The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)

[Predicto]

Hey everyone, another skins and I put together an online petition suggesting we need to stop wasting resources on this non-issue. There's a lot of clear evidence this isn't really an issue to the impacted culture. FCC commissioners and congressmen need to be working on other topics that matter. Who knows if it will do any good but if you're up for putting your name down if we get a decent response we'll be sending it on to whoever we can.

http://signon.org/sign/no-change-to-the-name?source=c.url&r_by=7559392

Also, started a FB page around the topic, if you're into that kind of thing.

https://www.facebook.com/keeptheredskins

HTTR

Honest question - if a team name change is a non-issue, why invest resources in petitions and facebook pages fighting the name change?

*ducks and runs*

[nuposse87]

Why not just change it to Washington Warriors? Keep the same logo..maybe make it a few shades lighter...and be done with it? I never rooted for the skins because of their logo/design/mascot, they're the home team...names are just arbitrary, probably why I wouldn't be mortified if they did end up appeasing the masses. I almost want them to do it just so people can stop the hoopla over it.

[Predicto]

Why not just change it to Washington Warriors? Keep the same logo..maybe make it a few shades lighter...and be done with it? I never rooted for the skins because of their logo/design/mascot, they're the home team...names are just arbitrary, probably why I wouldn't be mortified if they did end up appeasing the masses. I almost want them to do it just so people can stop the hoopla over it.

I really don't think anyone cares about the logo or the Native American imagery. 99 percent of the complaints are about how the word "Redskin" generally is considered an offensive way to refer to Native Americans. All the dictionaries agree.

Regardless of whether it was intitially intended to be a slur when the team started, regardless of whether we intend it that way as fans of the team, regardless of whether you can draw a conceptual distinction between "redskin" in reference to football players and "redskin" in reference to actual Native Americans, ultimately this problem remains. The term "redskin" has passed its historical due date and gone sour, just like the terms "wench," and "fag" and "colored boy" and so on.

I don't see how the problem is going to go away.

[BKSkinsFan]

This site gets confusing at times, a thread about the Redskins name goes into the tailgate, yet stickied in the stadium is a thread about a tailgate party. :silly:

(Yes I'm just being a sarcastic arse)

[Predicto]

This site gets confusing at times, a thread about the Redskins name goes into the tailgate, yet stickied in the stadium is a thread about a tailgate party. :silly:

(Yes I'm just being a sarcastic arse)

"Arse" is no longer an appropriate word. Use "booty." :silly:

[BKSkinsFan]

"Arse" is no longer an appropriate word. Use "booty." :silly:

Touche .. well played sir.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

What pisses me off is that this wasn't an issue until we started winning.

With Zorn and Cerrato, no one gave a ****

[RFKFedEx]

ARGHHHHH!!!!! Why don't these jerks get over it?! The Redskins have been the teams name for close to a century. Just get over it and use some of their time and money to solve some real problems.

A lot of people had the same attitude toward civil rights activists in the 1950-60s.

[bedlamVR]

Time for your monthly "lets change the Redskins name instead of actually focusing on important issues" update.

Name proposal change by DC City Council from Redskins to Redtails, in honor of the Tuskegee Airmen.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/conversations/_/id/9230556/dc-pol-suggests-redtails-name-change-washington-redskins

Yeeaaah that is a great idea ... except that the Redtails were the epitome of bad taste and shows a degree of ignorance .

In WWII there were a number of African American or Negro divisions - they were generally given the less than glamorous roles - even though the Chanute Field in Rantoul, Ill.,was not segregated this was simply down to economics because of the relatively few black American airmen that were trained . Even so the 'red tails' were often given less than glamorous roles - driving trucks wielding shovels and moping floors - despite being trained combat pilots .

Sure the 'redtail' story was an inspirational one in retrospect and could be one of the pivotal changes in the bigger changes in the civil rights movement that followed in the 50s and 60s but at the time it was very derogitory - it was what others called the Tuskegee Airmen once they started painting the tails of their planes red ... they called themselves “the Lonely Eagles” in reference to their isolation as a result of segregation and discrimination.

