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The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)


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So glad I brought up the Oreo thing.

 

With all of my other posts in this thread...I think that one connected with the most people.

 

Thanks guys.

It's a great analogy, isn't it?

Like the word "colored" with reference to black people, the word "Redskin" with reference to Native Americans has fallen out of favor. It is now deemed offensive by every dictionary I can find. No one uses it anymore except a football team.

Why did you have to put the phrase "with reference to Native Americans" in your sentance?

Could it perhaps be because your sentence boils down to "when used in an offensive manner which nobody uses any more, then I'm right"?

"If you restrict the discussion to only allow offensive uses, then the term is universally agreed to be offensive".

The term "Oreo", when used to refer to a person, is offensive (and racial). Does that mean that the term "Oreo" is universally recognized as a racially offensive term, and should be banned from our language? Or does it mean that the term "Oreo", 99% of the time, is used to refer to a trademark name for a brand of cookie, but if you wave a wand and pretend that those 99% of usages don't count, then the term is always offensive?

:)

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call a black person an "oreo" or call a team "Oreos" with a black person in a 3-piece suit and see what the reaction would be from the black community.

Also, why dont people understand its not about you but about that community of people?

 

I am confused about the fact you do not understand people are NOT being called Redskins.

 

Besides the football team/players and the experience from ONE poster in this thread...I mean, have you EVER heard someone called a Redskin ?

I will repeat that not one member of my family has ever been called that.

 

What don't you get ?

 

Not to mention being called an Oreo is offensive to ...wait for it...white people too.

 

Ugh.

It's a great analogy, isn't it?

:)

 

Nice. I must have missed that one. haha. Thanks man.

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Ugh.

Don't say that.

Stereotype. :)

Nice. I must have missed that one. haha. Thanks man.

I've also expressed the point that the word "boy" can be a racially offensive term, too.

And suggested that everybody who is demanding that The Boy Scouts change their racist organization's name, form a line to the left.

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isnt that contradictory? on the one hand, youre saying there are no illegitimate reasons to be offended. on the other, youre saying they should use legitimate arguments.

 

You have just bought a one way ticket to Larryland.

 

Not to mention being called an Oreo is offensive to ...wait for it...white people too.

 

 

This Oreo thing is really dumb. Also, who calls white people Oreos?

 

it's all over once the FCC bans the name

 

Yea.

 

I can't see that happening though.

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Because I'm a jag-off, Larry. And I know my pointing out the contradictions of your reactionary liberalism being confronted by your knee jerk defense of the name frustrates you.

And you decided that following up a personal attack with several more was the way to go.

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Sadly, I'm confident the name change is going to happen when the FCC approves because just like any department in the government, they have nothing better to do. NFL cannot allow a football team to be censored, forcing Snyder to fold. When we do change names, I want a name that has nothing to do with native indians, animals or washington. Get new colors. Distance overself as far away from the natives as we can get.

 

I'm tired of fighting this issue because it doesn't matter if the majority of people don't mind it and that there isn't concrete evidence of it being offensive, it only matters to a select few who has nothing better to do.

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And you decided that following up a personal attack with several more was the way to go.

 

This is a personal matter for a lot of people (not me, because I am actually a robot). And this thread is 200 pages of everyone attacking the personal motivations of everyone on every side. I don't think me pointing out that you are visciously attacking people you would probably be defending if you were a Browns fan is a "personal attack." It's an exploration of motivations - which you and Bang do to someone on every single page of this thread.

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This Oreo thing is really dumb. Also, who calls white people Oreos?

 

 

Point over your head. Completely.

 

White people are not called the N word or Redskin either.

 

However, the N word is decisively offensive to most.

The term Oreo is typically said to someone of mixed race White and Black.

 

You don't see how that would be offensive in today's society, but you see how Redskins would ?

 

haha. Talk about dumb.

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 It's an exploration of motivations - which you and Bang do to someone on every single page of this thread.

 

 

this is actually, for some reason, fascinating to me. peoples motivations, that is. 

 

i'm not sure why. 

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This is a personal matter for a lot of people (not me, because I am actually a robot). And this thread is 200 pages of everyone attacking the personal motivations of everyone on every side. I don't think me pointing out that you are visciously attacking people you would probably be defending if you were a Browns fan is a "personal attack." It's an exploration of motivations - which you and Bang do to someone on every single page of this thread.

quote the post on this page in which I "visciously attack" someone.

