Larry Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 I have an experience that's similar, in some ways. I'm Native. My family's from Oklahoma. When I was 8, we moved to Illinois. My parents tell me that one day, I came home from school, in tears. We had to go back to Oklahoma. Right now. Seems that the students had been asking me about Oklahoma. And I had been forced to tell them that I had never seen an Indian. (Or a tornado). And that was when my parents told me that I am one. Although only a little. But that, for example, one of our neighbors was full Indian. They explained to me that lots of the people I knew, were Indian. (They also explained that my great-grandpa was a Teritorial Marshal, and that grandpa Lester raised horses for the Army). They just didn't act like the Indians in the movies. They didn't wear feathers or war paint. And they didn't greet people by holding up one hand and saying "How". They drove cars and wore shirts and spoke English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Helps the Skins in their fight to keep the name, though I'm not sure they wanted to fall back on "yeah its offensive but the court says we can keep it anyway." That's not what they have to fall back on. What they have is: it doesn't matter if it's offensive or not, you have no legal ground to do anything about it. Let them protest and boycott. We'll see how well that goes. It is their right, no one can stop it. But now they can't keep dragging the same tired arguments through the legal system drumming up worthless media coverage. Now they'll have to actually get people to protest and boycott the team. IE their best chance is waiting until the team is sold for some reason, and influencing the NFL to go with someone who would change the name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 i'm not going to embed the youtube video because it has strong language, but i like it so i'll put it as a link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diesel Hog Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 For some reason, I always have to read the comments section of articles. And I usually regret it. This one was interesting, though. I am Native American and I do find the term offensive. The thing that I hate about the term is that is perpetrates outmoded stereotypes. When I was a kid in school (growing up in Cleveland) I was called Chief Wahoo almost on a weekly basis. People are ignorant, especially if they are not in contact with or have exposure to the other cultures that they are spoofing in their team mascots. It is even worse with kids on the playground. This stuff bubbles up in schools and it does have an effect. Moreover, it is not so much how the team represents the image, it is how the fans of the team adopt it and use it. So many people running around with face paint and turkey feathers. That is all they know about Native American culture and it does not represent who we are today (or even who we were in the past). I am a doctor and I don't wear that stuff at home (as I have been asked previously by one of my ignorant classmates). But that is one of the results of keeping those absurd mascots and team names. Alot of things to say about that. He says the name is offensive. Then talks about chief wahoo. And perpetuating stereotypes, fans spoofing culture. Things that may be true of other fanbases or mascots - and much of it I might agree with - but aren't really true of the Redskins. Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Really?I think he meant overall, not that there aren't any fans who do that. Not sure if it's possible to determine what percentage of each fan base does it, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 I think he meant overall, not that there aren't any fans who do that. Not sure if it's possible to determine what percentage of each fan base does it, though. Well, you have to expect the name changers to cherry pick a few individuals, and pretend that they represent the entire group. After all, their entire schtick consists of cherry picking a tiny fraction of Natives who don't like the name, and pretending that they speak for the entire group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Really? Having been to countless games in my lifetime, ya. That doesn't mean there's not one in every crowd. (and I think you know that) Tomahawk chops, war chants, and other potential disrespectful actions are accepted and encouraged at many native themed sporting events. Those comments are reminiscent of the study that's often cited about native American mascots and self esteem, and goes on to talk about chief wahoo. No mention of the Redskins. BTW, diesel, you know the best place to buy imitation native headdresses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Really? <Idiot dressed as a NA> I am in full support of the name, and even I think this guy looks like an idiot. However, one idiot in face paint, and one opinion in a comments article are not a majority. It's abundantly clear this is not a black and white issue--there are many who support the name, and many who oppose it. The endless redundant cycle of repetitive arguments is starting again, so I'll come back in when there is actual news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diesel Hog Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 To be clear, the name doesn't bother me at all. I don't want it to change. But let's not pretend that the Redskins have their share of idiot fans that dress up and disrespect NA culture. Sure it's a minority, but there seem to be a few at almost every game. That's the only point I was trying to make. Our fans are just as guilty as other sports teams that use NA mascots, and exploit the culture by dressing as a caricature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 The endless redundant cycle of repetitive arguments is starting again, so I'll come back in when there is actual news. The new ruling is actual news, at least lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 What's different about our team is we do not do the tomahawk chop or have a cartoonish logo like the Cleveland Indians or Atlanta Braves alternate logo. I think the tomoahawk chop is more offensive in that you have thousands of people playing Indian while using a stereotypical representation of native chanting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedBNG Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Rejected by the ComPost's editorial board... http://redskinshogheaven.com/2015/the-letter-from-a-navajo-redskins-fan-the-washington-post-does-not-want-you-to-see.