Califan007 The Constipated Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I think if we were winning, there would be far fewer fans that are tired of the name debate. What a horrible barometer to use for "winning"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bliz Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 You "just go ahead and change it" guys crack me up lol..."It's inevitable", "I'm tired of hearing about it"...you really think these are good, sound reasons for re-branding a hugely successful enterprise? Seriously? I think inevitability is a perfectly good reason, from the business perspective. As you alluded to in another post, all it takes to force the name change is one major sponsor. Just one to say, we're going to get in front of this issue, we care deeply about respecting all peoples, and therefore we can no longer be a part of this blah blah blah we're out. Then watch the dominoes fall, just like what is happening right now in Indiana. The question is how likely that is to happen, and when. You can bet that Snyder is all over that. He has relationships with top execs at the major sponsors. They won't just blindside him with a pullout. So let's say Fed Ex is talking to Snyder about how concerned they're getting, and he sees the writing on the wall, and believes it is highly likely they would back out from sponshorship in 2-5 years. What major corp is going to take the PR hit to step into their place, given their reasoning for backing out? If the hypothetical options are, change it today, vs wait for a bunch of sponsors to pull out in 2-5 years and only change it then, changing it now is the easy choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I think inevitability is a perfectly good reason, from the business perspective. As you alluded to in another post, all it takes to force the name change is one major sponsor. Just one to say, we're going to get in front of this issue, we care deeply about respecting all peoples, and therefore we can no longer be a part of this blah blah blah we're out... [...]The question is how likely that is to happen, and when. You can bet that Snyder is all over that. He has relationships with top execs at the major sponsors. They won't just blindside him with a pullout. Yeah, that will never happen as long as profits are tied to being a sponsor of the Redskins. Shareholders care about their dividend checks far more than they care about "getting out ahead" of an issue that most in the USA don't give two ****s about. There would have to be a building outrage over the name in the general public at large first, which has been nowhere near close to happening. And it's like you said...Snyder, nor any of the major sponsors, are approaching this issue the way fans are. They both have a lot of intel that we don't...Snyder will know well ahead of time if any major sponsors are starting to consider dropping their sponsorship, and most likely already knows the pulse of his sponsors. Hell, Goodell and the NFL probably knows this info as well, because this is NOT just a Redskins issue. So let's say Fed Ex is talking to Snyder about how concerned they're getting, and he sees the writing on the wall, and believes it is highly likely they would back out from sponshorship in 2-5 years. What major corp is going to take the PR hit to step into their place, given their reasoning for backing out? If the hypothetical options are, change it today, vs wait for a bunch of sponsors to pull out in 2-5 years and only change it then, changing it now is the easy choice. We can say that in a "What if" exercise, but there's no evidence or proof it's happening. So saying "It's inevitable" remains a silly reason for advocating a name change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 So many defeatist and quitter attitudes in this thread. ..some of you should listen to Churchill's speach that's before iron maidens aces high. "We shall never give up and never surrender" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 So many defeatist and quitter attitudes in this thread. ..some of you should listen to Churchill's speach that's before iron maidens aces high. "We shall never give up and never surrender" That's an awesome song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I am tired of hearing about it, and I don't care an ounce if it's a big giant profitable corporation, they don't send me a single penny. i have one connection to it, i love the team. I love the tradition of the players and the thrills they have brought me. I suspect i still would given a new name. I wouldn't like it, i would not get rid of my redskins gear, (which, is thin beyond some t-shirts and hats. i absolutely will not spend money on jerseys of players who can't last here. I have a few old ones, but they're only for the most special of occasions. I will still refer to them as the Redskins when discussing the past and former players. As far as it's harming Snyder or cutting into profits, i could not care less about that aspect of it. Mostly, i'm just tired of loud and stupid misinformed herds yelling and screaming all the ****ing day long about every god damn little thing under the ****ing sun. There is no point in continuing to get a headache fighting ignorance. Kardashian Kulture never listens, just yells. I watch football to give myself a break from all the crap, even though the Redskins offer me they're own brand of crap and stress, it's not so bad that i'd ever consider giving up my Sundays of it. So if people think changing this name will fix anything, yay for you. Call them the ****ing Candy Canes if it will make you feel better. Just shut up. I want to watch the game, and that is ALL I want. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 If you stop fighting ignorance, then ignorance wins... But hey.."it's got electrolytes" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Ignorance won. A long time ago. reason has been fighting against it for thousands of years. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Ignorance won. A long time ago. reason has been fighting against it for thousands of years. ~Bang So did prejudice and racism, as it requires ignorance to survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Was it over when the Germans bombed pearl harbor" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soup's Uncle Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I agree with what Bang said. And...Washington Candy Canes has a sweet ring to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 So did prejudice and racism, as it requires ignorance to survive. yeah, but this is just football. It's entertainment. The morons will not learn, and they will not shut up. they will not be reduced in number and shunted off to society's corners like prejudicial and racist people. Facts do not matter, and will not magically matter tomorrow. Reason does not matter, and the herd will not suddenly have an epiphany and come to understand anything. This is a tabloid issue. It's as important to anything as Bruce Jenner's botched sex change operation, and Khloe's idiotic makeup faux pas. If the AP decides not to use it, so what. I just don't give a crap anymore. Here is a visual representation of how much any life will change over this. ----> . Except maybe Snyder's, and again, I don't give a crap if he loses money. Maybe he'll have to sell the team. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Perception creates a slur. How do you factually argue that a word with a growing perception as a slur is not a slur? How long is that argument true? If enough people perceive it to be so, it is. The arguments that "redskins" is a slur will make itself true if repeated often enough and to enough people. That's why I see this as inevitable. It's not going to stop and the media is embracing it. It will just keep repeating to a national audience.