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The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)


Alaskins

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Watching politically correct dbags out themselves as exactly what they are (not actually caring about the people they claim to be sticking up for, just trying to find righteous fights to fight so they feel better about themselves) is so, so awesome.

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This is a football team.  All of our support/non-support matters. 

 

Once again:  THIS IS A FOOTBALL TEAM.  OUR FOOTBALL TEAM. 

Please remember this.  And remember that there are countless (unless a direct count has been issued) other teams, both in HS and the all-correct NCAA, named for the folks that were here before the Vikings, and that means waaaaayyyyy before Colwhoeverhewas.

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What is more arrogant?

Telling someone they shouldn't be offended

or

telling someone they Should be offended

or the new one..

It doesn't matter IF they are offended or not....

This society of self righteous do gooders and the morally superior really chap my cookies.

HTTR

How about none of the above, because it seems this whole issue is a non issue to 90% of the Native Americans that were polled by a "change the name" biased source.

I think there are more old white and black men and women more offended then Native Americans. In fact most Native Americans I know are Redskins fans...some because of the name. I also know Native Americans that are offended by the name Chiefs. Since in their eyes that's more derogatory.

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Watching politically correct dbags out themselves as exactly what they are (not actually caring about the people they claim to be sticking up for, just trying to find righteous fights to fight so they feel better about themselves) is so, so awesome.

I'm also on the anti-PC train for the most part though I am a proponent of respect. Thing is, as this and other polls/studies indicate the Redskins' name is neither offensive nor disrespectful to most of the party it is supposed to injure. Therefore, this shouldn't be an argument.

 

Remember when PC was the main province of Republicans and conservatives. Ban the book drives. Ban that devil rock and roll or ban rap. It was stupid then and it is stupid now that liberals have marched for their own brand of PCism.

 

Mind you, I still believe in respect and the golden rule.

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Mind you, I still believe in respect and the golden rule.

 

Sure, and that makes sense.

 

My issue has, and always will be, when someone else decides what my intent is when I do or say something.

 

When you have a case like the "N-word", you'd find it very hard to justify the idea that I, a 30 something suburban white male, have some historical context to lean on that says I can use the word in a respectful manner.  I'm not exactly well versed on the long history of racism in our country against black people/african americans, so maybe I'm wrong and that context exists, but I know enough to feel confident feeling that it doesn't exist and therefore I do not attempt to justify use of the word.

 

But when it comes to the word Redskin, there is a historical context that is honorable. There is a reference to it that is not pejorative, or disrespectful, or offensive. There is a reference to it that commands a certain level of respect, or appeals to something that is great. This poll, as well as history books, and the modern Tribes using the word themselves all support this context.

 

So when I see one of these name-changers tell me that my use and intent of the word is wrong, that their view is the only one that is correct, and that if I don't agree with them it's simply because I'm a racist (if for no reason other than I value the name of my favorite sports team more so than the dignity, feelings, or identity of real people) I start to get angry with them. It's one thing to tell me, "Hey, there are some people that are offended by this"; it's another to tell me, "Your intent or use is wrong, irrelevant, and unimportant, the only intent or use is this other use that I'm imposing on you".  That's where you cross the line.

 

The name-changers aren't being respectful. They never were. Likewise, they never were factually correct. They were just obnoxious jerks. They put their fingers in their ears and said - LA LA LA LA RACISTS LA LA LA LA.

 

The best news out of all of this, as others have pointed out, is that after years and millions spent on the campaign the poll shows that the opinion of native americans has changed not at all. Zero movement. I was worried that the movement would win if for no other reason than they had time on their side, they could just wear everyone down. For the part of our society that matters, they've failed to do so. So cheers to that.

 

Now if we could find a way to channel the do-gooders energy into doing something that actually matters.

 

You know, the same people who mocked the organization when they started a charity and found a way to funnel money into tribes to help a little.

