The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)

[grego]

I never said Redskins could or couldn't be used as a slur or that it could be used, like many words, multiple ways.

What I said was that textbooks in college media classes have started saying the word Redskins is a slur and that teachers have started advising their students to avoid using it.

 

 

daveaki-

 

both redskin and oreo are defined in dictionaries as slurs because dictionaries dont get involved with defining proper nouns. so, despite essentially everyone in the united states thinking of the football team, or the cookie, websters has to give you the non-proper-noun definition, no matter how rare it may be.

 

i would venture everybody in this forum has heard the term oreo used as a slur, while only 2 posters, by my count, have claimed to have heard redskin used that way.  

 

both terms have completely benign, non racist origins, yet, here we are. 

 

per your last sentence, i wouldnt use the word redskin to refer to an actual native american unless he asked to be referred to that way, but i would have no problem using it to refer to a player for the team. i would follow the same logic with oreo (though i probably wouldnt refer to someone that way even if they asked me to).

[daveakl]

Grego, 100% agree with everything you said.

[skinsmarydu]

daveaki-

 

 

oreo

I named a cat a racial slur, lol? Seriously?

Coulda sworn it was a cookie.

Holy cow. I gotta get out more.

[daveakl]

I named a cat a racial slur, lol? Seriously?

Coulda sworn it was a cookie.

Holy cow. I gotta get out more.

That's about what we expect from Duke fans.

[skinsmarydu]

That's about what we expect from Duke fans.

What? Staying in and learning?  

[RFKFedEx]

The battle rages on in Cleveland. 

 

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2015/04/13/video-protesters-fans-clash-cleveland-indians-opening-day-159989

[grego]

The battle rages on in Cleveland. 

 

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2015/04/13/video-protesters-fans-clash-cleveland-indians-opening-day-159989

 

being that the indians logo is a caricature, i'm not surprised theres a controversy.

 

a couple of things from the link- i didnt think the guy with the nats "W" with the redskins colors hat did the best job of explaining his position (its an "unintentional celebration of manifest destiny", "logos are trophies", the awareness that we apparently have today of the genocide of native peoples means NA logos are wrong)- lots of colorful, flowery language, very little substance, imo.

 

the old guy with the red white and blue headdress who said he was part apache (maybe he is, who knows) said he got the headdress from a navajo reservation in new mexico. i have no doubt this is the case, as things like that are sold on reservations.

[Salistala]

You "just go ahead and change it" guys crack me up lol..."It's inevitable", "I'm tired of hearing about it"...you really think these are good, sound reasons for re-branding a hugely successful enterprise? Seriously?

 

 

Despite being in the "change the name" camp I agree with Califan. Don't change the name simply because you can't bear another day hearing that the name is offensive and that is just too exhausting bearing the burden of false accusations of racism. Change it because you understand some people sincerely find the word, name or associations denigrating and offensive and that outcome is incompatible to your sense of integrity.

 

If you feel the "change the name" camp is by and large a bunch of whining, complaining, PC spewing herd of idiots without any valid reason to feel offended then continue to hold to your position. Just quit complaining that they are making you feel uncomfortable, or irritable, or unwilling to enjoy your team's history or next campaign.

 

I feel uncomfortable, and sometimes irritable, reading some comments from the "keep the name" camp. Sometimes I'll take a break and work on other things, but I'll always return and I'll never change my stance.

 

So many defeatist and quitter attitudes in this thread. ..some of you should listen to Churchill's speach ........

"We shall never give up and never surrender"

 

Really? You're comparing the "keep the name" debate to the British facing almost certain defeat to an evil fascist dictator? Wow, you're really stretching for pariah status.

[Xameil]

Really? You're comparing the "keep the name" debate to the British facing almost certain defeat to an evil fascist dictator? Wow, you're really stretching for pariah status.

Or how about you take it for what it was...a silly comment to a dumb ass silly topic..

"Lighten up Francis"

Tell ya what...I'm going to go and listen to my Native American friends who see the name as an honor..and not the ramblings of uninformed and attention whores

[Simmsy]

Check out the huge banner on the HuffPo sports page, they're trying to hard for attention.

This State Might Be The First In The Nation To Ban 'Redskins' School Mascots

California, home to the largest number of American Indians in the country, is for the third time considering legislation that would end the use of “Redskins” as a school team name or mascot.

If the legislation passes and is signed by Gov. Jerry Brown, California would become the first state in the nation to ban the use of “Redskins” as a team name or mascot in public schools, according to the Washington, D.C.-based National Congress of American Indians, founded in 1944. Many Native Americans consider the term a racial slur.

So, apparently this came from a place called edsource, has anyone ever heard of that publication?

[Xameil]

Check out the huge banner on the HuffPo sports page, they're trying to hard for attention.

This State Might Be The First In The Nation To Ban 'Redskins' School Mascots

So, apparently this came from a place called edsource, has anyone ever heard of that publication?