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Perception creates a slur. How do you factually argue that a word with a growing perception as a slur is not a slur? How long is that argument true? If enough people perceive it to be so, it is. The arguments that "redskins" is a slur will make itself true if repeated often enough and to enough people. Don't really "like" this, but agree with it. Whether something is offensive, is entirely within the mind of the audience. When Natives said that the name wasn't offensive, then, as far as I'm concerned, the argument is over. It's not offensive. by definition. But, when people start to feel that it is offensive? Then it is. And, frankly, the vast herd, out there? After several years of this "debate", they haven't heard the facts that we keep pointing out. All they've heard is a long and ever-growing list of celebrities announcing that "It's offensive". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 BTW, the fact that most folks aren't hearing the news from "our side"? That's the reason why I suggested that another poll might be a good idea. Assuming that the percent of Natives who aren't offended is still very large, (I'd assume 80%), then when that poll comes out, it's news. It will get covered. And people (some of them) will hear from "our side". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I can see the point of fans of the team that want to keep the name. I can see the point of fans of the team who are "indifferent" to changing the name. Most of these fans are the ones who would love for all of this to go away and keep the name, but can see the point of changing the name and they feel that it will inevitably happen, but not going out of their way to advocate a change. But for the life of me, I can't see the point of a fan "of the team" actually going out of their way advocating the team change their name, starting grassroots organizations to get it done or even taking the approach of what some of the media is doing by eliminating the nickname from their life. I'm not saying they are any less of a fan than I am, but it just seems very hypocritical of someone to form that stance. I think if I thought in any way that the name was so harmful to me personally, I'd change teams. But that's just me. I'm not telling anyone what to do or who to root for, but if the name gave me that much grief in my life, I'd get a new team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Paint Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I didn't realize people outside of Mike Florio and UnWise Mike were still interested in this topic. Even Skip Bayless seems to have cooled off and still uses the word "Redskins" every time he talks about the team. It seems to me that this has lost a lot of steam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonez3 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Meh- I agree with Califan, I don't hear about it till I open this thread. In fact, I gotta open it to see what the news is. If its such a big deal, I gotta say not alot of people even know or care. We'll see, don't get the feeling 'we' are losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I think if we were winning, there would be far fewer fans that are tired of the name debate. Typically when the team is winning...the debate comes out of the woodwork. This guy liked your post and is one of the biggest. He is not even Native. Shows me something more about where he stands. Anyway, as a Native American...I am still in awe that certain people are trying to continue this nonsense. Bang (JT), my man, all these years...I need a Blue Christmas T-Shirt ( I know a few guys that can make them for you ). I will likely rock my Redskins gear forever if they change the name. It is not about money. It is about standing up for what is right. Snyder is right. Ugh, I hate getting caught up in this one. All my years...as a Native, never been called a Redskin (nor any of my family). Never heard anyone else called that either unless it was about the football team. It's a pretty sad that some of our own fans want to change the name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 It's a pretty sad that some of our own fans want to change the name.I'm outta likes. Great post, even tho I only quoted part of it. Hail, sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I'm outta likes. Great post, even tho I only quoted part of it. Hail, sir. Thanks young lady. You know... I want to tell some of these folks to grow a pair. When people start folding and accepting that this is inevitable... makes me think of what history tells me about so many other situations where people just tried to accept something they knew wasn't right. **** just ended up worse. No thanks, I will wear my gear and dare people to call me racist, and educate the younger folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soup's Uncle Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 If stuff like this keeps happening... http://deadspin.com/paiute-tribal-leader-faces-impeachment-for-taking-redsk-1694978644?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow Then Snyder is going to have to change the name. It's starting to roar back up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I get the 'we must stand up to ignorance' argument. But this isn't important. this is not a 'real world' issue. this is tabloid bull**** riling up tabloid people. Used to be they were a lot fewer in number, but now the ignorance is overwhelming. In fact, this is an escape from that which is important that I have to deal with during the rest of the week. And all the intrusions of real world complaining and grandstanding just to whine... it's draining my interest, draining my joy. I ask you, what is there to fight for? To make the herd shut up? Not going to happen. Ever. To make the herd understand fact? Not going to happen. Ever. to make the herd listen to a counter-argument with logic and fact on it's side?Never going to happen. Ever. Bang quit football because it's getting to be too much bull****?Getting more and more likely. So if i am giving up, so what. I am looking at giving up one of the things that has caused me considerable joy and excitement, simply because i am tired of the bull**** from the loud and ignorant. So, in the interest of preserving that which I enjoy as a recreation, something that should have no bearing in the real world, something i can watch to relax and tune out the problems of the real wordl.. something i can enjoy unto itself with zero connection to how it will ever affect me beyond the thrills from my sofa.. i choose to try and find whatever joy is left that I can without being too sick of the constant complaining and crying by every living ****ing thing with the slightest problem. Tired of the whining. Tired of the ****ing. There is NO peace. EVERYthing is a ****ing issue anymore. I'm tired of it. Constant complaining, no matter what there is, there is some loud jerkoff who is complaining. And of course, now i'll have to listen to people **** that I am giving up the ****ing. I find myself simply sick of having to debate every minuscule iota of everything with people who complain. Constant confrontation, constant bickering over EVERYTHING. My middle finger is fast becoming my favorite answer to any of it.. Baseball looks better and better every year. Now get off my lawn. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofSparta Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Baseball looks better and better every year. ~Bang If you're gonna switch to baseball over this, just try to forget that Cleveland has a team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 If you're gonna switch to baseball over this, just try to forget that Cleveland has a team... Just like most baseball fans? Hey, folks. I'm here all week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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