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I don't think this is "PC" per say. I do hate the term "PC" because of how it is used (please don't say anything to make white people feel uncomfortable)

 

However, strong data is very strong data. This poll is a bombshell considering who did it, the methodology done, and the absolutely overwhelming result. If the results were reversed, we damn well know that this would close the issue, and tomorrow Dan Snyder would be announcing the team being called the Monuments going forward. 

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 This poll is a bombshell considering who did it,

 

The WP deserves some props for this.

 

I've given them a hard time. Between their ridiculous article on 'sueing grandma', their editorial board making the announcement it did, the way certain writers behaved, and (the worst of all) the way they handled reporting Huff leaving the radio broadcast (that was just disgusting) I had grown to hate them. And to a certain extent, I'll never forgive them or forget about it, especially the way they used Huff as a pawn to try to embarrass the organization and in the process were just completely disrespectful to him...

 

But they ran this poll and released it despite us all knowing it didn't fit their agenda. Not only that, they put it on the front page. And then they released a second article about said article, going into depth to justify why their poll is an adequate representation.

 

I would have never expected that from them. Ever. So, props to them.

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If Snyder wants to end this, he should open the checkbook. The sense I get from Native Americans is "who cares about a name, we have REAL problems, and we need help."

 

I'm not finding a solid number, but it seems like 5 million is a fair estimate of the number of NA's in the country. The name change battle is nothing but a battle of public opinion. Donate enough to make an actual difference to them and you'll win that battle. I think with only 5 million in population, it's feasible. You'll defend your trademark and have some actual positive press for once. 

 

(actually, who am I kidding about the positive press thing -- UnWise Mike will be holier than thou to the grave)

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I don't think this is "PC" per say. I do hate the term "PC" because of how it is used (please don't say anything to make white people feel uncomfortable)

 

However, strong data is very strong data. This poll is a bombshell considering who did it, the methodology done, and the absolutely overwhelming result. If the results were reversed, we damn well know that this would close the issue, and tomorrow Dan Snyder would be announcing the team being called the Monuments going forward. 

 

Honestly, the only remaining talking point for those adamant about the Redskins changing their name is this: If 9% of Native Americans being offended isn't enough to consider changing the name, then what is a significant amount? 

 

In short, if it is offensive to some Native Americans, what is the tipping point? I think it's a fair conversation to have quite honestly. Is it OK if 9% are offended but not OK if that number ever climbs to 15%? 20%?

 

To me, the trend is important. Additionally, the actual stance of those who aren't offended is important, which is why the specific wording of these polls is so critical. For my personal opinion, the opposite of "offended" isn't "not offended" it's "honored by" or "proud of" the name. So, if the number of Native Americans who LIKE the name, not just those who are indifferent, outnumbers those who are offended, then I think the organization is doing right by the community to remain as the Redskins. 

 

That was very long, but I hope that makes sense. 

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Remember when PC was the main province of Republicans and conservatives. Ban the book drives. Ban that devil rock and roll or ban rap.

 

You need to re-read your history. :)

 

Democrats like Al Gore (and his wife Tipper) and Joseph Lieberman were some of the leading officials dragging Rock and Roll artists before Congress to complain about lyrics.

 

It was a bipartisan effort. :)

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I don't think this is "PC" per say. I do hate the term "PC" because of how it is used (please don't say anything to make white people feel uncomfortable)

Ummmm...yeah I think I should be offended by this comment...

Just to clarify something for you..

It's not only White people that hate PC first of all..all races and creeds hate it.

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The WP deserves some props for this.

 

I've given them a hard time. Between their ridiculous article on 'sueing grandma', their editorial board making the announcement it did, the way certain writers behaved, and (the worst of all) the way they handled reporting Huff leaving the radio broadcast (that was just disgusting) I had grown to hate them. And to a certain extent, I'll never forgive them or forget about it, especially the way they used Huff as a pawn to try to embarrass the organization and in the process were just completely disrespectful to him...