Yeah..I think I'll read that as I drink a sip from a gallon of water then dump it on the ground..how ya like that California...

Maybe if your government worried more about water then a ****ing mascot you'd be able to solve that problem first

[grego]

Check out the huge banner on the HuffPo sports page, they're trying to hard for attention.

This State Might Be The First In The Nation To Ban 'Redskins' School Mascots

So, apparently this came from a place called edsource, has anyone ever heard of that publication?

 

from the link- 

 

If the legislation passes and is signed by Gov. Jerry Brown, California would become the first state in the nation to ban the use of “Redskins” as a team name or mascot in public schools, according to the Washington, D.C.-based National Congress of American Indians, founded in 1944. Many Native Americans consider the term a racial slur..................

 

.................

 

Just four California schools continue to use “Redskins” as a team name and mascot: Calaveras High School in Calaveras County, Chowchilla Union High School in Madera County, Gustine High School in Merced County and Tulare Union High School in Tulare County.

“We love our mascot,” said Ron Seals, superintendent of Chowchilla Union High School District. The school mascot is an Indian chief known as “Reddy Redskin,” he said.

“I’m not disputing the fact that it’s offensive to some, but I’m not calling you a Redskin,” he said. “We call ourselves Redskins.”

------------------------------------------------------------------

its worth noting that one of the former presidents of the national congress of american indians was responsible for designing our logo.

 

and 3 of those 4 high schools that use 'redskins' as a mascot are majority hispanic/latin american, fwiw.

[Major Harris]

I've literally had students tell me it's ok for me to use it.

.

Yah, go ahead and take their advice, let me know how it turns out for ya.

[pjfootballer]

A few months ago, the Charlotte Observer here where I live declared they would no longer put Redskins in print. They did well for a while, but I've seen it at least a half dozen times now. I get the Friday to Sunday paper.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

A few months ago, the Charlotte Observer here where I live declared they would no longer put Redskins in print. They did well for a while, but I've seen it at least a half dozen times now. I get the Friday to Sunday paper.

 

Why we won’t use ‘Redskins’

 

"Charlotte Observer sports editor Mike Persinger announced Saturday that the Observer will avoid using the name Redskins when referring to Washington, D.C.’s NFL football team.

 

For the Observer’s sports department, this is no small decision. Just a half-dozen other newspapers have adopted such a policy, and the Observer is the first in a city with a significant Washington fan base..." - Charlotte Observer, September 8, 2014

 

 

Redskins hire Barry as defensive coordinator

 

"The Washington Redskins hired Joe Barry as their new defensive coordinator on Tuesday. Barry spent the past four seasons as linebackers coach for the San Diego Chargers." - Charlotte Observer, January 20, 2015

 

 

Utah tribe leader accused of taking improper Redskins gifts

 

"A Utah tribal leader is facing removal from office, accused of taking improper gifts from a Washington Redskins foundation amid controversy over the team's name. The Paiute Indian Tribe of Utah is expected to decide in the next 10 days..."  - Charlotte Observer, April 2, 2015

 

"404: Page Not Found" - Charlotte Observer, April 30, 2015

[Riggo#44]

Why we won’t use ‘Redskins’

 

"Charlotte Observer sports editor Mike Persinger announced Saturday that the Observer will avoid using the name Redskins when referring to Washington, D.C.’s NFL football team.

 

For the Observer’s sports department, this is no small decision. Just a half-dozen other newspapers have adopted such a policy, and the Observer is the first in a city with a significant Washington fan base..." - Charlotte Observer, September 8, 2014

 

 

Redskins hire Barry as defensive coordinator

 

"The Washington Redskins hired Joe Barry as their new defensive coordinator on Tuesday. Barry spent the past four seasons as linebackers coach for the San Diego Chargers." - Charlotte Observer, January 20, 2015

 

 

Utah tribe leader accused of taking improper Redskins gifts

 

"A Utah tribal leader is facing removal from office, accused of taking improper gifts from a Washington Redskins foundation amid controversy over the team's name. The Paiute Indian Tribe of Utah is expected to decide in the next 10 days..."  - Charlotte Observer, April 2, 2015

 

"404: Page Not Found" - Charlotte Observer, April 30, 2015

 

More evidence this is nothing more than posturing to give the appearance this issue matters to more than a very, very few select group of people--Blackhorse, Harjo, Halbritter, etc.

 

Unfortunately, it will get ignored by the Kardashian Kulture

[tshile]

Despite being in the "change the name" camp I agree with Califan. Don't change the name simply because you can't bear another day hearing that the name is offensive and that is just too exhausting bearing the burden of false accusations of racism. Change it because you understand some people sincerely find the word, name or associations denigrating and offensive and that outcome is incompatible to your sense of integrity.

While I agree with your point, do you understand the frustrating position you've put people in?