So yeah change the Redskins name far a name that is REALLY offensive ....

[Predicto]

Yeeaaah that is a great idea ... except that the Redtails were the epitome of bad taste and shows a degree of ignorance .

In WWII there were a number of African American or Negro divisions - they were generally given the less than glamorous roles - even though the Chanute Field in Rantoul, Ill.,was not segregated this was simply down to economics because of the relatively few black American airmen that were trained . Even so the 'red tails' were often given less than glamorous roles - driving trucks wielding shovels and moping floors - despite being trained combat pilots .

Sure the 'redtail' story was an inspirational one in retrospect and could be one of the pivotal changes in the bigger changes in the civil rights movement that followed in the 50s and 60s but at the time it was very derogitory - it was what others called the Tuskegee Airmen once they started painting the tails of their planes red ... they called themselves “the Lonely Eagles” in reference to their isolation as a result of segregation and discrimination.

So yeah change the Redskins name far a name that is REALLY offensive ....

No, Red Tail is a name that WAS derogatory when originally given, but has become acceptable or even a badge of honor today. Kind of like "yankee" or "tar heel." Which is why no one today would have a problem with it.

In fact, it's kind of the opposite of what has happened to the name "redskin." That name was not intended to be insulting when given, but has become derogatory in modern usage, so some people have a problem with continuing to use it.

ps - I think Red Tails is a weak choice, just so it's clear...

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

I always likes the Washington Monuments as an alternative.

[Bang]

Was this really necessary, Bang?!

Last I checked, it wasn't Republicans crying about how they are (GASP!) "horrified and offended" (/GASP!) by the name and demanding its change. That's what Liberals do! I think Bob Griffin even touched on this in his tweet yesterday.

Touchy touchy!

dumbin' it down and counting on ignorance is certainly not the republicans M.O. at all. My mistake, dontcha know.

~Bang

[Renegade7]

If the name is changed, the only one I think I can stomach is the Washington Warriors. Washington Redtails sounds more like the New Orleans Pelicans...smh...

---------- Post added May-1st-2013 at 09:19 PM ----------

People do realize that the the name was changed in Boston back in 1933 to honor of Head Coach William Henry Dietz...or by his Sioux name; Lone Star Dietz...

A lot of people don't like facts when it interferes with their view on a topic...

[grego]

Predicto, I must live under a rock cuz I'm still not aware of how it's now become derogatory.

I do know there are native Americans that don't see it that way, so I do wish qualifiers would be used for the sake of clarity and to and let the facts be the facts.

It's such a tired subject. One that people get emotional about so I'm not sure what the purpose of even arguing about it is.

regarding the imagery, you said that 99% of the complaints were about the name and not things like the chief on the helmet. i cant put a # on it, but i would bet thats off by quite a bit. for example, the junkies had a guest on who was a rep from a native american organization (cant recall the name of either, but its posted here somewhere) and she was opposed to ANY use of native american imagery or names, even 'warriors'. i have read plenty of complaints about the team and it goes deeper than the name with many of those who claim to be offended.

the whole being offended thing is really something i dont get. i'd like to make a list of things that people claim to be offended by, and then propose we appease those people and see where that gets us. i say this because i believe harjo and her ilk and those kinds of people- people who are incredibly sensitive about things that most others are not. shes fringe, and appeasing the fringe opinion is the wrong answer, imo.

walter wetzel said the same thing- people are who are offended are radicals, not the mainstream.

[thebluefood]

Here's something I'm not understanding. Back in the 1990s, American Indian groups were up in arms about Cleveland's Chief Wahoo and the Braves' Tomahawk Chop. That's when both teams were winning pennants. Now that they haven't been winning, especially the Indians, I haven't heard a damn thing about it and Chief Wahoo was way more offensive than our logo ever was.