Feel free to go back a few pages, if that makes it easier for you to support the lie your making.

Feel free to go back through the entire thread, if you'd like.

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Something to take into consideration is the Native American influence in football.  The first president of the American Professional Football Association (later the National Football League) was Jim Thorpe (Sac and Fox Nation).  At one point he was probably the greatest athlete on the planet too.  Think about that for a moment, that is 1920?  He was replaced after  a year, because he still wanted to play and coach.

 

I haven't looked too deeply into the influences (other than names) Native Americans had in sports, but The Boston Braves (baseball) at one time had Jim Thorpe on their team.  He also played for a football team called the Indians.  So, I would wonder what he'd be saying if he were still alive and dealing with some jerk billionaire like Halbritter.  Well, not sure if Halbritter is a billionaire... he doesn't let folks see his figures and he's got privacy so whatever.  He owns lots and lots of land, casinos and has been CEO of the Oneida Nation since the mid 1970's...

 

Fun.  

 

 

I imagine he might say something to the effect of, "Who the hell cares?   Lets just go play Football..." but who really knows?

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Point over your head. Completely.

 

White people are not called the N word or Redskin either.

 

However, the N word is decisively offensive to most.

The term Oreo is typically said to someone of mixed race White and Black.

 

You don't see how that would be offensive in today's society, but you see how Redskins would ?

 

haha. Talk about dumb.

 

 

An Oreo is a cookie first and foremost. A redskin was always a Native American. (Except when it was a potato. Hey....here's an idea....let's make the mascot a potato. And then change the really offensive word in the name.....Washington. Hey-yo).

 

Your silly Oreo argument is like arguing that no one should be named Tom because "Tom" is offensive word to black people. That is completely contextual.

 

Aside from the ridiculous "Redskins should be defined in the dictionary as a professional football team in Maryland" argument from the perpetually aggrieved Larry, redskin means a Native American in all non-potato related contexts. (And you cannot make the argument that it is not related to a Native American when the logo is what it is).

 

Regardless, my discomfort tends to be with all-native themed names and imagery because I find cultural appropriation troubling in a general sense. And I do think Chief Wahoo is the most egregious current image. I'm not sure why Redskins is  the #1 cause here aside from the fact that the NFL is bigger than MLB and Dan Snyder is a dick.

 

quote the post on this page in which I "visciously attack" someone.

Feel free to go back a few pages, if that makes it easier for you to support the lie your making.

Feel free to go back through the entire thread, if you'd like.

 

I don't really want to.....

Edited by Lombardi's_kid_brother
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I don't really want to.....

You really can't.

Because the claim you made about me isn't true.

Still, I suppose you're making progress. You seem to have figured out that trying to conceal an untrue claim, by making even bigger untrue claims, doesn't work.

Baby steps.

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You really can't.

Because the claim you made about me isn't true.

Still, I suppose you're making progress. You seem to have figured out that trying to conceal an untrue claim, by making even bigger untrue claims, doesn't work.

Baby steps.

 

Ah, you have indeed won the Internet today. Good job.

 

You may have bested me this time, old foe. But I shall be make. With nonsense that you can never hope to counter. Do you hear me?!?!? I'll be back!!!!!!!

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No, I said that no reasons are needed.

"It offends me" is a complete sentence. No further clarification is needed.

However, "it offends me, because the sun orbits around the Earth" doesn't help your side's argument. And people WILL point out that no, it doesn't.

 

 

I actually agree with this position.   However, "You are in the minority." is also a complete sentence and it seems to me that this is where this issue stands.   Do most Native Americans actually find this offensive or not?   IMO, an independent, totally unbias study would go a long way towards settling this matter.  The problem is, this is a political football issue and there are a lot of folks involved who are trying to drive a political agenda.   The American people know this and so, I think they are very hesitant to support any action that forces a person, who has spent their own time and money to build something, into a course of action that is across purposes of traditional values in this country and could potentially be detrimental to a persons investments or business.  The key would be to have a completely impartial study done and then make a decision, based on the findings.

 

I mean, you can never force Danny Boy to change the name of this team unless he wants to, nor should you be able to force that.   However, a good study of what the actual opinions of Native Americans in this country would go a long way towards a name change.   If most Native Americans actually do find it offensive, then it is my opinion that none Native Americans will probably fall in line with that and the eventual economic implications would force a change.   I mean, lets face it, this is really more about brand and money, on behalf of Danny and the Redskins so if you impact that, that's the best possible way to force a change and what's more, it's the right way to do this. 

