10 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I think we can all agree who the real problem is: people who stop being fans if the name is changed!

 

I can kind of understand for remote fans of the team but (and I don't mean to cause any ruckus or belittle anyone) the team represents Washington D.C. and its surrounding areas ... residents past and present.

 

The fan base was built because they were the 'Washington' Redskins not because of the specific term Redskins. Wes Unseld recently passed - it's not like we all didn't care because we're no longer the Bullets, he played for the D.C. team. Of course everyone anywhere is welcome and encouraged to be a fan, and we know the Gen Zers don't even care about their hometowns anymore, but new name, it's still Washington's team.

 

It will in all likelihood, still be the burgundy and gold fighting for old D.C.

 

 

[LD0506]

I just kinda want to get out from under this and watch as they go after the just-won-a-SB signed-a-QB-to-1/2bil Chiefs

 

THAT will be a show

[dfitzo53]

I just want to throw out some food for thought.

 

One Native American I knew explained it to me this way: There are so many aspects to Native American culture (and so many different NA cultures) that most of them don't feel being reduced to a warrior mascot is an honor.

 

Many tribes weren't warlike at all. It's not a part of their heritage they want to celebrate, and it distills a complex group of cultures into an oversimplified, one-dimensional image that many of them don't identify with.

 

I think the case of the Seminoles is very different because a specific tribe has been involved in speaking directly about the situation.

 

Yes, you can say the same thing about Celts, Vikings and Spartans, but how many people actually identify as living members of those groups?

 

The Fighting Irish has always been a dumb mascot. 

[redskinss]

I hear all the people saying they don't understand the fans that will abandon the team when they change the name and I'm over here not understanding why they don't understand. 

I honestly have no idea how I'll feel, it's like if someone asked me if I'd leave my wife if she was unfaithful, I honestly don't know, I'd try to come to grips with it, I'd try to move on but I don't know how my heart is going to feel until it happens.

I wont abandon the team, if I cant get my heart to feel the same way about the new team as I have about the Redskins all my life then I will feel as though the team has abandoned me.

I'm not gonna pout and take my basketball and go home, this isn't about being a baby because I didn't get my way,  its simply about not knowing if I can love the warriors or generals or whatever the same way I've loved the Redskins. 

I can't explain it any better than I have multiple times except to say that in my mind once the name is gone I feel like I'd be free to pick any of the 32 teams in the league and it'd be no different than just trying to adjust to a new team name, and since I haven't been able to do that for the last 25 years why would now be any different?

[RichmondRedskin88]

 

Wanted to share this. I do think there are many NA that think we honor them and not disgrace them that others suggest. 

[Riggo#44]

 

38 minutes ago, dfitzo53 said:

One Native American I knew explained it to me this way: There are so many aspects to Native American culture (and so many different NA cultures) that most of them don't feel being reduced to a warrior mascot is an honor.

This is a great explanation--and perfectly understandable. However, it doesn't explain the opposition to Chief or Brave (unless Braves were strictly considered soldiers). Cheifs were a source of leadership and wisdom, correct?

[Riggo#44]

So, it was all for show and he's a real POS.

 

 

 

[Mr. Sinister]

I'm not surprised in the slightest

[Captain Wiggles]

Still needs to sell the team. Completely tone deaf and just doesn't give af.

[Spaceman Spiff]

56 minutes ago, redskinss said:

I hear all the people saying they don't understand the fans that will abandon the team when they change the name and I'm over here not understanding why they don't understand. 

I honestly have no idea how I'll feel, it's like if someone asked me if I'd leave my wife if she was unfaithful, I honestly don't know, I'd try to come to grips with it, I'd try to move on but I don't know how my heart is going to feel until it happens.

I wont abandon the team, if I cant get my heart to feel the same way about the new team as I have about the Redskins all my life then I will feel as though the team has abandoned me.

I'm not gonna pout and take my basketball and go home, this isn't about being a baby because I didn't get my way,  its simply about not knowing if I can love the warriors or generals or whatever the same way I've loved the Redskins. 

I can't explain it any better than I have multiple times except to say that in my mind once the name is gone I feel like I'd be free to pick any of the 32 teams in the league and it'd be no different than just trying to adjust to a new team name, and since I haven't been able to do that for the last 25 years why would now be any different?

 

I'm confused...So you root for the laundry and the logo?  Or you root for the players and coaches and the city/region they represent?  You rooted for the Redskins last year.  You rooted for Terry McLaurin, Dwayne Haskins, Adrian Peterson, Brandon Scherff, Ryan Kerrigan, Derrius Guice, Montez Sweat, Jonathan Allen, Landon Collins and a lot of others.

