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The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)


Alaskins

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it is frankly amazing to me that you people cannot come to grips with the fact that it is NOT a slam dunk that the name isn't "offensive", for the simple reason that ofensive isn't a definable term... it is a feeling.

The argument isn't that the name can't be offensive. Like you said one cannot control how one feels about a word - any word. People can take offense to anything they want to take offense to.

What is a slam dunk is that the name is not a slur . The offended party cannot determine what is and is not a slur only an offending party can determine that. (The Redskins wasn't invented as a slur and was never commonly used as a slur).

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This is the less than PC answer but Let's face the music guys.  The evidence points to something greater than a simple name change.  The powers that be that belong to the Democratic party are simply exercising their authority because they have all of the power right now.   They are on a binge of some sorts to fundamentally change the way things operate here in America, and so far they are being successful in accomplishing all of these goals without any resistance.  

 

If the name changes,  this will be more further proof of their power and it will not stop there.   They will want FULL control over every business and every way of life (started with this new Affordable Health Care Act) until everything is completely under control and we will have no rights.   

 

Yes, this issue is much bigger than a simple name change.  

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This is the less than PC answer but Let's face the music guys.  The evidence points to something greater than a simple name change.  The powers that be that belong to the Democratic party are simply exercising their authority because they have all of the power right now.   They are on a binge of some sorts to fundamentally change the way things operate here in America, and so far they are being successful in accomplishing all of these goals without any resistance.

Right. That's why they confiscated all our guns and bibles, two years ago.

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I've been going to Redskins games for nearly 30 years and I've never seen anyone in a head dress other than Chief Zee and the marching band.

 

I've had seats in section 114 since 1997...

My family had seats in section 112 at RFK from 1960-1996...

 

I've seen a headdress at every game I've ever been to and that's not including Zee and the band.

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Yea- Carey just has an air of douchey about him... Just an opinion on someone I never met. But the 'I have Native American friend' bit, reminded me of the old 'I have slot of fiends who are black'.

You can 'respect' the guy for the way he went about it. But a comment like that, TO ME, has douche written all over it.

Just seems like a guy I personally would not want to hang atound

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Yea- Carey just has an air of douchey about him... Just an opinion on someone I never met. But the 'I have Native American friend' bit, reminded me of the old 'I have slot of fiends who are black'.

You can 'respect' the guy for the way he went about it. But a comment like that, TO ME, has douche written all over it.

Just seems like a guy I personally would not want to hang atound

Man you have no idea... But it is what it is. lol
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Mcsluggo-

When you say you haven't seen halbritter, what are you referring to?

As far as the slam dunk the name isn't offensive, I would say this- it's a slam dunk the name isn't offensive in certain contexts. (One being the the way it's used by the team).

It's also a slam dunk that if a non NA said to a NA something like "dirty redskin", they are using a benign word in a disparaging way.

That part of the issue is simple- context determines meaning.

When someone wants to claim offense where obviously none is intended, that's when it gets murky.

The other side of that slam dunk are people saying it "is" a slur no matter what. You agree that's unfair to say as well?

 

i don't think its a slam dunk either direction.  The people whining for a name change act as if it is a slam-dunk,  and the people that are whining in support of the name act as if it is a slam-dunk....  

 

... but there is a reason that there is an on-going debate about this.   If the team had been named something truly offensive (the washington sand-n****rs, or whatever, the issue would've resolved years ago, and if it was the washington rottweilers, nobody would notice)... debates happen where issues are not resolved.

 

 

my point in saying this, is that people that LOVE the name SHOULD have the most incentive to keep the discussion cordial and COMPLETELY focused on the rah rah positive.   We all know that there are some positive feelings from some native americans on the issue, focus on that .....  but the screaming vehement posts to that effect aren't helpful, and pretending like there is a native american consensus on the issue isn't true. 

This is the less than PC answer but Let's face the music guys.  The evidence points to something greater than a simple name change.  The powers that be that belong to the Democratic party are simply exercising their authority because they have all of the power right now.   They are on a binge of some sorts to fundamentally change the way things operate here in America, and so far they are being successful in accomplishing all of these goals without any resistance.  

 

If the name changes,  this will be more further proof of their power and it will not stop there.   They will want FULL control over every business and every way of life (started with this new Affordable Health Care Act) until everything is completely under control and we will have no rights.   

 

Yes, this issue is much bigger than a simple name change.  

 

i will ONLY respect this post if you are writing it while sitting on top of a giant pile of munitions in a an abandoned under ground bunker or missile silo.  

Edited by mcsluggo
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Yea- Carey just has an air of douchey about him... Just an opinion on someone I never met. But the 'I have Native American friend' bit, reminded me of the old 'I have slot of fiends who are black'.

You can 'respect' the guy for the way he went about it. But a comment like that, TO ME, has douche written all over it.

Just seems like a guy I personally would not want to hang atound

 

 

I get your opinion, I never really liked him as an official either. I will say though that very rarely is the "My best friend is black" defense pulled out when someone did something in solidarity with that community. I think there's a bit of a difference here.

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What is a slam dunk is that the name is not a slur . The offended party cannot determine what is and is not a slur only an offending party can determine that. (The Redskins wasn't invented as a slur and was never commonly used as a slur).