 

There is a group of people that have been beaten over the head (figuratively speaking) about being racist/supporting racism/however you want to describe it, that have finally had enough and said - Fine, I'm sick of it, please make it so these people are happy and I can go about enjoying my football team without having to deal with this. And now they're going to be chastised for not sticking to their beliefs? So they can be beat over the head some more?

 

Convictions are all well and good, but for some people this has turned into a verbal berating of them for simply enjoying a football team they grew up around and want to continue to enjoy supporting (however they choose to do that.)

 

I'm not quite in that camp, but from where I sit it's likely the only way of this going. The name-change crowd beating down the rest of us until we simply just want to stop associating our beloved football team with accusations of racism. It's really becoming tiring.

 

To think that even then I'll still have to listen to it is very frustrating. There literally is no winning here.

 

It's becoming obvious that we must complete, and sincerely, change our view on the situation and adopt "their" view else continue to be beaten over the head about it. It doesn't matter that I've never used the word as a slur, or that the word means a football team to me WAY more than it means a slur for native americans. How I've used it, how I've thought of it, is completely irrelevant and not deserving of any respect anymore. Only how a select group of people have used it or thought of it. Anything else is wrong/irrelevant/racist.

 

This seems to be the standard these days for social issues in this country. It's frustrating. Especially when it creeps out of politics and into being a fan of a football team, something that I (personally) would rather keep separate from politics/contentious social issues.

[s0crates]

More evidence this is nothing more than posturing to give the appearance this issue matters to more than a very, very few select group of people--Blackhorse, Harjo, Halbritter, etc.

Unfortunately, it will get ignored by the Kardashian Kulture

As an academic, I can tell you you are wrong to say only a select few people care. Many of my colleagues, if not most of them, feel like the name should be changed.

Specifically, I have a friend in Anthropology specializing in Native American studies. He thinks the name should go. Another friend specializes in diversity education, she says I'm a fan of the Washington R-words. These are just a couple examples. I find their attitude is more the rule than the exception among academics.

[Xameil]

As an academic, I can tell you you are wrong to say only a select few people care. Many of my colleagues, if not most of them, feel like the name should be changed.

Specifically, I have a friend in Anthropology specializing in Native American studies. He thinks the name should go. Another friend specializes in diversity education, she says I'm a fan of the Washington R-words. These are just a couple examples. I find their attitude is more the rule than the exception among academics.

And yet the attitude of a majority of the Native Americans is to keep it...I'll go with them over the "academics"

[s0crates]

And yet the attitude of a majority of the Native Americans is to keep it...I'll go with them over the "academics"

Perhaps . . . Although it may be more accurate to say the majority think it isn't a priority than it is to say they think we should keep it.

Truthfully a new poll is needed on that front . . . The Annenberg poll is old and flawed.

Anyway I was responding to the false claim that only "a very, very few" people care.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Perhaps . . . Although it may be more accurate to say the majority think it isn't a priority than it is to say they think we should keep it.

Truthfully a new poll is needed on that front . . . The Annenberg poll is old and flawed.

 

 

It's more accurate to say the majority don't really care one way or another.

 

And while the Annenberg poll may be flawed in areas, those flaws aren't enough to make 90% of the respondents respond in a manner that says they're ok with the Skins remaining the Skins. I'm not sure you would have gotten 90% of Redskins fans to say that lol...

[Larry]

Perhaps . . . Although it may be more accurate to say the majority think it isn't a priority than it is to say they think we should keep it.

Truthfully a new poll is needed on that front . . . The Annenberg poll is old and flawed.

I'd say that "old" is true.

"Flawed" is more a case of "If I try real hard, I can find things to complain about".

 

Anyway I was responding to the false claim that only "a very, very few" people care.

By citing anecdotal stories from two people, who are representatives of a tiny segment of the population, hand picked to be the strongest followers of one side of the issue, on the planet.

 

Professors of Native American studies, and diversity education?  Let me go see if I can talk to two founding members of the Tea Party. 

 

[Xameil]

Perhaps . . . Although it may be more accurate to say the majority think it isn't a priority than it is to say they think we should keep it.

Truthfully a new poll is needed on that front . . . The Annenberg poll is old and flawed.

Anyway I was responding to the false claim that only "a very, very few" people care.

Lol listing off a couple of teachers who want the name change does not debunk "the very very few care" perspective...and of course it's flawed...because you disagree with it.

[grego]

Truthfully a new poll is needed on that front . . . The Annenberg poll is old and flawed.

 

 

 

every time i see this, i'm just going to repeat "bull****"

[Captain James]

I don't know if any of you watch the show "Grimm" on NBC, but there was an interesting scene a couple eps ago. So apparently a Native American student was being harassed at his school, by bullies who were putting "racist" signs on his locker like "Redskin" and what not. Of course the scene immediately stood out to me as a fan of our team. I don't know if it was any kind of intentional slight, but it amazes me that I'VE NEVER heard of any real life scenarios like that. Pure fiction.