 

Those guys are going to be back on the team this year and say all of those players are playing for the Washington Warriors.  So were you really rooting for those players or the jersey and team name they represented?

[MartinC]

2 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

Maybe it isn't except that most of those aren't extremely marginalized and have a history of being massacred which makes the "honor" ring a little hollow. 

 

Also, NA don't have to answer for other mascots. They only have to answer for the NA ones that offend them. So that's irrelevant

 

 

 

The Norse in Saxon Britain might disagree with the 'no slaughter of vikings' thing. But that's probably off topic and they were invaders ...

 

(By the way has anyone pointed out to Minnesota that the term viking  - no capital- refers to the act of raiding and was not a term applied to a group of people? As in a group of Norseman are going on a viking - maybe they should think about a change) 

[Riggo#44]

1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Those guys are going to be back on the team this year and say all of those players are playing for the Washington Warriors.  So were you really rooting for those players or the jersey and team name they represented?

 

The Nationals came in and were able to establish a foothold, the Washington Whatevers will to. There will be an adjustment, but it'll get there. Snyder selling the team would be a huge boost.

[MartinC]

11 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

So, it was all for show and he's a real POS.

 

 

The POS bit is not news to many. Whatever happens re the name if he was to sell up that would be a really good day for the organization.

[redskinss]

1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Those guys are going to be back on the team this year and say all of those players are playing for the Washington Warriors.  So were you really rooting for those players or the jersey and team name they represented?

yes they will be back next year, but what about the year after that or ten years.

 

should I root for the packers now that preston smith is a packer?

 

i root for the Redskins, and when players come over to the Redskins they assimilate and become Redskins but when they leave they are no longer Redskins and I dont root for them anymore. 

 

I dont know how that process will work in reverse but I fear it wont be the same.

[Riggo#44]

1 minute ago, MartinC said:

 

The POS bit is not news to many. Whatever happens re the name if he was to sell up that would be a really good day for the organization.

 

Oh I think we are at a consensus that he's a POS--but exploiting the poorest of the poor for PR points is despicable. I knew he sucked but...wow.

[MartinC]

8 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I'm confused...So you root for the laundry and the logo?  Or you root for the players and coaches and the city/region they represent?  You rooted for the Redskins last year.  You rooted for Terry McLaurin, Dwayne Haskins, Adrian Peterson, Brandon Scherff, Ryan Kerrigan, Derrius Guice, Montez Sweat, Jonathan Allen, Landon Collins and a lot of others.

 

Those guys are going to be back on the team this year and say all of those players are playing for the Washington Warriors.  So were you really rooting for those players or the jersey and team name they represented?

 

I tend to agree with you - BUT the players change (and they change often these days). The name, the logo  - they stay and are link back to past glory days. I am a fan of the team much more than any specific player(s).

[Spaceman Spiff]

4 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

I tend to agree with you - BUT the players change (and they change often these days). The name, the logo  - they stay and are link back to past glory days. I am a fan of the team much more than any specific player(s).

 

I get that, too.  But if you grew up in the DMV area and liked football, you most likely would have rooted for the DC NFL team no matter what their name was.  I also get that some people were attracted to the team because of the colors, name, logo though. 

[redskinss]

I'm not trying to pretend I'm not being totally irrational, like I said before arbitrarily picking a team and banking your emotional well being on that particular teams success is completely irrational but we do it and since I I don't have the home team thing to cling to Redskins is all I got.

I'm warming up to red wolves and for all i know I'll fall head over heels in love with them but for some reason i dont predict it.

 

I'm a redsox fan but honestly care very little if they win or lose, same with the Celtic and bruins, they mildly peak my interest but I have no emotional ties to them whatsoever. 

with the Redskins something just clicked at a very very young age and my whole identity is tied directly to them, just feel like something is dying in me and I'll have to make a huge effort to fall in love with the new team and I'm not sure that's something that can be accomplished consciously. 

[Riggo#44]

5 minutes ago, MartinC said:

I tend to agree with you - BUT the players change (and they change often these days). The name, the logo  - they stay and are link back to past glory days. I am a fan of the team much more than any specific player(s).

 

I became a big, loud, obnoxious Nats fan, because they play here. They're my hometown team. I think that they play here supersedes all else. I'm not happy with, nor really agree with the reasons behind it, but it'll grow on me. Assuming...you know...Snyder.