 

people in here keep saying that as fact.... but it is clear that the issue isn't clear.  

 

1) I don't believe that the name was intended to be offensive ---- but it is clear that it was created in a very different time period, when people gave a helluva lot less attention to whether or not they were offending people***  

 

2) it clearly IS sometimes used as a slur.

 

neither of these are "aha-gotcha!" moments against the name... but don't pretend like its a slam dunk that the name isn't a slur, either.     

 

 

 

 

 

***  and in case anyone is wondering-- i am stating that as a negative aspect of our past.  

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As a Christian I find the celebration of The New Jersey Hockey teams name, Mascot offensive they are promoting his evil work

 

Well then I hope the owner of the twitter account that recycles tired jokes decides to file a suit and build up grassroots support if it bothers them so much.

Edited by EvilMonkeyBoy
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Here is my problem McSluggo. The name change people have had DECADES to come forth with evidence that the "vast majority" of Native Americans have a problem with the name like they claim. They haven't done it and don't think they havent tried to get the same poll/survery results that the team has. You just don't hear about it because their results are mostly likely the same as we see whenever there is a poll about the issue. 80-90% in favor of the name. When there is a poll done with Native Americans, on ESPN, wherever, the results are always the same. If those polls were ever close to being even, i would say ok we should change the name. But they aren't. But still the name change people say its the "vast majority" which has proven to be outright false.

 

Now you have the left wingers that control most of the main news media and have people that have their opinion seen, read and heard by millions speak out against the name so it seems most of America is against the name. It's disgusting and an illusion. Just a few minutes ago on PTI i had to listen to Peter King say there is some huge blowback about the name, where is this huge blowback? A few commentators that are in the pocket of the Oneida tribe? Of course they are, NBC has a big boxing contract with them. This whole thing is ridiculous and a line needs to be drawn right now, right here with these PC people because they will just keep trying to change everything until they are stopped. Don't even get me started on not being able to wish people a Merry Christmas when the underlying message is just wishing someone well. It's time to put an end to this PC crap.

 

About Carey, Ill say what i said about Dungy and Costas... he should have been fired long before he retired. If he let something like a name influence his decision on whether or not he could officate a game fairly, whose to say that he didnt have other personal opinions that might have effected the way he called a game. Maybe he didnt like Tom Brady so threw more flags against New England. We have no way of knowing but what we do know now is that it was possible his personal opinions could of had an effect on the way he called a game. Until the name change people can come out with some sort of evidence that backs their claims other than "It's offensive to me and the other 10% of the people we have been able to find", the owners and the NFL should put an end to this. That evidence isn't coming though if they haven't produced it by now. Show us this "vast majority" you speak of and maybe you'd get us to change the name. Until then, I hope Snyder holds on for dear life.

 

*Disclaimer* I dont care for the right side of the aisle either.

Edited by Zazzaro703
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I get your opinion, I never really liked him as an official either. I will say though that very rarely is the "My best friend is black" defense pulled out when someone did something in solidarity with that community. I think there's a bit of a difference here.

Yea- he's not necessarily in 'solidarity with community' here. He's in minority in EVERY poll conducted.

His stance to me is simple. 'I went about it in respectful fashion, thus my view is right. Hey, I have NA friends'.

Sorry man, he provides nothing more than an anecdotal approach and provides no compelling evidence that its 'offensive'.

Edit: further, I agree with Zaz, if your that freakin fickle that a name offends you or prevents you from officiating... He shoulda been excused from his post. Pretty weak

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I see everyone championing Mike Ditka's take on the Redskins name. But let's be real for a second, is anyone going to take a guy seriously that traded his ENTIRE draft for Ricky Williams?

And also coached a team to a Super Bowl victory, let's not forget that. :)

Besides, who are we to take seriously on the other side? Peter King? The guy who said Danny Wurffel (sp) would throw for 4000 yards and like 25 TDs one year in the NFL (when Spurrier was an NFL coach)? Who said Art Monk didn't deserve to be in the Hall of Fame?

Please. :)

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I see everyone championing Mike Ditka's take on the Redskins name. But let's be real for a second, is anyone going to take a guy seriously that traded his ENTIRE draft for Ricky Williams?

Although, I think it can be argued that the trade for Herschel Walker was equally stupid. So it's possible that Ditka is only tied for worst draft trade in history.

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Although, I think it can be argued that the trade for Herschel Walker was equally stupid. So it's possible that Ditka is only tied for worst draft trade in history.

And that is amazing in and of itself.

I like the Ditka though, if only for the reason that he backs the name.

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This is the less than PC answer but Let's face the music guys.  The evidence points to something greater than a simple name change.  The powers that be that belong to the Democratic party are simply exercising their authority because they have all of the power right now.   They are on a binge of some sorts to fundamentally change the way things operate here in America, and so far they are being successful in accomplishing all of these goals without any resistance.  

 

If the name changes,  this will be more further proof of their power and it will not stop there.   They will want FULL control over every business and every way of life (started with this new Affordable Health Care Act) until everything is completely under control and we will have no rights.   

 

Yes, this issue is much bigger than a simple name change.  

 

 

This is shtick, right?  

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