[88Comrade2000]

All I will say about the name change is that it isn't a matter of if the name changes but when?

When the Redskins make the superbowl :point2sky; this will come to ahead. Obama will call for a name change. One way it could happen would be that Congress will bring pressure on the NFL to change the name but saying if they don't change it; the NFL will lose it's antitrust exemption.

Or it will become financially beneficial for Snyder to change the name.

The name change will happen; as long as the fans can chose the new name that will be fine with me.

[HogNose]

"Braves" is the only name I would be okay with.....at least it is part of the history.

[Forehead]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I like the tradition of the name, but I root for my city, not for a team name. The important part to me is the "Washington" part. I don't want to have the name changed, but I'd be find with Warriors. I like alliteration, and (I've said this before to) we would have to demand that the team get the rights to footage from the Warriors movie, specifically this scene.

I'm sorry, but if they broadcast "Warriors....come out to PLAYIIIEYAYE!!!" over the big screen followed by the team bursting out of the tunnel, I would lose it. That would be awesome.

[RFKFedEx]

regarding the imagery, Predicto said that 99% of the complaints were about the name and not things like the chief on the helmet. i cant put a # on it, but i would bet thats off by quite a bit.

I tend to agree. Some people view our unauthorized use of Native imagery as theft of cultural identity.

When the name change happens for the B&G, the team will need to wipe the slate clean of all Native themes. If we preserve any of the Native imagery, this problem will just linger and eventually grow to a point where we'll have to change again in 10-20 years. Changing the name to Warriors would only be a band aid fix.

[SkinsWarrior81]

I tend to agree. Some people view our unauthorized use of Native imagery as theft of cultural identity.

When the name change happens for the B&G, the team will need to wipe the slate clean of all Native themes. If we preserve any of the Native imagery, this problem will just linger and eventually grow to a point where we'll have to change again in 10-20 years. Changing the name to Warriors would only be a band aid fix.

How is it unauthorized and who would "authorize" it? The last I had checked, it was the Native American council that asked the Redskins to change the logo to a native warrior and further the cause of native culture in the public eye.

What is specifically racist is the continuation of the misuse of the word as a derogatory slur with zero context and zero correction; then using that ignorance as a way of eliminating the most visible symbol of Native American culture in the world.

Why do people want to erase the memory and visibility of Native Americans from the public eye so badly?

There is no intent on discrimination, malice, or racism here. This is a small group of people looking for a pay day and using pop culture guilt as a way to get it. The Washington Redskins need to take a more aggressive stance against the consistent ****ization of the term by the public and media. It is disgusting that we have turned what was once a cultural identifier and proud representation of Native peoples into this side show distraction for the sake of finding something to be angry about. The white washing of history is seriously disturbing.

[Soup's Uncle]

I am not for changing the name, but part of me is just so tired of hearing about it, if they did it, I couldn't argue b/c of the racial aspect.

I'd be down with something like Washington Warpath. You keep the colors, you keep the same attitude.

Redtails sucks. Everyone would joke about "Their tails are red cus they got spanked". It figures my wife lets me create my Redskins man cave in my house and the name change debate is heating up.

But in order to keep the fight song, it would sound best to keep the name two sylables. "Hail to the Warpath"...even though they say "Braves on the Warpath" would sound kind of awkward.

Change the name and use the spear logo.

[HogNose]

But in order to keep the fight song' date=' it would sound best to keep the name two sylables. "Hail to the Warpath"...even though they say "Braves on the Warpath" would sound kind of awkward.

Change the name and use the spear logo.[/quote']

Braveskins would work. "Hail to the Braveskins, Hail victory..."

Incorporates the original name and the current name.

Btw, where did this whole "Warriors" thing come from? Braves is a logical choice if there ever was a change.

[RFKFedEx]

How is it unauthorized and who would "authorize" it?