 

But they ran this poll and released it despite us all knowing it didn't fit their agenda. Not only that, they put it on the front page. And then they released a second article about said article, going into depth to justify why their poll is an adequate representation.

 

I would have never expected that from them. Ever. So, props to them.

 

Completely agree with this. Very responsible journalism and quite admirable. 

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Polls should not tell you what you think of something. Make up your own mind. If you didnt have a problem with the name before and didnt think it was a slur, this poll shouldnt change your mind, and vice versa.

 

Right, but the poll should change your mind if you care about the opinion of the group that the name refers to. Which is the only opinion that should matter.  Whether I believe the name is a slur or derogatory is irrelevant, although I suppose I can form an opinion based on information I obtain.  This poll is critical.

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You need to re-read your history. :)

Democrats like Al Gore (and his wife Tipper) and Joseph Lieberman were some of the leading officials dragging Rock and Roll artists before Congress to complain about lyrics.

It was a bipartisan effort. :)

Yup...I remember a few metal songs dedicated to Tipper Gore and her parental advisory notes on albums...

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If Snyder wants to end this, he should open the checkbook. The sense I get from Native Americans is "who cares about a name, we have REAL problems, and we need help."

 

I'm not finding a solid number, but it seems like 5 million is a fair estimate of the number of NA's in the country. The name change battle is nothing but a battle of public opinion. Donate enough to make an actual difference to them and you'll win that battle. I think with only 5 million in population, it's feasible. You'll defend your trademark and have some actual positive press for once. 

 

(actually, who am I kidding about the positive press thing -- UnWise Mike will be holier than thou to the grave)

 

You hit upon the one thing in your ramblings ;) that this is really all about..... money.

 

Many of these "NA groups" simply want a ride on the "Redskins" gravy train. The team has exclusive rights to it.

 

If Snyder dropped the name today and totally disowned it legally, within a couple of years, you would see "Redskins" casinos popping up on NA land. :)

Yup...I remember a few metal songs dedicated to Tipper Gore and her parental advisory notes on albums...

 

Yeah, and it stretches to this day as I have heard several "**** you, Tipper Gore!" shouts on Eminem's music. :)

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/im-dropping-my-protest-of-washingtons-football-team-name/2016/05/19/b09e8e7e-1cfe-11e6-8c7b-6931e66333e7_story.html?tid=sm_tw

 

I’m dropping my protest of Washington’s football team name

 

It’s humbling to admit it, but Dan Snyder wins.

Washington Post poll has confirmed that the vast majority of American Indians don’t consider the name of Washington’s professional football team to be offensive.

Why should this bother me? After all, I’m a longtime, devoted fan of the burgundy and gold. A season ticket holder for more than a decade. Most of my fellow fans will feel relief and vindication that 9 out of 10 Native Americans judge the name to be innocent — just as team owner Snyder and the National Football League have said all along.

But I have also been a proud, outspoken member of the vocal minority of fans denouncing the name as a racial slur. Three years ago, I threw out all my gear — a jacket, shirt and car flag — that displayed the word “Redskins.” More important, for two years beginning in February 2013, I used my privileged position as an opinion columnist in The Post’s Metro section to press the team to change the name. I wrote 10 pieces on the subject before I gave up my column in early 2015. I try to refrain from using the team name in radio and TV appearances.

 

 

 

 

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If Snyder wants to end this, he should open the checkbook. The sense I get from Native Americans is "who cares about a name, we have REAL problems, and we need help."

I'm not finding a solid number, but it seems like 5 million is a fair estimate of the number of NA's in the country. The name change battle is nothing but a battle of public opinion. Donate enough to make an actual difference to them and you'll win that battle. I think with only 5 million in population, it's feasible. You'll defend your trademark and have some actual positive press for once.

(actually, who am I kidding about the positive press thing -- UnWise Mike will be holier than thou to the grave)

Um lol...Donate to a charity? Howzabout starting one up specifically to help Native Americans?

http://www.washingtonredskinsoriginalamericansfoundation.org

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