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 Rejected by the ComPost's editorial board... http://redskinshogheaven.com/2015/the-letter-from-a-navajo-redskins-fan-the-washington-post-does-not-want-you-to-see.html I can't vouch for Mark Yellowhorse Beasley, but, i like the fact that he stuck to the irrefutable facts, discussing things like the annenberg poll and ray halbritter. i did come across this article, mentioning mark beasley, just now which might be one of my favorites- http://supportthename.info/posts/1410505/blackhorse_becomes_flustered_when_cause_questioned_during_9_person_protest.html BLACKHORSE BECOMES FLUSTERED WHEN CAUSE QUESTIONED DURING 9-PERSON PROTEST I usually don’t write these articles from the first person because the story is not about me. The story of the name-changers is about a few rabble-rousers who reside in the back pocket of one land-thieving casino baron, Arthur Raymond “Ray” Halbritter, or as those of us who understand his power play like to call him, Ray “Pay Day” Halbritter. Halbritter uses the campaign to boost his own self-importance, shake down the teams that tribute Native Americans for money and wash Native Americans from the national consciousness, so he can steal more land from them, as he has done to Oneida Indian Nation Inc. Halbritter even turned the nation into a corporation and rules it dictatorially as its self-declared CHIEF executive officer. The story of the 90 percent or more Native Americans who support the Redskins name, and all the sports teams that honor their heritages and impacts on this land, is about pride and recognition on a continent they founded, yet suffer social and economic inequalities more than other ethnic group on it. And that is what I approached Halbritter front woman and shameless self-promoter Amanda Blackhorse to discuss on Dec. 7, as she and eight others protested the Kansas City Chiefs outside University of Phoenix Stadium. My first question for Blackhorse, after I shook her hand and introduced myself was, “I understand we disagree on the Redskins topic, but how is ‘Chiefs’ racist?” Because it’s a mascot, she answered. more from the article.... The next day, I spoke to former Navajo Chairman—the nation’s first elected chairman— and Code Talker President MacDonald and told him how she called him ignorant, uneducated and accused him of taking bribes from Snyder. To the issue of Snyder paying him, MacDonald said Snyder has paid the Navajo and several other nations by establishing scholarships for aspiring college students and licensing Native jewelers to use NFL trademarks on their pieces, opening a huge new market for their creations. MacDonald, 86, laughing, pointed out he is neither an aspiring student, nor a jeweler. On being called uneducated and ignorant about Native issues by Blackhorse, MacDonald said, “Maybe I’m uneducated on what she thinks racism is if that’s what she wants to call those of us who have fought the real battles, the real causes, from poverty, to self-determination. Our people really need her help on these issues.” MacDonald adds, “I think she’s trying to divide people, Native people and the people who are trying to promote the good name of Native Americans.” definitely worth a read. again, when it comes to the comments, peoples motivations eventually are revealed. this gem of a woman was among the most vocal, and, unfortunately for her, the most incorrect- Robin LadueNo, you ignorant moron, redskin did not refer to the way they painted their faces.it referred to the bouny paid on the scalps and skins of slaughtered Native men, women, and children...funking cons never get justify right...they're just too dumb to read or learn... oh, the irony, ms ladue..... she was corrected by an astute fan just named tom gordon just a few posts below. no response from ms ladue, predictably. she also calls a fan a 'racist' for supporting the name 3 posts in and cites the since proven bogus "67% natives offended" study just after that. anywho, apparently, among the commenters was one of the 4 fans that were part if the jon stewart ambush (which also let the oft repeated above claim go unchecked) Former four-time Navajo Chairman and current Navajo Code Talker President Peter MacDonald Sr., left, and 100-year-old Navajo member Henry Lane. Redskins Pride goes back a long way with Native Americans, despite claims by paid "activists" seeking money and notoriety by decrying Native American tributes by sports teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diesel Hog Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 Good stuff, thanks for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAILstorm Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 I think in 2016 we will see a full court press from the changer activists right before their "movement" dies for good. The Redskins just wrapped up a playoff bid (they're always "offended" when the team wins but when we suck they're silent), it will possibly be the last year of a Democrat White House, from whom they are getting a bulk of their support, and they were just dealt a huge blow in the Federal Circuit Court of Appeals in the Slants case where striking down government rejection of trademarks is unconstitutional. And as with anything these days in the U.S, money talks, BS walks. I don't see how the changers can keep putting up this fight against a multibillion dollar franchise like the Redskins with the NFL on their side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I think its safe to say that there is no consensus in the Native community. I've heard natives say they've been called the name as a slur and I've heard Natives say it's not a slur. Whereas the N word is 100% agreed upon as a racial slur. I'm not an activist, I'm not going to protest but I'm not going to lose sleep if/when the name changes. I don't think this issue is going away...ever. Until then, I will support the team I love no matter the name or mascot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 It's always been safe to say that I believe. Several have been saying that,(including me),in this thread for awhile. To what degree,(or percentage if you will),the lack of consensus is a bit of a debate and will be for some time,(Yeah I know duh). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 For those going to the game this weekend, just an FYI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 What? Amanda Blackhorse is full of ****? She insults her own people by calling the LARGE number of them who disagree with her ignorant? Ray Halbitter, the gambler and exploiter, funds her bull**** for his own gain? Well, who woulda thunk it? oh, that's right. Anyone paying even the slightest bit of attention. That's who. Noticing how quiet the name changers have become since the court ruling. Just goes to show,, the nature of bull**** is to dry up. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I also think it's a huge Fail to put herself on the rally poster. She's making this all about her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I also think it's a huge Fail to put herself on the rally poster. She's making this all about her. Technically, she's just admitting what's been obvious to anyone who ever listened to her. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornaSkinsFan83 Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 **** me...for some sick, twisted, self-hating reason I decided to check UnWise Mike's twitter account to see what he had to say about us winning the division. In reply to a fan talking **** about us winning and linking him to our fight song: @DINONETRADIO let's do it. "Hail to the Racialslurs...hail insensitivity...Caucasians on the towpath, fight for inequality..." Great song. I'm not linking that ****. He's easily second on my list of people I want to punch in the face (only behind fugitive affluenza teen in Texas) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 The poster threw me for a loop...I had no idea people still used AOL. Primarily I agree with Bang. This woman is an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Idiot,, i don't know. Exploiter? Yes. Liar? Certainly Manipulator? Hell yes. Anyone still buying her crap?If so, that's the idiot. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Evidente Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 **** me...for some sick, twisted, self-hating reason I decided to check UnWise Mike's twitter account to see what he had to say about us winning the division. In reply to a fan talking **** about us winning and linking him to our fight song: I'm not linking that ****. He's easily second on my list of people I want to punch in the face (only behind fugitive affluenza teen in Texas) He is so desperate. He knows the battle is lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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