 

However, if most Native Americans don't find it offensive, then the majority of Americans won't support it and it will actually hurt the value of the team so there is no way Danny is going to change it.   Why would he, that's just stupid.  The key or "trick" is to get good hard data on the issue that is not influenced by driven agenda IMO.

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To fight for people that are as a majority not offended by the name or to stir the pot more ?

 

If you recall I am Native.

 

Apparently, so is everyone else in the DC Metro area. I think I'm the only person on this thead without a claim to Native ancestry.

 

(Oooooohhhhhh.....I bet that gets interpreted as a "personal attack." How dare I be so bold and impetuous and condescending and, um, bold and obnoxious and rude? Do I have no decency?!?!?! Do I?!??!)

Edited by Lombardi's_kid_brother
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Sadly, I'm confident the name change is going to happen when the FCC approves because just like any department in the government, they have nothing better to do. NFL cannot allow a football team to be censored, forcing Snyder to fold. When we do change names, I want a name that has nothing to do with native indians, animals or washington. Get new colors. Distance overself as far away from the natives as we can get.

 

I'm tired of fighting this issue because it doesn't matter if the majority of people don't mind it and that there isn't concrete evidence of it being offensive, it only matters to a select few who has nothing better to do.

 

 

Who really knows but in my personal opinion, I don't think there is any way the Federal Government will force this.   I think it would be political suicide.  

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Then don't.

 Because there are lots of names white people are not called and I did not want to go through the list to explain why they are offensive to the majority of white people.

Actually, on the topic of WHY something may be offensive (or not)?

To me, it really boils down to whether I think the speaker INTENDS it to be offensive.

Somebody uses the n-word, and I figure that's pretty convincing evidence that the speaker intends it to be offensive. I figure nobody, now days, uses that word ACCIDENTALLY. But, having said that, if the context makes it clear that that's not the case, (say, in Blazing Saddles), then nope, it's not offensive. (To me).

OTOH, somebody uses the word in ordinary conversation, and then says that well, he's not intending it to be offensive? And I conclude that he's a liar.

To me, it depends on the speaker's intent. (Well, more accurately, my opinion of the speaker's intent).

----------

Now, having said that?

Other people's feelings are involved, too.

Show Dan Snyder a hypothetical poll that says that 90% of Natives are offended by the name? Then, IMO, if he keeps using it anyway, then that's proof that he intends to offend. He's been informed that he's offending people, and he's doing it, anyway. (Maybe offending them isn't his PRIMARY motivation. But he's absolutely saying that he DOESN'T CARE if he offends).

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An Oreo is a cookie first and foremost. A redskin was always a Native American. (Except when it was a potato. Hey....here's an idea....let's make the mascot a potato. And then change the really offensive word in the name.....Washington. Hey-yo).

 

Your silly Oreo argument is like arguing that no one should be named Tom because "Tom" is offensive word to black people. That is completely contextual.

 

Aside from the ridiculous "Redskins should be defined in the dictionary as a professional football team in Maryland" argument from the perpetually aggrieved Larry, redskin means a Native American in all non-potato related contexts. (And you cannot make the argument that it is not related to a Native American when the logo is what it is).

 

Regardless, my discomfort tends to be with all-native themed names and imagery because I find cultural appropriation troubling in a general sense. And I do think Chief Wahoo is the most egregious current image. I'm not sure why Redskins is  the #1 cause here aside from the fact that the NFL is bigger than MLB and Dan Snyder is a dick.

 

 

Ok, so you made an edit. Let's see...

 

Have you not read the thread ? Redskin was a term created by US. ( Not as in the U.S.) We called ourselves Redskins to be called Redskins.

Perhaps you didn't understand the racial tensions that existed then and now, but I find Oreo more offensive than most words.  

 

Tom is not offensive, Uncle Tom is. However if you are called a Tom...I think it means snitch these days...hmmm...

 

What does Larry have to do with me ? This is one of the few topics I even agree with him about.

 

Are you seriously coming at me with the potato thing ? haha.

 

Re-load and get back to me, I can't stop laughing long enough to even read the rest.

Edited by Kosher Ham
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