Its unauthorized bc of what the public knows about history today, as opposed to the 1930s when the Native theme and imagery were born with the franchise. Its too late to get approval from a Native org. today. The PR damage has been done in the grand scheme of 21st century history bc we now know better.

What is specifically racist is the continuation of the misuse of the word as a derogatory slur with zero context and zero correction;

I wouldn't say "zero". There have been dozens of credible Native and non Native parties voicing their disapproval in recent decades.

There is no intent on discrimination, malice, or racism here.

I agree. None of us mean harm when we celebrate Native imagery through our football team. But as many lawyers will tell you, 'its not the intent, but the event' that matters before the court. In this case its the court of public opinion.

This is a small group of people looking for a pay day and using pop culture guilt as a way to get it.

But that small group has been growing since the 1970s. They now have major national media outlets and countless educational institutions on their side. Aside from our fellow fans, we have nobody on our side but a couple of local talk radio hosts and a team blogger.

The Washington Redskins need to take a more aggressive stance against the consistent ****ization of the term by the public and media.

The team has already attempted damage control by running a story on all of the HS teams who still use the name Redskins and relevant Native themes. The measure to show support for our franchise only provided additional fodder for the critics.

[Taylor4Life]

"Braves" is the only name I would be okay with.....at least it is part of the history.

I feel the same way. They would also need to keep the logo exactly the same, and burgundy and gold would have to stay. If they change the name to something else, change the logo and the colors, then it is the not the same team. I would not be a fan of whatever franchise comes next, I'm serious.

[grego]

How is it unauthorized and who would "authorize" it? The last I had checked, it was the Native American council that asked the Redskins to change the logo to a native warrior and further the cause of native culture in the public eye.

What is specifically racist is the continuation of the misuse of the word as a derogatory slur with zero context and zero correction; then using that ignorance as a way of eliminating the most visible symbol of Native American culture in the world.

Why do people want to erase the memory and visibility of Native Americans from the public eye so badly?

There is no intent on discrimination, malice, or racism here. This is a small group of people looking for a pay day and using pop culture guilt as a way to get it. The Washington Redskins need to take a more aggressive stance against the consistent ****ization of the term by the public and media. It is disgusting that we have turned what was once a cultural identifier and proud representation of Native peoples into this side show distraction for the sake of finding something to be angry about. The white washing of history is seriously disturbing.

skins, thats one of the most well written, concise posts regarding the name that i've read. nicely done.

Its unauthorized bc of what the public knows about history today, as opposed to the 1930s when the Native theme and imagery were born with the franchise. Its too late to get approval from a Native org. today. The PR damage has been done in the grand scheme of 21st century history bc we now know better.

rfk, i have to disagree here. i dont know what the 1930s has to do with a prominent native american asking the redskins to put a chief on the helmet because the team wasnt native american enough.

people who are pro name change keep saying the name either always has been derogatory, or has become derogatory since 1933. i just havent seen the evidence of that- i just see people repeating the same line that its a slur. when its said enough, it apparently becomes fact, much like the 'facts' in this article http://listverse.com/2009/02/04/top-10-fascinating-facts-that-are-wrong/ or this one http://www.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/everyday-myths/10-false-facts.htm

this gets repeated over and over again, til it becomes 'fact'. when i look into it, i can find very little evidence of the name as a slur.

i dont know about you, but when i take a close look at who's complaining about the name, while native american high schools continue to use this 'obvious slur' as their mascots, i become skeptical.

The team has already attempted damage control by running a story on all of the HS teams who still use the name Redskins and relevant Native themes. The measure to show support for our franchise only provided additional fodder for the critics.

im not sure i've heard this. but i do think its relevant. when it comes to native american high schools, it shows that, at the very least, there is wide disagreement about the name. combined with the best survey we know of, it shows that the vast majority dont see the name the way our beloved district leaders do, who say the name gives DC a bad rap. (not the crooked, crack smoking politicians, mind you. its the name 'redskins')